Therapist said to do this, have you and does it work?

[TreatsforY]

I’ve had a few relationships like this but the last one is a prime example of it so I’m going to share that one.

We clicked on date one, had lots in common, shared sense of humour. Fancied him when we met. BUT from date one he was distant (yet intense when together), not exactly proactive with meeting up, ie we’d have a date then no indication of whether we’d meet again. He’d often say he was busy or in a busy patch. If we saw each other at a weekend he’d often shoot off at lunchtime on Sunday after arriving Saturday late pm 6ish (never said it explicitly but it was obvious). It meant we didn’t spend much time together at the start as we never met in the week. As time went on it all progressed and we’d stay 4 nights a week together but he had little interest in going away - we had a couple of short weekend breaks but all organised by me. He never made time to see my friends even my closest one who invited us for dinner a few times. It all just felt like he had one foot out of the door. That said, when together things were wonderful. I ended it after he said he had no plans or intention for us to do anything over Christmas together.

I’ve had therapy and the key thing that’s come out of it is that, for whatever reason, I go for evasive people, those who keep me working a bit …if that makes sense. I’ve been told that I need to actively choose different people and see having to chase/excitement of that as a red flag if I want a relationship with long term prospects.

So I took this advice. Met someone I sort of clicked with on the phone but also found a bit too nice. We had dinner it was very pleasant. Slightly balding and shorter than I would go for but seemed a nice man, decent job, close to his family, seemed to have lots of friends. He wanted to get a coffee after the meal so we did. When I drove home I kept thinking about how differently I had felt with people who had seemed more ‘exciting’ like with my ex, after the first date he was all I was thinking of and I didn’t want the date to end. But I was glad to get in the car after this one as I felt tired of making conversation.

Anyway he text me to arrange a other date and my therapist said I should go because there were no red flags and I had a nice enough time. He messaged to ask if I wanted to go and see a show and if so he would book tickets. This would usually panic me as it would seem like a big gesture, however when I think back to my ex, I think I would have been delighted if he’d done this (he didn’t so I have no comparison there I guess). He’s been so nice and chatty and straightforward and I just don’t know why I can’t stop this attraction to evasive people…my ex was no better looking than this guy for instance.

In summary…has anyone tried to re train themselves to meet someone and let things develop rather than jumping into something that’s exciting from the start and therefore likely to be full of toxic behaviours? I know you can have excitement without toxicity but typically I’ve found that I’m not giving the right people a go!!

I've had similar advice from a therapist (not about evasiveness, mine was more a certain type of abusive man). My relationship experience has made me conclude I am a very bad picker, and I am no longer looking for a relationship. If I was I would take kind and caring over everything else (including looks) but I am I would guess a lot older than you so different requirements.

I think the advice is decent enough advice to use to inform your choices, and to tell you who to avoid. But I don;t think it should mean you have to force a relationship with the first nice man who comes along. If you don't feel any great attraction to this man then it would be unfair in my opinion to lead him on. If you find conversation with him hard work and don't really want to go on dates with him then I don't see a huge benefit in continuing to see him. Your therapist is not thinking about this man's feelings, she is asking you to use him as an experiment to see if you could make it work with a non evasive man. That's not fair on either of you.

I think it is a balance - avoid certain characteristics that always lead you to heartache, but you also need to have a bit of a spark and to want to enjoy someone's company.

When you meet people whether online or through other means you don;t have to make an attachment with the first person who comes along who doesn't treat you badly. Not treating you badly should be your boundary line, which means you don't go out with anyone who doesn't meet that expectation, but at the same time you don;t have to force relationships with everyone who does.

Good luck with whatever you decide

Your therapist is right that you need to reevaluate who you choose to date, but you shouldn't just keep dating someone who ticks boxes if you're not feeling it, either. You will have to be mindful and honest with yourself, and not get trapped in an unhealthy/dissatisfying relationship with anyone, no matter how nice or interested they may be.

I think its good advice to follow, especially in such early days (2nd date?) what have you got to lose? it's not as if its a massive or long term commitment you are making, just having some fun on a date, seeing how things go.

You cannot fix emotionally unavailable or otherwise evasive men. Maybe that is also what you've being doing and unsurprisingly it has not worked.

Was one or either parent, particularly your dad, evasive and or emotionally unavailable as well?. What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up, what sort of an example did your parents show you?.

