Toxic parents seemingly unaware of their own behaviour offering parenting advice. How do you manage?

[SarahAndQuack]

My parents were run-of-the-mill bad parents - not misery-memoir awful, but physically and emotionally abusive. Obviously they also had their good points and I am still in touch with them, and my mum in particular has mellowed over time, though covid seems to have undone some of that work and made her more uptight/anxious.

Amongst other things, a dominant memory of my childhood was my parents fighting - sometimes physically; often yelling and throwing things and so on. My mum would lose her temper a lot and my dad, I realise in retrospect, was often extremely nasty to her while bad-mouthing her to us and other people.

My own relationship with my DP is rocky. I am really sad about this; I'm very conscious of the risk of repeating learned patterns and we've had quite a bit of counselling, and I try pretty hard to educate myself. I think on the whole I am quite a reasonable parent and my DD certainly isn't having the experiences I had. However, she certainly has seen and heard me and DP arguing and we have shouted at each other in front of her.

This past year was very rough, and we nearly split up; my parents put an enormous amount of pressure on us to stay together (eg., telling me in no uncertain terms that DD would be irreparably damaged if we separated and that it would be my fault). They now seem to think they should offer parenting advice, and have several times recently told me how damaging it must be for DD to be exposed to any evidence of tension between me and DP, or to hear any arguments.

Our counsellor talks a lot about it being important to recognise patterns, and I have said (as calmly and non-confrontationally as I can) that yes, we've argued in front of DD and we agree we shouldn't, and I am conscious it's a pattern I saw myself. Despite this, my parents seem entirely unaware of their own behaviour. Any attempt to discuss it is met either with fury or with a weird jokey attitude, as if it's very trivial and I am being a bit immature to be dwelling on issues from so long ago - all the while they're wisely telling me how awful I am being to DD.

I know there probably isn't a good solution, and I know that you could easily say 'oh just ignore them' or 'have a blazing row about it'. But what I really want to know is, if you had this sort of dynamic, how did you deal with your own emotions around it? How do I cope with the fact that, though I agree 100% with their advice, I feel as if it's coming from a dishonest place?

The main thing that stands out to me is the fact that you discussed your relationship with your parents...that they were in on the knowledge that you might be breaking up.

While for some people this would be fine...because they have supportive, loving parents, it's not something you should ever do.

Don't talk about your relationship or your kids with your parents.

That's not for them.

Don't discuss anything of note with them. If you want to stay in touch with them, only discuss things you'd discuss with a colleague.

And I should add that whilst my parents didn't row all the time, I had a dysfunctional relationship with my Mum. Bless her soul because I do love her but she was unable to show me any affection at all...as a child I longed for something I couldn't get from her.

She also advised me in quite toxic ways...I know now it was because she had a bad childhood. But I would NEVER discuss my relationship with her for the reasons above.

@fortunesfave - I know! I'm really aware I keep falling into the pattern of wanting support from them despite knowing perfectly well they're neither capable of providing it, nor would it be a good idea to let them in on the details. But I was pretty isolated and it was, frankly, quite hard not to just reach out.

(And thank you for replying!)

Have you friends you can talk to? Come here instead if not. Not everyone has a confidant. Don't tell them a bloody thing!

If you want to discuss your relationship or your children with your parents, you can. Although they sound hypocritical advising you against the behaviour they carried out, ultimately it's the correct advice. You've said you've done quite a lot of work on analysing your behaviours, and probably the experience you had with your parents. I think that's quite a generational thing and so it's unlikely it's something your parents have done or would do. You can't change the past, only your attitude over it. It's highly unlikely you'll ever educate your parents and, anyway, they won't remember it in the way you do, so in some regards this is your starting point moving forward. You need to decide whether you want a functioning relationship with them in the future and that that will mean accepting the past and just looking forward. Or whether that is too hard and The advice they've given is correct and well-meant. And as

I think your parents are viewing the situation from a distance and it is very easy to Judge others when you do not have to do any of the changing, amending of behaviours.

They won’t look at themselves because they don’t feel it relates to them, only that it relates to your behaviour.

I think I would pull them up to be honest. Why not mention that as much as they like to offer sound advise and preach if it was that easy, they would have done it themselves and not provided you with an even worse scenario when bringing you up.

