Shouting..

[Iwonder08]

My DH constantly shouts at our toddler. I tell him off every time, but the shouting continues. Until our little one became a toldder I've never ever heard my DH shouting. He never shouts at me, but with the toddler he constantly loses his temper.
He is very hands on, realistically we split everything to do with the little one 50/50 and it was always like that. Toddler has wahtight be called typical little tantrums, occasional stubbornness and misbehavior, but it is honestly not bad.
I know DH is sleep deprived as our son is going through a terrible sleep regression stage, been like that for the last 6 months.. Work is tough for both of us etc. I can understand the root cause of his short fuse, but this constant shouting worries me.
Our son adores his dad, my DH is amazing with him.. Apart from occasions when the shouting occurs. There is no physical violence of any kind.

I am fully aware I can leave the bastard, but I would like to try to fix things first if it is at all possible. It is literally the only problem and everything else is very good.
Any advice would be appreciated

Is he aware he is shouting at your toddler? How old is your child - I found the year between 1 and 2 a complete nightmare but it did improve after that.

This cannot be fixed. What makes you think you can at all fix this?. This is who he is and he is shouting at his child. How can you at all describe him as an amazing dad, he is frightening your son. You cannot protect your child by you and your son remaining under the same roof as this man so you and your husband now need to be apart.

Child is 2.5. To answer @attilaTheMeerkat I actually think I can protect my child better if we are under the same roof. Based my research I wouldn't get a sole custody because of shouting. The sole custody is normally if there is more serious abuse or danger to a child. What exactly am I going to achieve if DH will end up having our son 50% of time unsupervised where I can't stop his shouting or do anything about it.

Better for your son to be with you solely some of the time rather than for your son to be subjected to his shouty father 24/7 which is what is happening now.

You cannot protect your own self, let alone him currently as things are.

What makes you think that such a man too would want his child part of the week given that he cannot control his own self around his son?. Such men see children as an encumbrance. He resorting to shouting is unacceptable and what makes you think he will not start on you?.

He may well demand half the week or some such time also as a way of punishing you and as an attempt to regain control.

When does the shouting occur? Does he try to play/discipline/instruct/manage first but get frustrated? Is it exasperated shouting because he is out of options? Or is he furious and intimidating, and it's triggered by very little?

Shouting is absolutely damaging but could potentially be stopped if he's willing to put in the work - does he need alternative techniques to manage behaviour and head it off in the first place?

The fact that he is doing it constantly and continuing even after you have asked him to stop is a huge concern.

That's not being an 'amazing dad'.

Have you tried getting advice from a charity that support parents? Your partner needs to learn coping mechanism to deal with stress and frustration.

I would have a serious conversation with him and make it clear that you expect him to stop and seek help that this is a deal breaker. If he is no willing to do that, put your child first and leave.

Shouting occurs when the little one refuses to stop something he shouldn't be doing when asked several time, like throwing things for instance. Or general misbehavior which is not stopped after saying no several times. You can imagine these things happen often at this age. I always tell him to stop shouting and he stops, but by this time my son gets upset and cries. When I attempt to talk to my DH about shouting he gets very defensive and tells me I am consistently too soft and a pushover. It is literally the only source of arguments.
These outbursts dont happen every time there is a trigger but often.
Just to complete the picture and to answer some of the questions: I am 100% sure he is not controlling, he never raised his voice to me and I am certain there is no danger of physical violence. It feels more of anger management issue which frankly doesn't make it better.

if DH will end up having our son 50% of time unsupervised where I can't stop his shouting or do anything about it

But isn't the whole point of your post that you are not able to stop it right now anyway?

Telling off your husband doesn't stop his behaviour damaging your child's developing central nervous system. You're not protecting your son from that.

Does your husband shout at other people? Or just tiny defenceless children?

I always tell him to stop shouting and he stops, but by this time my son gets upset and cries.

So you're not protecting him because the harm is already done. Let's at least be honest about the starting point - despite your efforts, harm is occurring and your husband is refusing outright to stop causing that harm.

Does your husband exhibit the same "anger management" issues with adults who can defend themselves or only his small child?

OP - this sounds like your DH is struggling. Can you step in and take your little one away when your DH starts shouting to give your husband time out to calm down Parenting can be tough and when sleep deprived it is easy to have a short fuse.

Have you tried talking to your husband at a different time to when your husband is shouting. I imagine if you try to talk to him then, he will be too stressed to listen. Offer strategies for coping - maybe share tips about what works if your toddler is misbehaving. Does distraction work etc.

It's hard. I'm sure your DH is a great dad he's just having a hard time.

My DH is exactly the same. I think it's partly the way he was brought up. I never even heard him shout before our kids got to a certain age.

TBH i think DH has undiagnosed autism to a certain extent - same as DS - so basically has the same triggers.

I've got no advice. Sadly I'm in the same boat. I don't really want to walk out over shouting. Irony is, our daughter now pays zero attention and won't do as he asks - the more he shouts the more she ignores him. He is slowly slowly starting to understand that shouting doesn't work!

But i'm the same as you in that I think i would rather be here and help to curtail it, rather than split up and not have a clue what's been said (shouted) when i'm not there. That, frankly, would be far more worrying and far more damaging.