I would also read the website entitled Baggage Reclaim. Be someone's priority rather than an option or thinking that yes, you will be the one to break down an emotionally unavailable man's walls. You will not.

www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-theyre-still-emotionally-unavailable-despite-how-much-you-tried/

@AttilaTheMeerkat thanks. I’ve been though this in therapy and my parents placed masses of emphasis on achievement and that had stayed with me, I think I feel I need to earn love and care. They were there for all the events at school etc but never really emotionally. I can see all of this now but old habits die hard and I’m seemingly very comfortable with working hard to gain affection.

The worst part of this is knowing what I’m doing, knowing it’s futile, like you say, you can’t fix an emotionally messed up man, yet I feel most at home there and that’s where ties form fast for me on dates. In contrast, a man who is settled, close to family, very kind to me (this one totally took the reins on the second date, booked it, made an effort etc) it feels very uncomfortable.

It’s definitely the comfort feeling that I get stuck in and it’s practically always with a man who has a catalogue of issues. Even now I have moments where I want to go and run to my ex and say let me help… ridiculous

I think you're oscillating between extremes here. Please don't waste that nice boring man's time to help your own personal growth.

Do you really choose men who aren't available or are you attracted to men who are self absorbed and career focused. I think there's a difference.

I think with finding the right partner for everyone its finding the right balance of what they need and want. For you its going to be a bit of balance of evasiveness and nice. Thanks OK. I guess you have been dating a lot of evasiveness, now date a lot of nice and one day you will meet someone in the middle who is right for you.

You will have to completely break this habit of chasing after unavailable men who you want to lavish care and love on and indeed it is linked to your parents and their over emphasis on you achieving (so making them look good). They gave you all the material stuff but emotionally you're bereft. Its not your fault they did that to you; that is all on them. If you do not break this habit it will continue to wreck your relationship history and repeat the same old for the rest of your days so do not do that to yourself. Bad men are just that, bad. Its simplistic a truth I grant you but its the truth.

You are bloody well good enough but you need to truly love your own self too and you do not. You need to explore this whole issue re your parents not being there emotionally for you a lot more.

I would also suggest you read "Mr Unavailable and the Fallback girl" by Natalie Lue.

I find that this sort of thing changes naturally when you feel more grounded in yourself and have better self-esteem. You can make conscious choices too, but if you feel self-respect, someone being distant or playing hard to get will Just naturally be s big turn off.

Also, don’t feel you have to date someone just because they’re nice. You could meet a lovely person, everything you want on paper, good looking etc., and yet just not feel it because the chemistry is not there. It happens to all of us, even those of us who usually fall for ‘nice’ straightforward guys. I think you should focus on rejecting the red flag people (evasive, etc.) rather than overriding your instincts about someone just because they are ‘nice’ (which is really just the very minimum you should expect – please don’t be persuaded to set the standard so low that it’s your only requirement!!)

The most important thing is that you’ve identified this is an issue for you and you’re motivated to avoid the same situations in future. That is definitely the hard bit.

[quote TreatsforY]@AttilaTheMeerkat thanks. I’ve been though this in therapy and my parents placed masses of emphasis on achievement and that had stayed with me, I think I feel I need to earn love and care. They were there for all the events at school etc but never really emotionally. I can see all of this now but old habits die hard and I’m seemingly very comfortable with working hard to gain affection.

The worst part of this is knowing what I’m doing, knowing it’s futile, like you say, you can’t fix an emotionally messed up man, yet I feel most at home there and that’s where ties form fast for me on dates. In contrast, a man who is settled, close to family, very kind to me (this one totally took the reins on the second date, booked it, made an effort etc) it feels very uncomfortable.

It’s definitely the comfort feeling that I get stuck in and it’s practically always with a man who has a catalogue of issues. Even now I have moments where I want to go and run to my ex and say let me help… ridiculous[/quote]
You have a lot of insight here on what’s triggered in you.

It’s because it’s a familiar dynamic to your family or origin that it feels “comfortable” - as you said feels like “home” - it’s not actually comfortable or easy or peaceful or mutual - because you are triggered in to the chase. As a child this chase was how you earned attention, affection etc - but it was hard earned and maybe you feel that anything worth having has to be elusive or involve self sacrifice, subjugation and pain?

Because that’s familiar to you. But your insight and lived experience tells you this is futile that there are no rewards only frustration and disappointment. As children we kept on trying and trying to get our needs met - we also had hope. But as an adult you know that this the wrong path. That’s a huge achievement. To know that and to stop yourself going down it. Try to identify the triggered physical sensation - I suspect it’s a bit of intense panic / some fear that you have to take action (chase) to survive? Maybe the sensation is not actually “exciting”?

