"Good guy pledge" - could something like this actually work?

[MoonbeamsGlittering]

I've been thinking for a while that it might be good if society could have another movement like MeToo, this time with men stating that they will commit to being good guys who will always treat women with respect, never cheat, never lie to their partners, never try to intimidate women, and things like that. Maybe a list of a few pledges.

If lots of men pledged publicly to do this then maybe it would make slightly-dodgy men feel a push to treat women better, because they would see that lots of other men were committing to these things. I wouldn't expect it to change hardcore nasty men, but if it just led to some men improving their actions then that could be a good thing.

Has anyone else thought about this or even seen any attempt out there to start this kind of ball rolling? Could this be a good idea? Or is it a rubbish idea and I just haven't realised it?

This campaign from Police Scotland is centred on men holding each other accountable for their behaviour: that-guy.co.uk/?s=09

@YungWaffle I'm a man and I do have an incentive to change how other men treat women - my incentive is that I care about people in general and want to find ways to help to make the world a better place if I can. I knew that there were some unpleasant men out there but reading threads on Mumsnet (and also EverydaySexism) has shocked me and made me feel like the problem is much bigger than I had realised (perhaps I was naive) and I'm trying to think of a way to help.

@Orgasmagorical @BlubFestival Thanks - I'll try to find out whether that campaign seems to have made a difference (if it's possible to find that out.)

We really have hit a new low if we think men need to make a public pledge to be a decent human being.

That should be the default. Not something you promise others you'll do.

I, Guy Everyman, hereby promise I will never rape a woman. And now I've said it out loud if I ever feel like oooh there's a woman walking along, I think I'll rape her, I'll remember the pledge I made and resist.

I mean, wtf? Sorry, but that is so wrong.

It's basically saying the default for men is rape, assault, misogyny, etc etc and they may choose to elevate themselves and promise to resist.

The police should be the good and decent people but not even they meet that basic obligation. When policemen are murdering or beating women after pledging to uphold the law we've got no chance.

If you want to help change the way women are treated the best way is challenge other men every time they say something degrading or insulting, don't stay quiet when a man is behaving in an unacceptable manner.

Most men are not abusive.

Most men are decent people.

But these men don't speak up often enough when the minority behave in a disgusting manner.

If the decent majority spoke up every single time, we'd really appreciate it.

@IncompleteSenten

We really have hit a new low if we think men need to make a public pledge to be a decent human being.

That should be the default. Not something you promise others you'll do.

I, Guy Everyman, hereby promise I will never rape a woman. And now I've said it out loud if I ever feel like oooh there's a woman walking along, I think I'll rape her, I'll remember the pledge I made and resist.

I mean, wtf? Sorry, but that is so wrong.

It's basically saying the default for men is rape, assault, misogyny, etc etc and they may choose to elevate themselves and promise to resist.

OP while I can reserve judgement and take it on faith that you are a 'good guy', this post is invaluable when explaining why we as women are so turned off by the pledge idea. Does it make sense to you?

It's as bizarre to us as asking people to publicly say they'll never burgle anyone, kick an animal, commit fraud etc. If people posted that, the response would "and?" or "well obviously".

It shouldn't be something worth shouting about.

@youvegottenminuteslynn I do understand why it's so disgusting to think that we even have to ask men to commit to just being a half-decent human being. It's sad that things could be that bad. But from some posts on Mumsnet it sounds like things are that bad. It's useful to know that my idea was probably rubbish. I'm just trying to think of a better idea, because at the moment I can't see how to help much because I'm not encountering situations to call men out on (because I'm at home virtually all of the time these days with WFH and general Covid caution.)

You could look into charities / causes that support the rights of women and girls, aim to protect them from male violence etc and help with fundraising and awareness, with guidance from those charities / causes so you know you're acting appropriately? That way you're supporting women and girls from a place of allyship rather than doing something that from the outside is (sorry) akin to just telling the world you're a nice bloke and wanting praise for it. It seems you don't mean that but it's how it would come across objectively.

Do you have any children OP?

I'm not encountering situations to call men out on (because I'm at home virtually all of the time these days with WFH and general Covid caution
Then leave it to the people who are encountering situations like that?
You can take your cape off when it's not required.

I do understand why it's so disgusting to think that we even have to ask men to commit to just being a half-decent human being.

I think as much as it's this that's troubling, it's also that it's icky that men feel they should get a pat on the back, praise or retweets / likes for telling everyone what a nice bloke they are and that they wouldn't attack or rape a woman.

@youvegottenminuteslynn Thanks, that's a good idea. It is also useful feedback to know that my idea (that sounded quite good to me) would come across so badly to the women on here. Definitely food for thought.

@MoonbeamsGlittering

I've been thinking for a while that it might be good if society could have another movement like MeToo, this time with men stating that they will commit to being good guys who will always treat women with respect, never cheat, never lie to their partners, never try to intimidate women, and things like that. Maybe a list of a few pledges.

If lots of men pledged publicly to do this then maybe it would make slightly-dodgy men feel a push to treat women better, because they would see that lots of other men were committing to these things. I wouldn't expect it to change hardcore nasty men, but if it just led to some men improving their actions then that could be a good thing.

Has anyone else thought about this or even seen any attempt out there to start this kind of ball rolling? Could this be a good idea? Or is it a rubbish idea and I just haven't realised it?

