Help please, dh has anxiety

[PeaceandJoy]

(Am I being horrible to DH)

Me and DH have only been married a year and he's recently moved out because I had enough of our arguing.

He says he desperately misses me and will get help. He rang our local MH support and did their assessment over the phone. After the assessment we spoke and he said that since we've been living together it's been exhausting for him masking his anxiety and not really realising that he does it. He has a son (8) and a lot of his anxiety is based around him and unfortunately his anxiety has passed on to his son. He is starting a CBT group in January and has also said he will do a parenting class as he feels bad about what he's done to his son.

I really do love my husband but all I can think now is that I don't want to be controlled by his anxiety for the rest of my life! CBT is a load of rubbish imo. My husband has childhood trauma from both his parents and until he can get to the root of that, CBT will be a temporary sticking plaster. I also dislike CBT as I have found in my professional experience that it shames you for your thoughts, DH doesn't need to shame himself anymore, he already feels absolutely ashamed of his behaviour towards me and his son and I think further shaming will be counterproductive.

He has been controlling me for a while - I don't mean abusive controlling where he checks my phone, stops me seeing friends ect, I mean controlling in a way where he needs things done a certain way. I have never given in to his ways, I have always asked for compromise and for us to make our own ways to go about things together. This is where a lot of our arguments have come from. He also gets a voice in his head telling him to keep checking his son to make sure he's breathing as he believes if he doesn't check then his son will die. Masking this has been especially problematic for DH. He has anxieties around me too, if I don't answer my phone he thinks I've died. I've got a very busy job so can't always answer my phone and forget quite often to ring back until I'm on my way home. This has been really stressing him out as he's never wanted to say anything before because he realises it sounds controlling and doesn't want me to think of him like that.

I feel very sorry for him as it sounds exhausting to live with. I'm quite a (wanky) free spirit and my only anxiety is around people with stomach bugs as I hate sick. But I'm not an emetaphobe, I just get more obsessed around staying away from people who are sick then most. I talk loudly, I'm very chatty, I don't care about talking loudly if my windows are open and its a personal subject as I genuinely don't think any of my neighbours would decide to hang around my (detached) house listening to me. Dh gets anxiety around that, I literally just don't get it.

I am not prepared to live with always thinking about dhs anxieties. It was making me so miserable before he left and I don't want to be miserable anymore. I believed for months that I was the problem when I wasn't, it was his MH. But I don't want to give up on him either. I want my marriage to work. I love him so much, I'm very happy he's getting help but realistically CBT isn't going to be a quick fix and I cant be happy with the way he is. I then feel guilty as I married him in sickness and health. We've agreed to live apart for a year and he's going to work on himself and I'm also going to work on me. I felt like I lost myself in this last year so I'm going to be filling my life with happiness and joy again.

Am I being horrible feeling like CBT won't work. What do I need to do to support DH more. I'm going to be totally honest, people with anxiety can really annoy me, I hate being controlled by anyone and control and anxiety go hand in hand. If anyone has anxiety I'm sorry if I've offended you, I'm sure its very difficult to live with.

Ignore people like @Lushplease.
He will need to do hard work for years to undo this level of challenge, and a lot of work in his parenting too. CBT can be fantastic and might help with some patterns but won't be a simple solution to something like this.

People often say on here how it's an illness, how 'its different if they're trying' and more. All that is true. But it's also true that in the meantime this is an abusive and controlling relationship - even if she feels his abuse and control are driven by his anxiety, the outcome is still abuse. She's entirely within her rights to leave, and if she wants to then sooner might be better in terms of not making it more and more earth shattering for his DS when / if a breakup comes.

There’s a lot of ‘me, me, me’ here. Seems it all about you and how you feel and what you want. You dated and married an anxious man; he didn’t suddenly develop anxious, compulsive behaviour overnight. He’s not ‘controlling’, he’s ill, and you really aren’t much of an empath. You say that he doesn’t need to be shamed by CBT, but your description of his illness is pretty scathing.

Perhaps making the separation permanent is the for the best.

@PeaceandJoy

He can afford private therapy and has said he will do that if the CBT doesn't work which it won't

I think he needs EDMR therapy once he let's himself get to the root of his issues. He mostly blames himself for his mum and dads behaviour towards him. I think once he understands that it wasn't his fault EDMR will help.

But most people who have anxiety do live with it for life. I 100% believe that we can fix our brains and develop different responses to situations but I believe that takes a lot of work and courage.

