Toxic parents seemingly unaware of their own behaviour offering parenting advice. How do you manage?

[SarahAndQuack]

My parents were run-of-the-mill bad parents - not misery-memoir awful, but physically and emotionally abusive. Obviously they also had their good points and I am still in touch with them, and my mum in particular has mellowed over time, though covid seems to have undone some of that work and made her more uptight/anxious.

Amongst other things, a dominant memory of my childhood was my parents fighting - sometimes physically; often yelling and throwing things and so on. My mum would lose her temper a lot and my dad, I realise in retrospect, was often extremely nasty to her while bad-mouthing her to us and other people.

My own relationship with my DP is rocky. I am really sad about this; I'm very conscious of the risk of repeating learned patterns and we've had quite a bit of counselling, and I try pretty hard to educate myself. I think on the whole I am quite a reasonable parent and my DD certainly isn't having the experiences I had. However, she certainly has seen and heard me and DP arguing and we have shouted at each other in front of her.

This past year was very rough, and we nearly split up; my parents put an enormous amount of pressure on us to stay together (eg., telling me in no uncertain terms that DD would be irreparably damaged if we separated and that it would be my fault). They now seem to think they should offer parenting advice, and have several times recently told me how damaging it must be for DD to be exposed to any evidence of tension between me and DP, or to hear any arguments.

Our counsellor talks a lot about it being important to recognise patterns, and I have said (as calmly and non-confrontationally as I can) that yes, we've argued in front of DD and we agree we shouldn't, and I am conscious it's a pattern I saw myself. Despite this, my parents seem entirely unaware of their own behaviour. Any attempt to discuss it is met either with fury or with a weird jokey attitude, as if it's very trivial and I am being a bit immature to be dwelling on issues from so long ago - all the while they're wisely telling me how awful I am being to DD.

I know there probably isn't a good solution, and I know that you could easily say 'oh just ignore them' or 'have a blazing row about it'. But what I really want to know is, if you had this sort of dynamic, how did you deal with your own emotions around it? How do I cope with the fact that, though I agree 100% with their advice, I feel as if it's coming from a dishonest place?

OP, you were abused by them and they still sound like they are trying to manipulate you.

You don't have to feel pressured to see it from their side or to cut them slack for it being a different generation.

You were abused. You can set any boundary you need in order to protect yourself and your daughter.

I'm concerned that you make it sound like you were pressured by you mum into remaining with your husband for the sake of HER opinion about how it would affect your daughter. How is that going for you?

Have you tried the Stately Homes thread on here?

That’s horrific treatment- you don’t ‘have’ a relationship with an abuser. You ‘manage’ a relationship with them.
You still sound like you are seeking approval from them-
I was advised to:
Withdraw to a point where you can meet your own needs without worrying about their behaviour.
Set that as your boundary (subjects to/not talk about, meeting in public/private, meeting with others/alone/someone who is on your side, access to children (not unsupervised in this case-that’s fairly clear!).
Allow them time to adjust (they will push this boundary and try to change it).
When you can confidently hold the boundary you can start to get something healthy from the relationship (think about how you respond when they push it/ do you feel confident to simply leave, and return at a later date without allowing a discussion, for instance)

Sorry, I was really slow replying because it's hitting me (even though I think I am fairly aware and should be ok). It's really hard to give an accurate sense of what they're like, because there are bits that are objectively awful, but if you stress those, it sounds like something much worse than it was. And if you don't it sounds like just a bit of argument.

Anyway: thank you so much. @coffeeisthebest, that's so helpful, thank you! That's exactly it: feeling under water. I did find therapy useful this time, so I must go back, yes.

@PermanentTemporary - yes, that's exactly it, it wouldn't be worth it to make a sharp remark. If I felt very safe, that would be different.

@Knockoneofftheshelftowin - no, please don't apologise. It's one of those weird things where I don't know how to explain the situation well. If I'd posted saying 'my parents were abusive and ...' then it sounds as if they beat me up to kingdom come. They didn't. They were awful parents, and I get the absolute shivers thinking about how they behaved, but there were also long periods when they were lovely and caring and wonderful - which is, of course, why I am still in contact with them. If they had been purely and simply abusive, everyone's first question would be 'but why on earth are you still in contact with them?' What I am trying to get across is that they are very damaged human beings who, still, I do have in my life.

@CousinKrispy - I was on the Stately Homes thread years ago! I should perhaps go back.

@Peppaismyrolemodel - that sounds really helpful: but how?! Did your therapist walk you through this? I think it is what I am finding hardest. I am a reasonably capable woman (honest), and if I were anyone else looking at my situation, I would be giving sage advice about all of this. But it's incredibly hard to follow.

Of course - it is hard, and you never get it perfect, but it’s worth persevering!

