If your mum did these things when you were a child, what would you think?

[SpottyCreatures]

1. Hid your comfort blanket because she thought it was a game, many times. Got her son (daughters bio brother) to taunt.

1. Chased daughter around the house with a whole dead fish, holding it by the tail, with the face looking at her. It was going to be cooked for tea, bought at the supermarket.

1. In a mother/daughter evening about puberty, was the only adult who raised her hand during 'Question time' and said that as her daughter was so wide what tampon would be suggested.

1. Helped out at the Youth Group her daughter attended but not the one her son did.

1. Said publicly in front of daughter regarding a Lucky Dip that her son should choose the ticket because he's 'the lucky one'.

1. Daughter had to buy first bra from a Girl Guide jumble sale because Mum laughed when she asked if they could buy her first one together.

1. No purchase of sanitary products, daughter had to buy them out of earned pocket/bday/Xmas money. Daughter was at fee-paying school funded by other relatives.

Tbh your h sounds abusive too.

What's with the crazy overreaction in the snow.

You were just veing truthful. And its wasnt hyperbole.

I don't understand his behaviour.

It's the opposite of reasonable and supportive.

*shop, not snow

@Sarahlou63

Two things to bear in mind (and not negating your experiences in any way);

1. Your mother didn't do these things in a vacuum - somewhere along the line she learnt and/or believed that this behaviour was normal and acceptable. Look to her mother and grandmother for clues. The fact that you've broken this cycle of bad parenting is hugely to your credit.

1. We think our memories are accurate replicas of what happened at a particular time. Actually what is remembered is the last time you had that memory - a copy of a copy of a copy if you like. So you be could absolutely convinced that on your 10th birthday you did X or wore Y dress and your memory of that day is unshakeable. Then you find a correctly dated photo and realised that you actually did X on your sister's birthday and you wore Y dress on your 11th birthday.

(If anyone had asked me a couple of years ago I would have sworn blind that I first went to the USA in 2004 - I absolutely remember that because I left New Orleans just before Katrina hit the city. Turns out Katrina was in 2005 )

Re: point 2, I don't think most people do have 'unshakable' memories where they are convinced that they were wearing x thing on x particular day. I don't think the OP is claiming that.

But a teenager will remember that they had not bras and no sanitary protection. I didn't have those things and I certainly remember it.

So I don't think calling the OP's memory into question with the examples you have here is helpful.

[quote SpottyCreatures]@DuckbilledSplatterPuff
Yes you're right, I think because of my childhood I've gone to the far extreme & want to trust everyone until they prove they can't be trusted. Regarding my DD being excluded, it was only that one incident. The mother of the class Queen Bee instigated a meet-up outside our house with most of the class and it was very, very obvious it was meant to exclude us. Especially after a particular conversation we had previously had about that date and time. I had tolerated her behaviour for 3 years but this was the incident where I finally questioned why she had done that. Several children have left the school because of her lack of accountability. In stark contrast, my DD was voted in to be school class rep. It was only after this incident when I apologised and explained in a very brief message that I was wondering why we had very clearly been left out and tried to explain in one sentence that my childhood issues make me insecure, that I got a torrent of abuse back saying she doesn't care, she isn't interested, she has her life to live. The rest are 'ok' with me. Not as close as we were but we still say chi & are on friendly terms.

In everything else DD is included and is a social whirlwind, I am so proud of her. I posted on here because I am trying to be pro-active, I don't want to fuck things up for her.

I wasn't aware of low-cost counselling - Thankyou, I will research this evening.

My heart goes out to all those suffering and who have low self-esteem. It isn't deserved, it's not OK and somehow we have to fix a problem we didn't create.

I damn well will ensure my DD doesn't suffer emotionally like I am. I will pause, stop, think, take some time before I react. Even if it takes a few days. I've got to. I can't carry on in self-destruct mode. [/quote]
I say this really gently, if you are thinking of a six year old A SIX YEAR OLD as the class Queen Bee you really need some counselling to move past your childhood and start engaging with the world as an adult.

Transactional Analysis therapy would help you to achieve this, even just reading about it.

My childhood was similar. I was sent out to work at 7 alone and on city streets making deliveries fighting dogs, perverts and strange folk. All salary confiscated. I was beaten with a snooker cue at 10 for rebelling. Never allowed out with friends. Black and blue from the violence of a 'mother'. No access to sanitary wear so had to cut up blankets and old sheets, and pray I didn't leak. I wasn't allowed to cut my hair which was knee length by the time I ran away from home. I wasn't allowed to bath more than once every 7-10 days so constant bad skin, greasy hair and body odour as a teen. Terrible black teeth from lack of toothpaste. Recognising that my mother had borderline personality disorder helped me to put this matter to rest psychologically as an adult. I hope I am a better parent...it would not take much effort! My mother died this year. I was devastated when my father died, but I just feel relief about her passing as she never improved over the years.