Rarely do I read posts on mumsnet that make me angry. But this one does. I am raging. Im sorry your husband has treated you badly, its inexcusable but your series of posts are awful and clearly so ignorant. You clearly have no idea of the depth and effects of childhood trauma. Your attitude towards CBT is appalling and completely random when it and EMDR are first line approaches for treating trauma. You need to go educate yourself about anxiety, OCD and how traumatic brains are wired. Go read Bessel van der Kolk, Gabor Mate etc. I have lived the horror of child abuse and neglect and Im mostly recovered but my brain will never be OK and most of my therapy focussed on me being ok about that. I think he would be far better off without you and you are re-traumatising him time and time again. A good therapist would point out that his choice of you as a partner is probably another abusive thing he has done to himself. Awful for him.

@CaptainCabinets

There’s a lot of ‘me, me, me’ here. Seems it all about you and how you feel and what you want. You dated and married an anxious man; he didn’t suddenly develop anxious, compulsive behaviour overnight. He’s not ‘controlling’, he’s ill, and you really aren’t much of an empath. You say that he doesn’t need to be shamed by CBT, but your description of his illness is pretty scathing.

Perhaps making the separation permanent is the for the best.

This x 1000 times. Im so angry for this guy. He deserves help. The OP sounds like she is unable to see past herself.

I think there's a lot of projection on this thread.

I am always on my learning journey and I would not say that I know it all but I've got a fairly good grasp of childhood trauma and how that impacts the brain. Perry, Allan Schore, are all really good theorists that tie in basic attachment theory with neuroscience and truely believe you can rewire your brain. It is ever growing and changing. If I had no understanding I wouldn't be telling you all how I can see his inner child.

I also sit on a panel for older looked after children and treatment. We never ever recommend CBT for complex trauma. Ever! In my la it's widely thought that it's more damaging to have CBT when there's complex trauma.

I'm truly sorry if this is touching a nerve for some people. This thread isn't about you even if it feels very personal. My husband was hurting me (emotionally) because of his own hurt. If I wrote what he had done without the MH side you would all be telling me he's abusive and to ltb. I'm allowed to feel cross at him, I'm allowed to feel my feelings and you can not invalidate them because of his past. He is controlling. He's controlling because he doesn't feel safe but my feelings of being controlled and how that's made me feel are still valid!

Posters who said I knew what I was getting in to. My dh always joked that he had OCD, he was amazing at packing bags for weekends away as he more than triple checked we had everything. I loved these quirks about him, he cared so much about the little things and I used to marvel at him being so prepared about everything. I'm a fly by the pants type of person, having him look after us both felt amazing! But now the way I am annoys him because he feels out of control whereas before it didn't. He did tell me he used to have panic attacks but also told me he hadn't had one since he was 19. I genuinely did not know the depth of his anxiety. With his parents he has a good surface level relationship with them both. I didn't know how badly he had been treated by his mum until after marriage. I genuinely believe that's because he didn't trust me to tell me because he feels unlovable deep down. He is very lovable and I have no wish to leave him. I just cannot lose myself again. Whether it comes across as me me me, I deserve happiness and to feel like me. I cannot make myself miserable and be his emotional punchbag.

@Giraffapuses thanks thats really helpful.

@Phoenix76 thank you so much for sharing!

Actually @Janeandjohnny you've really pissed me off with what you've said. My dh wouldn't be getting treatment at all if it wasn't for me. He would still be single and feeling exhausted with his anxieties and blaming himself. He would be continuing to fuck up his son (as that's what he was doing whether it was on purpose or not) and going through life unhappy. He was so relieved to hear he had anxiety from the assessor. He wouldn't have rang them for help if it wasn't for me. I have been asking him to get help for months. If I was an abusive asshole I'd be enjoying his pain, I wouldn't have been encouraging him to get help and posting on MN asking for advice.

Also - there's no such things as an empath! I never ever claimed I was an empath. I'm allowed to be annoyed that I've been treated terribly by my dh. Whether its his fault or not. Sorry if that makes anyone uncomfortable because they've treated someone like shit because of their issues. It isn't a free pass. You don't get to go through life hurting people because you are hurt. Boundaries are very important in making people feel safe. I've found my boundaries, I'm not being selfish. I'm trying to help my dh. And of course this thread is about my feelings as well as his. I'm not an ice woman who can take constant chipping away from. My needs are just as valid as his. I am not going to lose myself in taking his hurt. That isn't healthy. Women are not rehab centres for men.

hello @PeaceandJoy. I have rejoined having read your thread but under a different user name but have been around a while.

I am sorry you are going through this.

No-one can be superwoman. It sounds as though you are both going through hell and yet are desparately seeking a solution.

I say this as someone who has had childhood trauma, had depression and anxiety, taken it out on all my friends, family members and loved one and also work colleagues i also had CBT.

It is wonderful you have supported him this far but I really think you would benefit from talking to someone in real life too. I appreciate your do not find CBT works but have you tried it personally?