Of course getting involved with someone stable and secure will feel different and will take some time to get used to.

How are your friendships - are they often fraught, codependent and unequal - or do you have easy, mutually respectful and compatible friendships? If so it’s this vibe that maybe you should be seeking when dating.

It may be that you're not getting the best from people because you're letting your anxiety dictate when to contact them etc. Give people a bit more space and they might not be so elusive?

@ESGdance my friendships are pretty standard really. I think it’s all very equal and I don’t feel I need to prove anything.

I’m obsessed with high achieving men who have little time, it’s like I am totally at ease with this and I feel so much familiarity that I think I confuse it with real feelings. This man with this second date has been available, straightforward, etc. It was always very up and down and confusing with other people even after one date.

It’s frustrating as I get why I’m like it, just don’t know how to change it at all.

@hahahawhatchalaughinat I don’t think it’s that, I’m not a chaser in that way!

I was similar and found reading about attachment theory helpful in resolving it (I was addicted to the push/pull cycle or anxious/avoidant "dance"), but it may not be for you.

I reckon your therapist is on the right track. You don't have to pick this particular man, but it might be worth two or three dates to get to know him.

While you date, just notice your reactions. How do you feel when someone takes ages to text back? How do you feel when is really responsive to you? Lean into the uncomfortable feelings, do they link to the past, or your beliefs about yourself? Maybe try journaling.

I think it needs to be a balance. There has to be some spark there, but without us being so in a trance over someone that we ignore red flags and lose ourselves etc.

Have you read Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl? Its all about emotional unavailability.

I read it as my partner told me he was 'guarded' due to a bad relationship history and I thought I was his fallback girl...turns out its me that's the problem and I'm emotionally unavailable and its been my pattern all my life due to my childhood.

Emotionally unavailable men are perfect for me because I'm not emotionally available either so they don't expect anything of me. I can pretend I want a relationship but by picking emotionally unavailable men who won't commit I'm going for the opposite.

My current partner is slightly emotionally unavailable but has his life together.
I was a 'Florence' (Nightingale) for my ex husband and thought I could fix him, we spent 19 years having severe ups and downs with lots of drama and I constantly ran on adrenaline.
My current relationship is boring in comparison and I 'miss' the drama and excitement but I know thats unhealthy so I'm sticking with boring and no drama because actually its perfect and he doesnt need fixing (,which again feels weird as I am a fixer by nature) so he's with me for me and not what I do for him.

I definitely changed what I was looking for and deliberately didn't go for my type. It worked for.
I was craving love and security but going out with carefree, fun, exciting blokes. I had my heart broken over and over.

So yeah, I think it's good to assess what you're looking for and really think about who you're picking.

That doesn't mean you should settle or end up with someone where the attraction and spark isn't really there. You need that especially when he's getting on your tits and you'd happily hold a pillow over his stupid face. 😉

You need that especially when he's getting on your tits and you'd happily hold a pillow over his stupid face. 😉

Thanks, I needed that

@TreatsforY

I’ve had a few relationships like this but the last one is a prime example of it so I’m going to share that one.

We clicked on date one, had lots in common, shared sense of humour. Fancied him when we met. BUT from date one he was distant (yet intense when together), not exactly proactive with meeting up, ie we’d have a date then no indication of whether we’d meet again. He’d often say he was busy or in a busy patch. If we saw each other at a weekend he’d often shoot off at lunchtime on Sunday after arriving Saturday late pm 6ish (never said it explicitly but it was obvious). It meant we didn’t spend much time together at the start as we never met in the week. As time went on it all progressed and we’d stay 4 nights a week together but he had little interest in going away - we had a couple of short weekend breaks but all organised by me. He never made time to see my friends even my closest one who invited us for dinner a few times. It all just felt like he had one foot out of the door. That said, when together things were wonderful. I ended it after he said he had no plans or intention for us to do anything over Christmas together.

I’ve had therapy and the key thing that’s come out of it is that, for whatever reason, I go for evasive people, those who keep me working a bit …if that makes sense. I’ve been told that I need to actively choose different people and see having to chase/excitement of that as a red flag if I want a relationship with long term prospects.

