How do children deal with having a father who's been loving and nice and also horrible and violent?

[owglhld]

I want to support my children through divorce. They are teens but one especially seems very conflicted and confused. XH left home three months ago once I applied for the divorce. The children have some nice memories of their father. He was/is very generous and would spend loads on them (even going without if needed), take them places, laugh and play with them when younger. But when he's in a mood he'll blank them, never does any normal parent stuff (only Disney) and has on occasion been emotionally and physically abusive. So obviously some terrible memories too. By the end they were practically begging me to divorce him.

I was wondering how I could support them and be understanding of their feelings for him. My youngest, confused child (I'll call her CC for short) wanted to go on holiday with him much to my shock. There is no way I'd want her to do that as she could be somewhere far away without a way to get away from him if something went wrong (and things ALWAYS go wrong with him when we go away somewhere, it's a 100% hit rate). I had to gently dissuade CC from going and tell her that she can go out with him for the day as often as she liked. This way she can call me and I'll be close by if I need to get her. Other times she seems completely off him and won't answer calls etc. I'm reluctant to tell her not to see him at all, even though I'm well aware that it's probably best.

I don't want her to think, either now or later, that she could have had a great relationship with him but I stopped her. So how do I handle things when he's neither a goodie nor baddie in her head.

He is both in her head, but you forget the bad when the good is on offer. Kids always build up good things until they grow out of it. I remember expecting every christmas to be the best ever until you realise it's not going to be and you lose the magic of optimism.

Sadly it's something you learn to stop doing eventually. Or you don't.

You cannot dictate their relationship though, their relationship is between them. As awful as it is waiting for them to be hurt/let down, you have to remember they will always have that dad.

He is their dad, some of us have great relationships with our dad some of us don't. It's got nothing to do with mum. (unless she's deliberately manipulated the kids)

She has to learn how to have a relationship with her dad, he is not your dad he is your ex. You see him differently

Thank you @lilmishap. That all makes sense. Looks like I have to let her come to her own realisations and stay out of it.

For teenagers id be realistic and sympathetic about the mixed feelings they will be having. I would have no problem saying to my child that I was worried about the holiday and what she would do if their dad created conflict and they were a long way from home. Ask her if she had any ideas how she would manage that situation?

I have experience of being the child who had a difficult father. its quite a headfuck and messes with your boundaries, but i think its important to make her feel empowered in the situation. You cant pretend he is someone hes not, but at the same time obviously you cant slag him off too much either as thats even more difficult for the child, even if it is well deserved.
Could you suggest to your child maybe short weekends or day trips with him to give it less chance to get tricky. Remind her that it isnt her fault

How do kids cope with such an awful dad? Badly. Very very badly.

They develop attachment disorders, depending how old they were when it started. An unpredictable parent figure is very damaging- even more so than a routinely nasty one. They become inconsistent themselves, creating chaos in relationships. It's very difficult.

Do as Branleuse suggests- explain you understand why she is enthusiastic but that you worry about situations like (list previous disasters). Explain you are prepared to protect her from those situations and the distress they cause by deciding not to expose her to them.

That's assuming you are able to prevent it, of course. Otherwise you can only give coping strategies.

Sympathy to you OP. We have this and it’s very hard. I haven’t kept anything from my dcs (now late teens) but have never bad mouthed him either as by his actions he does it so well to himself!

My eldest dc won’t see him but my younger dc wanted to (and I facilitated it) and shortly after they first met he broke her trust so badly that she hadn’t seen him since (nearly 2 years) although they have some email contact.

As someone else said, the whole thing is a major headf**k all round. As they grow up they make their own minds up and you have to just support them as they go. Xxx

Which bit are you asking ? The here and now ?

Or how does it affect you looking back as an adult with respect to life choices and relationships ? I can tell you a lot about the latter, but you won’t want to hear it. I would work as hard as you can on your own situation with your dc and fuck him. If your children were begging you to leave him you have put your own future with them as they mature in serious jeopardy.