I would definitely recommend therapy. A good therapist will be able to help you work through this and support you. You mention losing friends, I do sadly think a lot of people respond in an unsupportive or just odd way to hearing about people's abusive childhoods. That's why I'm recommending sharing these things with a professional who will understand and actually help.

I could have written a similar list about my mum and I had the same experience as you, one day if just dawned on me that the way my mum has treated me all of my life wasn’t ok and all the memories came flooding in. The stately homes threads on here were very helpful for me and also a book called ‘Will I Ever be Good Enough?’. A therapist helped me see that my mum is a narcissist and once I saw everything clearly, I finally realised there isn’t anything wrong with me - I am not unlovable - there is something wrong with HER. I found so much freedom after realising this but I also had to go through a period of grief. Not ever experiencing a mother’s love affects you in ways that others can’t understand. That basic love between mother and child that people take so much for granted, to not have had that is something that scars you and shapes you. But you have the power to change things now that you have had your eyes opened.

Don’t pay any attention to insensitive comments from those who haven’t experienced what you have been through. They can’t possibly understand x

I would definitely access counselling. You have been through some awful things and need to find a way forward wether that's choosing not to have them in your life or finding forgiveness or just making peace with the past. ( it's sounds so simple but of course it's not) but it's the best and kindest thing you can do for yourself so not to keep reliving the pain. I chose to forgive and let go as my relationship in adulthood was much better with them. But I did it for me to move forward without the hurt anger and blame.

It was only after this incident when I apologised and explained...that I was wondering why we had very clearly been left out and tried to explain in one sentence that my childhood issues make me insecure, that I got a torrent of abuse back saying she doesn't care, she isn't interested, she has her life to live. The rest are 'ok' with me

Its good that the rest are OK with you, build on that. It sounds like a difficult situation and without being a fly on the wall we can't know exactly how to deal with it
But...
It does sound like a lot more went on between the two of you than is in the post, apologising, explaining etc..
Its not a good idea to say things like this;
tried to explain in one sentence that my childhood issues make me insecure to a woman who clearly doesn't like you... because lots of people have problems in their lives, so you are not the only one, although it may feel like it. At one time in our school, various parents were dealing with bereavement, infidelity, financial problems, serious illness, redundancy - and in general the rest of us just didn't know at the time.
Also, , she doesn't have to like you, and you don't have to like her. It would be nice if you both did, but she's clearly made her mind up. . Saying stuff like that to her is just inviting her to have another go , which it seems she did.

Your daughter was excluded by this person, but perhaps she knows you've called her DD the class queen bee and your tone when talking about them is quite aggressive. How do you expect them to react to that? Is that more likely to make them include your DD or to plan things without her so that they don't have to deal with you?

Think about what the best end goal is here. Was it to tell this woman off, which may be satisfying but is short term but doesn't improve the situation or whether it was to improve things for your daughter? If it was the latter, Is there a better way that you could have handled this?

Honestly the BEST THING you can do for your DD at the moment is to stop talking to everyone about all of this at school. Do not engage with this woman again, try to keep things civil, as in don't make a big show of ignoring her, but generally just keep away from her.
You say the rest of the group are OK with you, but don't expect them to want to get involved in this argument at all and so do not discuss it with any of them. At all. If you talk about this other girl and her mum in the way you describe them here, it will not go down well. I promise you. Generally people don't want to be dragged into the problems and dramas of people they don't really know that well. Its only going to carry on the issue, make them back off and worry about getting too involved with your and your DD and provide more drama and problems for your DD.
It sounds like your DD is able to make friends, so step back and give her a chance to do so.
She has several years of primary school ahead of her and there will be many occasions where you think things are unfair or should be different. You need to approach all of this more calmly.

Your mum sounds very similar to mine. I got cystitis aged about 13/14 and my mum phoned the school to tell them I wouldn’t be in because I had an STD. She has a PhD in a field of biology, it wasn’t a mistake. I also remember buying tampons with my first pay check and feeling so relieved I no longer had to stuff my knickers full of loo roll as my mum wouldn’t buy them for me. She also did things like wrapping up a box of tissues, a ton of beans and an old recipe book of hers one Christmas as she realised it looked like I had hardly any presents compared to my brother. Then I was sent to my room because I cried when I opened them and she laughed and said “see, I knew you’d need the tissues!”

It’s all so fucked up looking back on it and I feel even worse that I didn't even really process it until my dc’s got to a similar age, I just thought she was a bit eccentric.

I hope you find some peace with it. I don’t think attempting to explain your past to near strangers is the best idea, everyone had their own shit they’ve dealt with.