My ex and I had joint counselling and separate counselling too. This is key to helping yourself and helping each other especially if you have family.

It may mean that you do separate but that doesn;t mean it hasn't worked. It is aboit seeking help required and that is what you have asked for here.

It does sound like you are each of you struggling yet you are putting a lot of effort in to healing. It can be incredibly living with someone who has these problems. I have been your DH but i am also currently you supporting one person with physical and mental health issues plus treading on eggshells around another family member who is not ready to recognise a problem/accept help.

How would you feel about talking to vita health or Samaritans or MIND? Just as a starting point?

I do empathise and truly wish you support and relief from a very complex issue.

*incredibly draining

Just because you love someone doesn't mean you should be with them.

vitahealthgroup.co.uk NHS free service

Known as IAPT (Improving Access to Psychological Therapies), VitaMinds is a talking therapy service designed to support individuals by providing the tools needed to get things back on track.

Women are not rehab centres for men.

Amen to that. Ultimately, it sounds like this will be a very long fix and you shouldn't have to spend the intervening years being treated badly. Ultimately, use the aeroplane analogy- put your own oxygen mask on first before trying to assist others.

I used ultimately twice. Shockingly poor proof-reading, I apologise. Oh, for an edit button!

CBT doesn’t work for everyone, so don’t think that it will be the ‘cure’.
My DH developed anxiety and, looking back, we should have split then. I felt that i had to care and support him as his wife, but that meant the kids saw things they shouldn’t have.
Don’t be afraid to end it.

Thank you for sharing @beenthereboughtthetshirt and for the sign posts. I have tried CBT and didn't get on with it. I don't (no matter what some posters are saying) want to make this thread about me. But I had a similar childhood to dh although I ended up in Foster care. I spent my twenties healing myself. I have had extensive psychodynamic therapy, EDMR therapy but what ultimately helped me process my past and move on was mushrooms! I saw in the mirror my 3yr old and my teenager self and talked to them and put them back together in my adult self. I now work in social care (so I've done a lot of bloody trauma training) and I'm alright. I can see when I'm in my responses to things and self soothe. I can sit in my feelings after being triggered and bring myself back to a calm state of mind. I was reluctant to share this as for the last year my dh has been saying the issues are my issues, I went back to counselling believing that they were (16 weeks) and my counsellor said - the feelings I'm experiencing from dhs actions any one would feel the same, his processes are wrong and we worked on whether or not I wanted to stay with dh and whether or not I was being co dependent. Was I attached to him or was I in love. So I think I did become more in attachment then in love but ultimately I do love my husband and want to be with him for him and not because of an unhealthy attachment or trauma bond.

I'm not afraid to end it. I know I will be OK on my own and I do like being single. I'm not not ending it because I'm afraid of that. I want my marriage to work but I know it won't work unless dh helps himself. I cannot do that work for him, it's ultimately up to him. I know I deserve happiness and not to throw myself under a bus to save him.

I'm truly sorry if this is touching a nerve for some people. This thread isn't about you even if it feels very personal. My husband was hurting me (emotionally) because of his own hurt. If I wrote what he had done without the MH side you would all be telling me he's abusive and to ltb. I'm allowed to feel cross at him, I'm allowed to feel my feelings and you can not invalidate them because of his past. He is controlling. He's controlling because he doesn't feel safe but my feelings of being controlled and how that's made me feel are still valid!

I think you've said it all here. My ex has a wonderful side, and I am so sad that when he was younger he was hurt the way he was. But unfortunately, the saying is true - damaged people damage people. The only way to break that cycle is, just like @CaptainCabinets is doing, is by doing years of tremendous hard work. Your DH is barely even at the stage of acknowledging the work required, let alone really embarking on it. If you can find joy and support in each other through that journey that's wonderful. It's also ok - sad but ok - if you can't, and better for you both to acknowledge it.

@CaptainCabinets @Janeandjohnny this is how some women (like me, maybe like OP) get stuck in abusive relationships.

MN will tell you that abusers are sadistic, evil, but above all, intentional. I'm sure some are.
But most abusers became that way because they were at some stage abused themselves, or suffered other severe trauma. There is a much higher rate of MH issues and of suicide risk among abusers.

In many abusers, the abuse is not a sadistic plan, it's a learned response, and often a trauma response. And because we - and you - have been told that once someone has MH issues we need to appreciate that it's not their fault... then we give them another chance, because we feel bad, or because our family (or MN posters) give us a hard time for abandoning a man in his hour of need.

Like you, I've read Gabor Mate. I found myself getting infuriated through it, at these factual stories of violent men with PTSD being discharged to go home to their family. I didn't have trauma when I met my DH, it was his PTSD that led to mine, and then to damage to our DCs. Why should OP live with her DH's rages and be controlled by his anxiety? Is it a net benefit if he recovers at the expense of her own mental health and sense of self? What if she wants children, should she wait? Never have them because he's not well or in case it makes him unwell again? Like said above, women are not rehab centres for men.

