Am I controlling or is my boyfriend a twat?

[youaremysunshine568]

Hello Mumsnet. A little bit about my past for context: I had really difficult childhood. A completely absent father and an unloving, emotionally abusive mother. I went into care when I was 14, and by the age of 16 I was out living in the world as a fully independent adult. I struggled with a drug and alcohol problem from my late teens right through my 20s and into my early 30s. I was absolutely miserable and at 32 I finally got myself into a 12 step program and started having counselling (psychodynamic). I’ve been working on myself pretty much ever since. I got myself sober. I got myself a degree and a masters. I got a decent career going. I saved up a deposit and bought myself a flat. I am now 43 and outwardly I look like a person who has turned their life around and got their shit together. However, inside it doesn’t feel like that at ALL. I’ve never been married. I never had children (although I don’t actually want them to be honest). I do want to be in a relationship though, but I still struggle immensely with boundaries and relying on my own responses/ instincts.

I am now seeing a man who is 37. He’s my first proper relationship since getting sober. We’ve been seeing each other for 2 years, but because of the pandemic and the fact that there were longish periods where we couldn’t see each other owing to the restrictions, it feels like we are really only just properly getting to know each other now IYSWIM.

My problem is this: I often notice him checking out much younger women in their late teens and early 20s (definitely of legal age but very young). Fair enough, he finds these women attractive. I find other men attractive too sometimes. But as I’ve gotten older, the men that I find attractive are older too. I honestly couldn’t look at a 20 year old man in that way, they literally feel like kids to me? We have an open relationship where we can talk about things freely, so I decided to mention to him that it makes me uncomfortable when he looks at them. In hindsight, I wonder if that was a mistake and that perhaps I’ve been quite controlling? After all, he’s never given me any reason to believe he’s anything but devoted to me. He’s just looking. However he took on board what I said and said sorry and reassured me he loves me and finds me beautiful (I never doubted this to be fair). The problem is, I think I’ve made things so much worse by bringing it up because now he makes it even more obvious when he finds a younger woman attractive by trying too hard to “act normal” and he gets all flustered. For example, we got served by a beautiful young waitress (no older than about 19) the other evening and where before he would have just had a bit of a look, he instead turned into this blithering idiot, (think Hugh Grant on acid). It was mortifying and I felt for the young woman too as she must have noticed and felt uncomfortable. Have I done something really bad and made an issue where there wasn’t one and destroyed my relationship? Can we come back from this?

I am still in therapy and I’ve spoken about this a lot with my counsellor, but as she doesn’t give her opinions or advice I’m not getting what I need, which is a much needed reality check! I need some perspective from you guys please. Is this just a normal instinct from older men that I need to accept as I age? Because it just feels so bloody depressing if it is. I know I shouldn’t try to police my partners thoughts, but at the same time, I can’t deny that it makes me feel like shit. Do I just have incredibly low self esteem? Do all men find much younger women attractive but still love their older wives? I don’t know what to do going forwards. I feel like if I talk to my partner about it again it will just make it worse and that maybe I should ride it out and let it blow over. It feels horrible though. I just don’t know what to do with myself when he’s clearly distracted by someone half my age right in front of me. I just sort of sit there until he brings his attention back to me. Thanks for reading xxx

He's being a twat . Dump the wankpot, you sound amazing don't let this idiot steal one more minute.

Well, unfortunately I think it's human nature to look, is he just giving a passing glance or is he leering? He's apologised and looks to be trying to make you feel better but he's overcompensating, maybe he's so aware that you don't like it he's behaving guiltily because he doesn't know where to look for fear of upsetting you? I don't think you're controlling at all though, but equally I'm not sure he's too much in the wrong either

I don’t know OP, it’s a tricky one. HEs trying not to make you feel bad by hiding it, and looking isn’t wrong per se anyway. Yes, men fancy women - and women fancy men! I’m 59 but can totally appreciate a gorgeous 20 year old man, though I would never act on it as 1 I’m in a relationship and 2 he’s younger than my youngest child.

He loves you and wants you. Believe that.

Maybe talk to him again?

I don’t think you’re controlling by the way

I think it’s natural for people (men and women) to look at attractive people regardless of the age. I do it and there’s no harm.