From a Psychotherapy point of view it will have much further reaching implications.
Children are dependent on a primary caregivers, In an ideal world the primary caregiver will be kind but when they are horrible and violent it creates an awful paradox. The child needs their primary care and when it comes with violence and horrible behavior they want to run away from this but they need that primary care so accept the abuse so they can get their primary needs met.
I'm very sorry to say possibly later on in life CC could be in a relationship that's violent and abusive and wont think anything of it and will think it's normal or she may be in a relationship and there's good aspects but also abusive aspects, she will accept the abusive aspects so she can get her relationship needs met, acceptance, love etc.
If it were me, I'd be really going out of my way to teach her about boundaries and what's acceptable and not and labelling everything her father did and helping her understand the red flags and how not to end up in a relationship like that or what to do if she does. Also help her reconcile how this man can be her father yet at the same time be a bad person. A juxtaposition like that can take years to get your head around and can even lead to CC believing she deserved it.
I truly wish you all the best and have no doubt your children are in safe hands with you.

I’d say you’ve missed your chance - the time to do this was before they had to beg you to divorce him. They now know that you were/are unable to keep them safe.

If it were me, I'd be really going out of my way to teach her about boundaries and what's acceptable and not

OP has already shown her DD, day after day, that abuse and appalling behaviour are to be tolerated, that there is no escape. How can she now teach DD about boundaries, @AdmiralCain? OP’s own boundaries must be shot.

@SparklingLime In order for plants to grow they need light, air and fertile ground and nutrients, people make mistakes and need, empathy and compassion, unconditional positive regard and that will help them grow. Yes i could criticize but that will lead to the OP feeling shame which is the most deadly of all emotions.
I'm Hopeful for their future, she wouldn't be posting on here of their fates were sign sealed and delivered. The OP wants help so I have tried to Help.

I think it’s less about criticising than being realistic, @AdmiralCain. An acknowledgement that these kids were not kept safe, and the fallout from that, is vital before any future relationship boundaries are worked on. OP needs to work on her own boundaries before she can help her DD.

I think you're being unkind @SparklingLime. We have no idea what op has been through. And she has left him.

If it was easy to leave an abuser there'd be no need for things like shelters. I think kicking a woman who had clearly been through a lot, is trying to help her kids, when she is down, is low.

Op. I think you just have to keep the dialogue there. The chance for her to talk to you, work out her feelings with you. And for you to be there every single time he's a dick to her.

@SparklingLime I've seen many people end up in abusive relationships, it happens, it doesn't matter how wealthy or educated or nice you are, It's like a frog in water, the temperature keeps getting turned up and you don't realise what's happened until it has.
You made a realistic statement, People however become the labels people put on them or believe they are those labels or whatever people say about them, I always like situations to be flexible, people can change and be flexible. I have hope the vast majority of people can change. OP has admitted she made a mistake and I hope she can change and believe she will. She won't end up becoming that mistake and with a proactive outlook that mistake wont taint everyday for the rest of her and her children's life.

@SparklingLime tone it down FFS. There is no benefit in coming her to berate op, she didn't ask for opinions of what she could of done differently. Your comments do absolutely nothing to help her so take your judgments and take it somewhere else.

@SparklingLime

I’d say you’ve missed your chance - the time to do this was before they had to beg you to divorce him. They now know that you were/are unable to keep them safe.

Fuck me.

I'm sure the OP hadn't thought of mentally and emotionally beating herself up about all of this already. . But nice of you to remind her and stick the boot in while you're at it.

I think I can identify with @SparklingLime to an extent

I find my patience wearing ever more thin for those people who stay in situations that directly harm their children. Recent events help to narrow the mind even further, it has to be said.

Op said he was by turn “nice” and physically/mentally abusive to the children who are now teens so that is a lot of years of harm. Have we not yet had our fill of excusing both the perpetrators and those who bear witness to it and do nothing ?

And before anyone turns on me I was that child.

Children at the centre, always. And yet we see evidence again and again of how this goes so badly wrong.

I was in a situation that sounds similar to OP’s children. My posts reflect that. Damage is done. It’s not all happy endings. I am not trying to be unkind, but to be realistic. OP was asking about the future for her DD. To an extent, for her DD it matters less why she wasn’t kept safe than that she wasn’t. It’s not about blame, but the chance of a safe childhood is gone. OP seems rather naive to ask ‘how can I support my DC through divorce’. That may well be the least of their problems.