He shouts and screams, calls you crazy and controls you. Whatever the reason for him doing this is, the outcome is still that he is abusing you. I would run away.

His abuse is definitely not intentional and he doesn't fit into Bancrofts types of abusers. It is a trauma response. This thread has made me feel quite guilty about making him move out but I'm not prepared to lose myself. I don't believe that is selfish. I think the most unselfish thing in a relationship that we can all do is to work on ourselves to be our best versions so we can show up in our relationship in a healthy way.

He does tick a lot of the abuser behaviour list. For those actions he feels deeply ashamed (now he does, at the time he projected the blame on to me).

I want him to get better. He's not a monster, I've never felt afraid of him. We get on so well and have a similar outlook on life when his anxiety isn't controlling him and then controlling me. I could list paragraphs of reasons why I love him and I know he loves me. I could leave him but he's the person I want to spend the rest of my life with.

@OverTheRubicon
'Why should OP live with her DH's rages and be controlled by his anxiety?'

Well I dont think she should, in fact I said she should not be with him. Leave him. Dont be co-dependent. Let him go fix himself. I think he would be better off in fact out of the relationship.
If the OP thinks he is emotionally abusive then she should leave.
The opening posts are all about the OP, her experience with trauma, the non workability of CBT etc etc. Just let the guy go fix himself as best he can without placing further demands on him. If the OP has done her therapy as she says then she will know she should leave and leave him at it. The guy has obviously got complex trauma.

@PeaceandJoy

His abuse is definitely not intentional and he doesn't fit into Bancrofts types of abusers. It is a trauma response. This thread has made me feel quite guilty about making him move out but I'm not prepared to lose myself. I don't believe that is selfish. I think the most unselfish thing in a relationship that we can all do is to work on ourselves to be our best versions so we can show up in our relationship in a healthy way.

He does tick a lot of the abuser behaviour list. For those actions he feels deeply ashamed (now he does, at the time he projected the blame on to me).

I want him to get better. He's not a monster, I've never felt afraid of him. We get on so well and have a similar outlook on life when his anxiety isn't controlling him and then controlling me. I could list paragraphs of reasons why I love him and I know he loves me. I could leave him but he's the person I want to spend the rest of my life with.

Why would you feel guilty? You know why he is like he is, you dont like it, you cant fix it so let him get better. Tell you what though, if my wife had not supported me through the shaky parts of CBT I'd never have got better. That didnt mean her ' believing' in CBT, it meant her believing in me. So maybe let him find his own path.

@PeaceandJoy look up BWRT

I had CBT for my anxiety and it really helped me.
I didn’t feel shamed for my thoughts, it just helped me to deal with them. It’s been years since I had my therapy and I’m much better in myself with my anxiety, although mine manifested differently to how your H sounds.

He clearly needs help, so hopefully he can be seen by someone soon. It’s not your job to fix him and perhaps it’s best if you to remain separated while he gets his mental health on track so you can both decide what’s best for you as individuals.

He surely needs the private therapy. You said he can afford it. So why doesn't he start that right away? He could still also do the CBT alongside it if he wanted. But it sounds like he's putting off engaging with what could really help him.

@Janeandjohnny I can dislike his behaviours but not dislike him. I'm not really sure why you've said a few times that this thread is all about me. Every single thread on MN is about the OPs perspective and experience about a situation. Why should this be any different? You have obviously taken a dislike to what I've posted as you've been the dh in this situation and you're reacting to that. I'm sure your wife has had similar thoughts and conversations with her friends and ultimately decided to stick by you. I'm having those thoughts and conversations now around my dh. It doesn't mean that I'm telling him every single thought I have around his challenges and my feelings on it and what treatment he is now trying just like I'm sure your wife never told you.

When I say shame around thoughts for CBT what I mean is that it's quite common in my professional experience for people who have had CBT to get increasingly worried and annoyed with themselves for thinking the way that they do. The best types of therapy IMO (and it is just my opinion, it isn't gospel) is therapy that allows you to recognise your feelings, work out where they've come from and be kind to yourself about it instead of trying to replace a thought in their head. But if it works for you then it works for you and it might work for my dh, I just believe his MH challenges need further work than CBT. That doesn't mean I'm telling him that, what I'm saying in RL to him is well done for being so brave to admit to yourself and to others what you're struggling with.

My thoughts are all over the place and of course some of them are selfish. I want to be happy and I want my dh to be happy too. I don't want to leave him, I want him to work through this and be who he is when his anxiety isn't controlling him.