Everybody pledges that at their wedding and you don’t need to look far around you to find out personal pledges mean nothing.

Someone who is good and decent will be so pledge or no pledge, the same applies for nasty abusive people, no pledge would change their behaviour unless they take it as part of a therapy group.

@MoonbeamsGlittering That’s why I said that decent people will continue to be decent, with or without a ‘movement’ - ‘loss of power’ to them won’t be an issue. Those that abuse the power are most likely a lost cause, but we can consistently call them out and not let it slide when we see it occurring.

My husband agreed. It was a conversation on how to change the worst of society. He’s 100% pro equality and is the sort of man that takes on half of everything domestic - kids, housework, mental load.

Sorry, it's a pointless idea.

All it will produce is endless tedious virtue-signalling on Facebook.

Share this if you love your daughter wankety-wank.

@MoonbeamsGlittering, if you haven't already, get over to the Feminism board and get aquainted with the gender critical movement. Also look at the work Graham Linehan (he of Father Ted fame) is doing to support women and girls.

But I totally agree with PPs who have said, if you want to make a difference, call out all the little negatives from your male friends, family, and co-workers. This could be anything from porn culture, sexist jokes, to Disney Dads, and husbands not engaging with "wife work"/the mental load.

@MoonbeamsGlittering It’s a shame you’re getting pile on for simply sounding out an idea. I don’t know if a SM movement like what you’re suggesting is the right move exactly, in large part due to what the replies have been so far, BUT I massively agree that it’s tiring to see movement after movement which puts the onus on women rising up (which, btw, isn’t a bad thing). I don’t know what the right direction is, but I’d sure like to see something along those lines that gets men involved. The fact that a few bad eggs would abuse it, use it for their own gain/just for show isn’t really a good enough reason to shut down the possibility IMHO. If it enables enough young boys in their formative years to stop and consider what the message is, then it’s worth it. If it enables a man of low confidence among his peers to speak up about poor behaviour he witnesses, then it’s worth it.

[quote youvegottenminuteslynn]@MoonbeamsGlittering

They need to call out every single instance of misogyny and sexism that they encounter. Including so called 'casual' misogyny and sexism.

They need to care about women and girls even if they don't have a female partner, a daughter, a niece etc who suddenly gives them a stake in feminism.

They need to fight as hard as women for the rights of women and girls and more consequences for male violence against women and girls.

They need to actually go on marches, be vocal on social media, generally speak the fuck up instead of leaning on "I'd never hurt a woman" as if that's enough.

That's a few things they could do. [/quote]
This. In particular the first one.

Call it out every time a friend or colleague makes an inappropriate comment or jokes about abusing prostituted women or using porn.

I’m fed up with so called Nice Guys telling me how uncomfortable it made them when this happened at work, like that makes then some kind of hero . If you don’t speak up you are condoning it.

think this would be an opportunity for really, properly bad people to look good to the outside world, making their spouse feel even less likely to be believed.

This

I'm a man wondering how I could help more.

As a starting point I would ask women and listen to what they have to say in terms of the solution they want to see, rather than weighing in with a proposed solution. As PPs have said, started reading - as in actually reading and understanding rather than rushing in with a contribution - the Feminism pages here.

As well intentioned as I’m sure your proposal in the OP is, other posters are quite right in that it will just be a badge of honour for the I’m A Nice Guy brigade.

First thing a man can do is to not associate with abusers, sexist arseholes, douchbag 'alpha' idiots, rapists, anyone hitting a woman etc etc.

I'm appalled at men that are shitty but I'm also appalled at those that remain friends or on contact with those shitty men. Stop enabling it by association or laughing at their sexist jokes.

Yes I agree, if men want to help they can make it unacceptable among their friends to mistreat women, to "joke" at their expense etc.

It's shocking how many "good" men don't think Ched Evans did anything wrong because it was judged not to be illegal, even though he admitted what he did, for example.

Its not a good guy pledge though is it.

I.mean eveb calling it a good guy pledge is.normalisung what everyone should be doing anyway as something special worthy of a mention.

Raise the bar. A good guy isn't someone who doesn't disrespect you or beat you. That's ^normal " behaviour to he respectful non.violent and honest etc

A good guy would he I dunno someone who helps others beyond the realms of human.decency.

@CandidaAlbicans2 Thanks for the suggestion. I did look at the Feminism board for a bit but I didn't come up with something to do. Maybe I need to look further down the thread list and just try to learn more without expecting to do much any time soon.

@BrightYellowDaffodil Hopefully this thread will be a learning experience for me. I didn't mean to offend anyone by suggesting an idea rather than asking. I can see how it makes more sense to ask. I'm happy to listen to any other suggestions that you might have.

@MaryAndHerNet That's the thing - I don't know any men like that, or not to my knowledge. If I did then I could either call them out on it or stop associating with them, but I just don't seem to meet those types of men.

@Whatwouldscullydo Fair enough - I set the bar too low. Happy to listen to other examples of higher-bar pledges.

@MaryAndHerNet That's the thing - I don't know any men like that, or not to my knowledge. If I did then I could either call them out on it or stop associating with them, but I just don't seem to meet those types of men

In that case you are not noticing what’s going on all around you. Unless you live alone, never leave the house and never use any social media .