Sounds like we have stuff in common, SL 🙁

Watching with interest as he sounds like my mother. I have ended up quite figured up by it - did fine academically but have struggled with psychosomatic illness, flashbacks and disorganised attachment which has wreaked havoc with my relationships.

My parents stayed together and my dad still tried to 'smooth everything over'. I wish I could have a relationship with him sperate from my mum - by taking a step back from her I have lost the chance at closeness with him too . You have done the right thing to separate.

Haha a ruder word autocorrected to "figured"...

Thank you for all the replies. I've read some of them with enragement but also lots of sadness.

@SparklingLime trust me I will regret for the rest of my life that I didn't divorce him sooner. It wasn't because I didn't want to, it was because I didn't know how to. I've wanted to get divorced from him from before the children were born. I don't even know how to describe my marriage to an outsider. I'm not from the UK, though we live here now. From day one of my marriage XH was controlling and abusive and cut me off from friends and family before bringing us over here and isolating us even further. I secretly spoke to some lawyers in the beginning but because of the type of visa I had I couldn't divorce him and still continue to live in this country. I would have had to leave the children with him and go back. I had to play a long game. Nobody would believe that he was abusive. I can guarantee that if you met him you'd think he was a stand up guy and I was a fool for wanting to leave him. My own parents didn't support me, and I think they didn't believe me. They thought that I was being silly and trying to make rash decisions and "ruin the children's lives". Hollow laughing at the irony of those words and what you're accusing me of now. After twenty years of marriage I came to the realisation that nobody was going to help me. I first went through a period of severe depression and wanting to killing myself. I had a feeling of constant rage at the world. I don't even know how I got through it. But slowly, some things started falling into place. I had put in motion some tiny things that ended up with me getting a job for the first time, as XH was dead against me being in any kind of employment (this was a process that took 9 years). One month after I started earning money of my own I told the children it was happening, and filed for divorce. I then cut off my parents, as I recognised them for what they were. My extended family keeps me at arms length now, I've become a bit of a pariah for daring to leave. They think I did something terrible to XH. Life is quite lonely now, but it's normal and that's all I ever wanted for us. And I'm trying to build up friendships now that I don't have any rules and constraints. So yeah, that's the very condensed version of how I escaped.

I can imagine what a headfck it is for my children. Thank you for the advice people have given. I recognise that it's not going to be easy or straightforward.

None of us have the right to judge you, @owglhld. No matter what our own trials have been.

Take comfort from knowing that a steadfast reliable carer can prevent the worst of the damage we're talking about. It only takes one good quality relationship to allow a child to develop proper relationship skills and give a protective effect.

There is another woman on these boards somewhere who has been in a similar situation. You may like to read her threads simply because she is funny in how she presents her dilemmas, despite all the heartache. I think she called her threads something like 'reparenting John'. It began with a saga about a wedding. Her children seem very strong and capable, having negotiated their father's selfishness with the support of their mum.

Well done for getting out- I can't imagine the bravery, persistence and resilience you've needed.

Well done for getting out @owglhld - you have overcome some huge obstacles. I have just got out of a similar situation, not anywhere like as controlling as yours sounds, but your description of your XH exactly mirrors how mine behaves.

It was good to read @picklemewalnuts comment about only needing one steadfast reliable carer to prevent the worst of the damage; I also agonise about what my H's behaviour is doing to my DC, but I cannot control how he is, I have been trying to manage it for a long time, but sadly as @lilmishap says, it is their relationship...but it is so, so hard watching the way he treats them.

I have also got us out and that has brought new pain to me and them, but also calm - it is the right thing to do for the longer term. As @AdmiralCain says, I suddenly realised that the water was far too hot, up until then I had not even noticed it getting warmer .

You have done the right thing by your DC, I have the same regrets as you but the important thing is that you are out...although things may get bumpy through the divorce, the influence he has on all of your lives will get less and less each day from now on, as you get stronger.

All the very best in your new life, you sound like a great mum