Ask them to please stop judging and offering their opinion unless they are both willing to accept that they too displayed these behaviours (from your post, worse) and what they could have done to rectify them themselves.

Sorry, I wasn't going to post this because it was a bit meandering so I was deleting but accidentally posted!

The advice they gave was correct and well-meant so they are as good to turn to as any other. Of course it's a bit hypocritical but who hasn't given advice that they themselves haven't followed! If you feel they have your best interests at heart, why not turn to them? But if you don't... then I guess you have to somehow learn to distance yourself ftom them.

@FortunesFave - I do have people to talk to (though I worry I talk too much!). I think it's that I get lulled into that false sense of security and keep thinking 'ah, this time it will be different and they will be supportive'. Very occasionally, this is perfectly correct, so I get sucked in. But knowing that doesn't mean I'm good at changing the behaviour.

@madisonbridges - thanks for posting. I'm not totally sure I followed all of that, but I'll let it settle til the morning!

@User310, I think they are actually partly giving the advice in order to see if I mention remembering them doing the same, if you know what I mean? Sort of testing whether they can construct an alternative story. My mum has form for this - she was dreadful when I got married and then said innocently a few times 'I was very helpful at your wedding, wasn't I?' In that situation my dad was thoroughly browned off at her and each time he picked her up on it and pointed out she was a bloody nightmare, and she stopped doing it - but I'm quite sure what she was hoping for was for me to smile and agree.

😂😂😂😂 I know. It was rubbish.

Short summary. (Edit: not so short actually!) You've educated yourself about you and your parents relationship. But that interest in counselling is quite a generational thing and your parents are unlikely to be interested in overhauling their relationship and putting it under a microscope, so you're never going to get the answers you want.
Sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand and leave things in the past. If you can move forward to have a functioning relationship with them, all well and good. But if you need to get them to meet you at some point of resolution, that probably won't ever happen.
But that doesn't mean to say that they dont love you, dont want the best for you or don't give you good advice. I've had a lot of therapy in my life but it has been for me not for those who caused it. And the best thing I learned is how to get closure in my own head, accept where I am today, and leave the ill feelings behind.

Would it really help in the situation you are currently in if your parents prefaced the sensible advice with “ of course we weren’t able to follow our own advice when you were younger” the advice would still be the same? If it’s good advice try not to reject it because it comes from frankly less than ideal parents. If you are not able to do that do not invite comments or suggestions by confiding in them, rely on friends or professionals. You have done a lot of work on yourself to come to the understanding of how your upbringing is affecting your relationship with your partner and your own family dynamic now. Without the benefit of this work your parents probably don’t “get” the connection between your experience as a child and your life as an adult. So don’t focus on them focus on your DP and your DD.
Also do they think that perhaps they should have separated themselves but didn’t (maybe circumstances would have made that difficult or they stayed together thinking it would be better for you, even though it obviously made them unhappy.) and so you should stick it out too? As if you do split up that would be a rejection of what they decided to do.

@sarahandquack I could have written the exact same thing as you about thinking they might be different and actually be the supportive parent figure you need. I don't have any advice, but wanted you to know you're not alone as I've never seen someone articulate how I feel as well as you did.
I also give myself such a hard time about it as I KNOW who they are but seem to forget and then experience the crushing disappointment and sadness and loss all over again.
Be kind to yourself and your DH (if possible) it's been an awful year or two for everyone and stressful in lots of ways.

@fortunefavs thank you for your very insightful advice. I know it wasn't for me but sometimes you read things here that resonate and are so helpful to know others understand. Great advice about the colleague line too. And about coming here to talk.

@madisonbridges - no, don't apologise, I really appreciated it! I guess my issue now is: ok, maybe they do mean well. I'm sure they believe they're excellent, caring parents. But why should that matter? Does it have to mean I have to swallow down how I feel? I don't know if that makes sense!

@Blueberryflavour - it's not that I don't want to follow their advice, or that how they phrase it makes a difference to what I do. It's that I don't know how to deal with the fact that they seem almost to be forcing me to accept a rewritten history where they were excellent parents and are therefore able to give me sage advice. I don't necessarily need to do or say anything to them, but for myself, I need to figure out how to process that.