Dozens of healed fractures that you don't remember and never got medical treatment for is much more than bad parenting; it's abuse for which your parents should be in prison.

Don't minimise it.

Go NC or at least grey rock.

The fucking cheek of them telling you how to behave!

And the comments your mum made after your wedding - they sound awful, op.

Oh op. It sounds like classic manipulation… “I’ll be nice enough to make you think it’s not that bad”.

If they physically hurt you so that bones broke, it’s ok for that to outweigh the “good times”. You say things were “terrifying”. That’s not right. Even if there were spells of unterrifying.

I think you need to work through this bit first….

There is some analogy (I think) of a fence… you can always hammer nails in the fence…. you can always remove the nails… but it will always have the holes.

I was never physically abused. But my DM is very self-absorbed, over-sensitive, a martyr, destroys relationships etc. I find it hard to write that she’s a narcissist (and have started numerous threads on her) so I tend to start with “my DM has narc traits”. I recognize now (thanks to therapy) that I have been conditioned to minimize her behaviour and to always put my needs below hers. It is difficult to call a spade a spade…..

Anyway, also came on to say that my DM has often talked about the fact that she felt like she really came into her own when she became a parent, and that she finally found something she was “really good at”

We are very low contact now. She said and did things a few years ago that I’ve found to be unforgivable, which was really the cherry on top for after spending the few years leading up to that realizing that the relationship between us wasn’t quite normal. She can now play the victim, and cannot, I repeat cannot, take any responsibility for this situation being through any fault of hers, and has trotted out the “doesn’t my love for you count for anything?” line several times, along with “I have always loved you”.

Funny. As I type this I’ve just also remembered her saying to me, when I’d no doubt upset her over something (as a child) “love is something you DO, not just something you SAY… it is a VERB, a DOING word”.

One way street…. Always has been and always will be.

Anyway, I’m waffling a bit now.

In terms how to deal with it, you have to focus on you first. Get therapy for your childhood trauma. Work through that damage. It really is the only way to heal. This is bigger than just “how should I respond to my mum when she says certain things”. That would be papering over the cracks. And we all know that is never a thorough solution.

My parents have a shitty marriage and my mother allowed my father to be abusive to me troughout my whole childhood and blamed me for it.
I keep in mind that somebody like that is abusive herself, certainly doesn’t respect my boundaries and has no clue what’s best for me so I don’t need to give a shit about her advice. I would tell your parents exactly that if they try to interfere. They have proved themselves completely disqualified to offer any advice on healthy relationships and should instead shut up and hang their head in shame if they can’t be supportive.

There are a couple of things in your post that seem a bit odd. It is possible that you have a slightly skewed view?

For example my parents didn't really argue. But Dh and I do maybe once or twice a year, but we get over it, so ds's can see it's not a breaker. To me this is healthy. What does your counsellor say about arguing in front of the children? Depending on how bad an argument it is, is it really that bad?

Sorry, have only just read the bit on fractures. Christ OP that is serious abuse.

Arguments and moving past them, a marriage having a truly awful patch are normal. My kids have seen them, no it’s not pleasant but we moved past them, they saw we both try to learn from it. It doesn’t have to be damaging. I’ve definitely had periods when I wanted to leave. My family are more golden child/scapegoat although I would say not extremely considering posts on here. However I suspect I’m minimising a little! From your post I think that you are minimising your own abuse, which may be a survival technique, makes it easier to live with. Your dad pulled your mum up continuously about your wedding until she stopped. I’d go that route tbh…you don’t sound like you want to be too confrontational so pick a phrase, such as so great to see you learned from your mistakes with a steely look at them… perhaps make a point of giving your child bloody water. Then refuse to engage further. How strongly you go depends on you… it’s easy to say on a anonymous forum tell them to fuck off, but you have to find a way of response that means you feel you’ve reacted, told them you DO remember and they can’t rewrite history

When I had counselling I told them repeatedly all my hard truths. They got angry, denied it and still haven’t really accepted it, but I now have a much better relationship with them anyway because previously it was like this festering ‘unsaid’ things. Whereas now I feel like I can forgive them. In both their cases it was very much them repeating patterns.
However it was a rocky time and I don’t know if I would recommend it! It certainly wasn’t my plan even, it’s just like it was pouring out of me and even when I planned to be conciliatory I’d find hear myself bringing up something.

Oh gosh just read about the healed fractures I’m sorry OP I think that changes things. Do you remember how those happened?

Op , your last update is concerning and you are being dismissive of how awful it mums have been. abuse doesn't have to be physical abuse and abusers are not tyrants all the time. They are nice sometimes, that's what messes you up ,it keeps you in the cycle. It keeps you thinking it's not that bad.
I would urge you to go back to therapy and go back on the Stately homes thread.
Don't push away.