Yes you're right, I think because of my childhood I've gone to the far extreme & want to trust everyone until they prove they can't be trusted That wasn't what I said/meant. I was trying to say as pp above, that confiding your innermost thoughts and difficulties to other parents at the school gates is very unwise.
They may not even always be sympathetic or supportive. Its not a case of proving them trust worthy. They can't help you. And its probably all a bit too intense for them. It's not appropriate to the situation.
You clearly want to talk to someone, but it should be someone professional who can actually help and advise you. Not random parents of your DD's classmates.
They are there hoping to get their kids through the school system, hoping to have the occasional play date for the DC and that is more or less it. If true friendships are potentially there, they will grow with time but it cant be forced and over confiding about intensely felt problems that they don't have a solution for, is more likely to make them step back.

Told I was fat stupid from 13 onwards, went nc 15 years ago.

@SpottyCreatures this is the Stately Homes thread mentioned by others: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4387624-October-2021-well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes

I am currently reading ‘complex ptsd’ by Peter walker and it really resonates with a lot of what of what you say! It’s about how childhood abuse and neglect can give you emotional flashbacks that hamper you in the present. I urge you to buy it!

Strange question. But do these examples also seem abusive and screwed up or possibly a symptom of a form of MI? My late mother did all of these but when I challenged her as an adult, she said I must have imagined them or she was only ‘joking’.

1. Thought it was hilarious to tell me when I was a small child that I had Made in Hong Kong on my back, because “things from there were cheap and nasty”

1. Told loads of other mums at my primary school that I already had pubic hair at 10 years old. Of course, it back to my classmates who teased me relentlessly about it.

1. When I asked where an elderly friend had gone, told me she had been walled up alive in her house - I was about 7!

1. Told me when I was developing breasts, that I would need to go to the doctor so he could pull my nipples out with a pair of tweezers. I was petrified at the thought of this.

1. When I started my periods, she gave me what must have been someone else’s sanitary belt (!) it certainly was used, pads that were like nappies and a sort of plastic pant to wear. I also had to give her my used pads so she could burn them. Why they couldn’t be discreetly wrapped up in the household rubbish, I have no idea.

1. Used to ‘check’ me to see how I was developing.

1. I’m left handed and struggled to use a fountain pen without smudging. She used to stand over me whilst I was doing any homework and if I made an error, would rip the page out of my exercise book. I then got in trouble at school for having a much thinner book.

1. Had an Irish black thorn walking stick that was knobbly - a shillelagh - which she would hit me with which resulted in some pretty impressive bruising.

But everyone believed her when she told others how she adored me, what a loving relationship we had and I was often told how lucky I was to have such wonderful woman as a mother by her friends. Not sure if it was her guilt, but she would then ‘love bomb’ me with affection.

@2389Champ

Strange question. But do these examples also seem abusive and screwed up or possibly a symptom of a form of MI? My late mother did all of these but when I challenged her as an adult, she said I must have imagined them or she was only ‘joking’.

1. Thought it was hilarious to tell me when I was a small child that I had Made in Hong Kong on my back, because “things from there were cheap and nasty”

1. Told loads of other mums at my primary school that I already had pubic hair at 10 years old. Of course, it back to my classmates who teased me relentlessly about it.

1. When I asked where an elderly friend had gone, told me she had been walled up alive in her house - I was about 7!

1. Told me when I was developing breasts, that I would need to go to the doctor so he could pull my nipples out with a pair of tweezers. I was petrified at the thought of this.

1. When I started my periods, she gave me what must have been someone else’s sanitary belt (!) it certainly was used, pads that were like nappies and a sort of plastic pant to wear. I also had to give her my used pads so she could burn them. Why they couldn’t be discreetly wrapped up in the household rubbish, I have no idea.

1. Used to ‘check’ me to see how I was developing.

1. I’m left handed and struggled to use a fountain pen without smudging. She used to stand over me whilst I was doing any homework and if I made an error, would rip the page out of my exercise book. I then got in trouble at school for having a much thinner book.

1. Had an Irish black thorn walking stick that was knobbly - a shillelagh - which she would hit me with which resulted in some pretty impressive bruising.

But everyone believed her when she told others how she adored me, what a loving relationship we had and I was often told how lucky I was to have such wonderful woman as a mother by her friends. Not sure if it was her guilt, but she would then ‘love bomb’ me with affection.

What your mum did to you is very similar to what mine did to me in many ways. I've got a clinical psych to help me now thankfully. My mum used to do awful things to my private parts under the guise that I had bugs in there. Never confronted her on the big things but she denies the less severe things and calls me a liar. Gone no contact after advice from women's aid.

It feels good to know I'm not alone.
YouTube channels that focus on narcissistic parents and an author called Peg Streep have helped me if you needed direction x

Why are you still in touch with your parents OP? I fucked mine off ages ago. It's very freeing. Try it.

The bit about explaining why you're insecure to people. You're letting your past shape the present you. You don't need to do that anymore, you are an adult, you're in control of your own life. You've broken the bad parenting cycle, that's huge. Now break away from the young you. You don't need to hold on to that.

I think going NC with your parents will do the world of good tbh.