@Alittlelost0 - thank you so much for writing that! I'm very sorry you've had the same experience, but it is great not to feel it's just me.

I will join you in thanking @FortunesFave again.

You need better boundaries and distance OP.

As a PP said, I manage what I say to my parents (now divorced) very tightly. Especially my mother.

She likes to feel involved in my life (would ideally want to know every detail) so I have a few topics that are safe to me that let her feel a bit involved.

But nothing, ever about my relationship. She doesn’t know about our struggles with fertility, miscarriages, Ivf. We’ve had a rocky time the last few years during the pandemic. I’ve said nothing to her.

I’ve nearly cracked a few times but I know I won’t get any real support just her delight at being able to use my troubles to validate her own issues and make it all about her.

I can mostly let her comments about parenting and her version of the truth of my childhood wash over me.

I did NLP therapy which really helped me reframe my thinking and break out of old destructive patterns and freed me from feeling so obligated and controlled by my mother.

Worth trying out?

Might well be! Can you tell me more about how it worked for you? I looked it up and it looks interesting - a bit like CBT maybe?

Yes I think so, though my understanding is CBT focused on behaviours.

NLP focuses on beliefs, as our fundamental beliefs drive our behaviours.

Once you’ve changed your beliefs you have to follow up and change you behaviours but it’s a lot easier IMO.

Oh, that makes sense. Thank you - it definitely sounds useful.

I don't think I know anybody from my childhood friendships whose parents didn't argue, and row, swear at each other sometimes, leave, but come back/threaten to leave (mainly mother's) stay in the pub too long (mainly father's) and none of us I would think are damaged, imo.
My parents had blazing rows sometimes but a very happy marriage.

I am 56. Perhaps we and our parents expected less.

I feel for you, OP. My mother was very loving to us as children but hugely dysfunctional (classic emotionally immature parent) and her marriage with my father was utterly toxic. Their endless rows, followed by her depression when they eventually split, dominated my childhood and has caused lasting damage for me and my siblings.

Now with my DC, her GC, she cannot bear to see them unhappy in any way (to an unhealthy degree tbh) and silently or openly criticises me for doing anything that might cause them a moment's discomfort (for example, not cooking separate meals to meet everyone's preferences, two mornings a week at playschool age 3 ffs). I find it incredibly difficult to swallow and its actually made me much more resentful of her than I was before I had children, because she has never for a moment acknowledged how difficult our own childhoods were.

@Knockoneofftheshelftowin

I don't think I know anybody from my childhood friendships whose parents didn't argue, and row, swear at each other sometimes, leave, but come back/threaten to leave (mainly mother's) stay in the pub too long (mainly father's) and none of us I would think are damaged, imo. My parents had blazing rows sometimes but a very happy marriage.

I am 56. Perhaps we and our parents expected less.

YY, it's always hard to give an accurate picture, and that's why I tried to cut it short. But no, I'm not talking about blazing rows or the odd bit of swearing. It was terrifying. I found out as an adult that I have dozens of healed fractures, none of which were ever treated; it was not unusual a punishment included not being allowed water - this is not your run-of-the-mill 'times were different then' experience.

Bloody hell OP - dozens of healed fractures?!

They sound like horrid physical abusers.

I found your post really helpful, thank you for writing. So they physically and emotionally abused you, they lorded their power over you, and now you are still letting them control your thoughts and decisions. I agree with others, stop sharing with them. Right now. I am in long term therapy and it has taken me a very long time to understand why continuing to allow my parents control of my life has been keeping me under water. And I didn't realise I was doing it. Please get back to therapy. And no, they do not have the write to 'advise'you on your parenting. Not when they failed you themselves as parents. Good luck.

Well. From my perspective that doesn't sound like 'run of the mill bad parents'. That sounds at the extreme end of abuse tbh.

I'm not an abuse survivor so it's not for me to say how you should think or talk about your childhood, or how you should be with your parents now. I'd find it hard not to reject their thoughts on great parenting with a sharp remark, but I guess that would be because I felt safe around my parents and you sound as if you will never feel that.

I just stare silently, sometimes with one eyebrow raised, until someone either changes the subject or blushes.

Op... .. I am sorry, I did not mean to minimise the misery of your childhood.
Healed fractures, no water, that was horrendous treatment.