I'm going to suggest How to Talk so Little Kids will listen.

Which is the most twee shit ever written and I can't bear the fake examples, but there are some excellent techniques in there that I still use now with my much older kids.

I didn't shout but I was sick of hearing myself saying, "no" and "stop". The book honestly helped.

Good parents sometimes shout and lose their shit and get frustrated. Toddlers are hard work. If you genuinely feel you and your child are not at risk then you can offer your DH tools to deal with toddler behaviour that will improve their relationship

Where are your consequences for his actions?.

Was your husband raised himself by shouty parents?. We after all learn about relationships first and foremost from them.

Anger management is no answer to such issues either. He has a problem with anger, your anger, when you call him out on his unreasonable behaviour around your child. If he as you say does not shout at you then he is unlikely to shout at other adults. It’s the defenceless son he’s taking potshots at and you are not ably protecting your son from his shouting. Poor soul does not know from one minute to the next what version of dad he is going to get. The nice/nasty cycle of abuse is a continuous one.

Don't fool yourself-I was raised with two shouting parents-it's hell on earth when the people who are supposed to protect you are the ones harming you. You become an anxious adult who second guesses all your decisions throughout life. A lot of times it's learned behavior from family history but not necessarily always. Protect your son.

You are likely to be stressed and sleep deprived as well yet you do not readily and or immediately start resorting to shouting at your child.

Why are some women in society so ready to excuse such bad behaviour from men towards their children?. You both have a choice re these men, your children do not.

I’d suggest Triple P. For both of you to get some excellent tips and coping strategies. He will be harder because he feels you’re too soft. You will be softer because you feel he’s too hard. It will not end well. You need to agree on a strategy and stick to it. Perhaps meet in the middle.

My next door neighbour stood in the street and SHOUTED full blown anger and nastyness to her child as she wouldn’t come in from playing in their pals garden when told and had to be dragged home.

The little girl is so immune to it now she just said in the sweetest gentle little voice to her screaming, barking, rampaging mother ‘but mummy I just wanted to play a bit with the dolls a bit longer’.

She was immune to the mothers shouting. She wasn’t even phased yet I, a full grown adult, was horrified. So very sad.

His parents are not shouty, in fact they are lovely and loving to their kids, grandkids and each other. It is not one of those 'history/cycle of abuse repeats itself'.
When I talk to him calmly and nobody is stressed then he tells me he finds it very hard to manage a stressful job, lack of sleep and a toddler with 'terrible 2'.
No, he doesn't shout at adults, he also somehow manages not to shout at our son when his parents are visiting so he must be aware that this behavior is not on.

I’m a shouter when under a lot of stress - I came from a shouty family. I have toddler twins, so stress can get very high. I agree that shouting is damaging and a very poor way to communicate, but I disagree that it can’t be fixed. I have definitely learnt to keep my shouting at bay (not perfectly, but I’m getting there), with stress management techniques - deep breathing, counting to 10 etc. My husband, who is not a shouter at all and has always been incredibly calm, and though he doesn’t shout, he also now loses his temper much much more easily since the twins reached toddlerhood - it really is an incredibly demanding stage for parents.

Your DH really just has to recognise it as problematic and take steps to regain control. Have you thought of taking parenting sessions together with a therapist? DH and I did this and it was great, as we also clash with parenting decisions a lot.

The other things I would recommend are 1) making some alterations in approaching your toddler’s behaviour. Though it may seem like they have impulse control, they don’t. And they do not understand being told no multiple times and yet still technically being ‘allowed’ to do the thing. All they hear is no, them doing it, only to be told no again, so they do it again, and so on. I would try only saying no once and then immediately removing him from the situation if he still carries on. Consistently do this. And 2) Consider looking into a sleep consultant to help your family. Sleep deprivation is so very awful and a consultant can help a great deal.

Thought he could control himself around others, these abusive types do.
Image of the nice caring family man to outsiders is that important to such men.

So he’s doing this deliberately around you to further destabilise you and frighten his son into submission. His excuses are just that, excuses and poor ones at that. What if anything has he done himself here to address this, likely nothing else so what does that tell you?.

The fact that he won’t accept there’s a problem would worry me. If he was able to acknowledge that what he’s doing is wrong and needs to stop you could work with him on changing things. But if he really thinks parents who manage not to shout are soft and pushovers then it’s going to be hard to improve things.

@HeyMicky great book. I recommend this too.

Do you think that such a man would actually do a parenting course or even see a therapist?. Sadly I doubt very much if he would ever do either. He does this also because he can. Repeated shouting at a defenceless child, no matter how tired or stressed out the adult parent is, is unacceptable or should be.

@AttilaTheMeerkat I’m not equipped to answer that question as I do not know him, and I can’t make judgement on this brief description of his behaviour. Perhaps OP can enlighten us on that.

I honestly couldn't share a bed with a man who bullies a toddler. It's disgusting.

How on earth do you both think your toddler is going to learn impulse control and self regulation when he has such a piss poor example to look at in his dad?! He's asking his 2.5 year old little boy to have more self control than he does, and he's an adult!