So I took this advice. Met someone I sort of clicked with on the phone but also found a bit too nice. We had dinner it was very pleasant. Slightly balding and shorter than I would go for but seemed a nice man, decent job, close to his family, seemed to have lots of friends. He wanted to get a coffee after the meal so we did. When I drove home I kept thinking about how differently I had felt with people who had seemed more ‘exciting’ like with my ex, after the first date he was all I was thinking of and I didn’t want the date to end. But I was glad to get in the car after this one as I felt tired of making conversation.

Anyway he text me to arrange a other date and my therapist said I should go because there were no red flags and I had a nice enough time. He messaged to ask if I wanted to go and see a show and if so he would book tickets. This would usually panic me as it would seem like a big gesture, however when I think back to my ex, I think I would have been delighted if he’d done this (he didn’t so I have no comparison there I guess). He’s been so nice and chatty and straightforward and I just don’t know why I can’t stop this attraction to evasive people…my ex was no better looking than this guy for instance.

In summary…has anyone tried to re train themselves to meet someone and let things develop rather than jumping into something that’s exciting from the start and therefore likely to be full of toxic behaviours? I know you can have excitement without toxicity but typically I’ve found that I’m not giving the right people a go!!

Not sure if this helps, but In the past my preference was usually feet first then oh pickles laters, now I prefer starting as friends first, see if their personality, matches how they appear when first getting to know each other, then see how the cover stories they have hold.

@MMMarmite has sensible advice I think. You have reason not to trust your first impressions.

It may be that it will take a bit longer for you to recognise whether there is a spark in the absence of the dangerous lighter fluid of the bloke giving off unavailable signals.
A really good veteran dating coach (can't remember who ) advises women to try 3 dates with men who seem nice but no initial spark, to give yourselves time to get to know each other and to see beyond the surface.

@SortingItOut

Have you read Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl? Its all about emotional unavailability.

I read it as my partner told me he was 'guarded' due to a bad relationship history and I thought I was his fallback girl...turns out its me that's the problem and I'm emotionally unavailable and its been my pattern all my life due to my childhood.

Emotionally unavailable men are perfect for me because I'm not emotionally available either so they don't expect anything of me. I can pretend I want a relationship but by picking emotionally unavailable men who won't commit I'm going for the opposite.

My current partner is slightly emotionally unavailable but has his life together.
I was a 'Florence' (Nightingale) for my ex husband and thought I could fix him, we spent 19 years having severe ups and downs with lots of drama and I constantly ran on adrenaline.
My current relationship is boring in comparison and I 'miss' the drama and excitement but I know thats unhealthy so I'm sticking with boring and no drama because actually its perfect and he doesnt need fixing (,which again feels weird as I am a fixer by nature) so he's with me for me and not what I do for him.

Really interesting @SortingItOut - this makes me want to read that book. It's not all about simplistic "don't chase men" advice then?

Your therapist is right that you need to do things differently, but I'd question the method. It sounds like you're following a set of dodgy rules that you've grown up with, and your therapist is getting you to try to follow a different set of rules.

This looks like a faulty method to me (which is why, I imagine, it's leaving you with more questions than answers) The fact is, there are no rules. Your feelings set the pathway, you just have to learn to listen to them. You clearly are aware of the feelings you need to take notice of, because you said

Fancied him when we met. BUT from date one he was distant

The question to ask yourself is why you didn't stop this immediately when you recognised the 'but'. That's a feeling you had. 'This guy is cute and lovely, but he's operating at a distant level that doesn't make me happy'

If you can start acting on those feelings, rather than trying to follow lists of instructions and tick boxes, you'll do fine. Essentially, you just need to keep checking in with yourself: Am I still smiling? Yup? Great!

It's pretty simple, once you realise that your feelings are all that matters. There's nothing to learn, no experience you need to gain, past experiences aren't relevant. If you're smiling, you'll stay, and that's it.

@DivorcedAndDelighted Its not a 'how to' dating book, it's more of a psychological book to help you understand yourself more and why you pick emotionally unavailable men and why 'normal' men don't float your boat.

There are a few tasks to do if you want, I didn't do them but found the book so helpful.

Its definitely nothing to do with Female Dating Strategy.

I would give any decent guy 3-4 dates before deciding. It takes that long to get comfortable, feel yourself and REALLY start to feel that click. Arseholes who are serial love bombers (eg, very intense when you’re together) are simply more talented at booking you in because they’re professionally manipulative. I’m not saying go and marry someone you don’t connect with or fancy, but certainly give this new approach to dating a very fair go.