I think there’s a danger in trying to police someone’s thoughts. He’s obviously a good guy if he tried to make an effort to make you less uncomfortable, so I would personally not make an issue of it again.

It’s hard to say without a little more detail.

Does he glance? And it lands a second or two longer and then move on? Or is it more obvious than that?

My personal view of people is that regardless of commitment levels (marriage, LTR etc) people are in love and committed, not blind. I’m mid 40’s and I can still appreciate a younger good person. Just as much as I can appreciate anyone who I think is striking. That appreciation doesn’t stop just because I meet someone/ fall in love. What stops is my acting on it or taking it any further than a fleeting glance.

In terms of are your controlling? I think if a partner bought it up to me, I wouldn’t focus on the controlling part but I would focus on how it made them feel and why it would unsettle them. Does it make them think I will act on it? Does it make them feel I will leave for someone younger/ more attractive? If it’s anything like that, that (to be blunt) is my partners insecurity. Not mine. And whilst i would do everything possible to make them feel secure and loved, I would also hope that they too worked on themselves to make themselves a more secure individual.

(I wouldn’t stop looking tho).

The Chippendales aren’t 40-somethings with beer bellies and a builders arse you could keep your spare change in. But their audience is generally not female contemporaries.

Your DP should be able to control himself much better than he’s currently managing, but most men will ‘notice’ attractive women regardless of whether they’d ever cheat on their partner.

Hi Sunshine, My DH and I are both 41 and I'm going to say this is not normal for either you or him to do. Of course you can both look at other people outside of your relationship and find them attractive but that is all. It is a glimpse, a quick thought that should not turn into anything more. My partner and I have discussed this and he described it as subliminal almost where you find a person attractive or not and then that's it. You are in a relationship with each other and there should not be anything more than that. Your partner sounds immature. I'd be seriously considering if this is something you are willing to accept in your relationship moving forward.

Youre not being controlling, you told him it made you uncomfortable. If you'd said you're never allowed to look ever again. That would be controlling. What he chooses to do with the info is on him, and falling apart blustering is a bit ridiculous sounding. Tbh I could never date a man that regularly checked out other women when with me, I find it disrespectful but I know others are less bothered. Follow your own instincts. Whatever else you might think about yourself they got you out of an abusive home, out of an alcohol problem, and into a masters degree and a life to be proud of. So they're obviously seeing you right x

Urgh he is actually tragic. I can guarantee the poor girls he doing this to feel worse than you do. They're 19 for fuck sake and they're being objectified by a middle aged man, no wonder young women fear men these days, all they do is objectify them.

Tell him how pathetic these girls find him and you'll soon see him change his tune. Literally tragic.

The thing is, why would you be happy with someone who usually "has a bit of a look" at an attractive young waitress? That is gross.

And if you are often noticing him "checking out" young women, surely you are quite iwithin your rights to ask him to stop.?

I hope he realises how disrespectful he is being to both you and the young women and that he relaxes into more respectuful behaviour.

Sorry ,y keyborad has gone mad here

Personally I'd lean over the table and whisper "you're dribbling darling" and smile sweetly...

But seriously, we all look - I look at interesting/attractive people of either sex and any age and I will often discreetly point them out to my partner and vice versa. It's not derogatory to your partner and not demeaning to the object of your admiration.

This will be a very unpopular opinion but I do think it's natural for a man to be attracted to women this age. I studied evolutionary psychology and we learnt it's very normal for men to subconsciously be attracted to the most fertile women (late teens to mid 20s). I'm pretty sure my DH and most men would find a beautiful 22 year old very desirable. However my DH knows not to look!! And of course it doesn't mean he's not also attracted to you! I'm also 47 with a younger husband and my DH is definitely attracted to me, believe me I can tell. I just don't think we should crucify men for basic evolutionary biology (being attracted to women at their most fertile age). It's natural!! It's not perverse. But leering at young women and pursuing them is very unpleasant. Now he's trying to change his ways I'd give him another chance.

I don’t think he is a twat nor you are controlling. It’s a good sign that he has taken your opinion on board, and i think it’s quite cute in a hopeless way that he is now like a clumsy teenager if a ‘situation’ arises.
He would be a twat if you had told him you were uncomfortable with him checking pretty girls out and he kept doing it, telling you you are imagining it

No please do not give him another chance.

Your boundaries, already skewed by previous poor experiences at the hands of your abuser parents, are being further got at by this man now.

Full credit to you to get your own self where you are at now after such a bad start in life. End this relationship and rebuild your life without him. The last thing you need at this time is a crap relationship with a man who may well want to drag you down with him.

P.s
I often check out attractive women myself, sometimes, it’s hard not to look when someone is very beautiful or stylish. It doesn’t mean i am sexually attracted to them.

I don’t think you have done any thing wrong, you didn’t like something, you raised it and he’s trying to change.

I think that evolutionary psychology thing is bollocks. I mean, by that same criteria shouldn’t women be attracted to younger men,who have better sperm quality and are better at killing woolly mammoths?😆

But that aside…I am usually the first to cry LTB, but in this case I think what stands out is that you have told him that something he does makes you uncomfortable, and he has taken that on board and amended his behaviour (albeit clumsily).

Looking at younger attractive people is very common- I do it all the time (I’m 47) - I mean, imagine those fit young legs and pert buttocks running down those woolly mammoths! 😆- but I don’t seek to date much younger men as they’d be at a completely different life stage to me.

You sound like an amazing person. Don't stay with him if he's bringing you down.

Looking is like farting. Everybody does it, but only a jerk would call attention to it.

You haven’t been controlling but I couldn’t be with a man who is perving on teenagers, it would give me the ick. So for me, I’d not have spoken to him I’d have binned him off.

You're not controlling, and you sound really in tune with yourself.

Perhaps you might give it one more conversation with him. He doesn't sound like a bad guy, and as PPs have said, he is modifying his behaviour in response to what you said, just in a really clumsy way! The deal DH and I struck, when we were very first together, was that if he pretended not to look, I'd pretend not to notice. Maybe this would help your guy to be a bit more subtle.

You are not controlling. I think most men glance at attractive women, who lets face it, are usually young and gorgeous. but thats it. A glance.
Those that blatently check them out, especially when with with their partner are disrespectful twats.

You obviously noticed it to the point it made you feel shit and uncomfortable. And most of us would feel exactly the same in that scenario. It wasn't controlling to ask him to stop doing it.

He seems to have stopped leering at them, but like you say hes now getting all flustered.
That could just be him trying hard not to make you feel you bad. perhaps he genuinely didn't realise the extent of it before you pointed it out and he is now trying not to do it as he does care for you and realises how shit it was of him.
Or he just can't help himself. I don't know, only you know that. Whats he like in other areas?

I'd perhaps see how it goes and see if he carries on with it and if he does be prepared to let this one go. The last thing you need is someone who makes you feel like crap because they are openly checking out other women. Its grim.
A glance, fine.
A second glance or actually leering - get rid.

Do all men find much younger women attractive but still love their older wives?

Yes, I think they probably do. There's a difference between appreciating a beautiful young woman and doing the odd double take (that's natural and I as a straight middle aged woman will sometimes do it too) and full on letching and leering and objectifying. Only you can know which is happening here, but it sounds normal and harmless.

I don't think you are being controlling, but perhaps a tad insecure and over-analytical of his every look/movement.

He's being a twat . Dump the wankpot, you sound amazing don't let this idiot steal one more minute.

Christ. Ignore posters like that. They probably don't have a relationship so find it incredibly easy to tell everyone else to throw theirs away for even the smallest, imagined misdemeanors.

Congratulations on taking your life back after a very hard childhood OP - you have done amazingly well.

As to your question, how about this - maybe your b/f isn't a twat, AND you are not controlling?

It's fine to state your feelings about him ogling young women.
He's taken your view on board, hence he is now all shy & awkward when he catches himself.

Don't overthink this.
Give it a little time, & if he's still doing a Hugh Grant routine in a couple of weeks, let him know that you appreciate he's obviously trying to accommodate your feelings, that you appreciate it but don't want him to feel awkward.

With luck, this is something you can giggle about in future.
If not - well - you have a level head on your shoulders. You do what feels right for you.