Bittersweet video from my daughter of her little boy

[TheyCallMeBruce]

So she posted a video of her 2 year old eating messy food, playing in the dirt, petting animals etc and just being a cute kid. This was on Facebook. And I couldn't watch more than a couple of minutes because I never had that time with either her or her older sister as they grew up.

That was because their mother took them away when the youngest was 2 1/2. And I know it was 25+ years ago, but a part of me still feels robbed of my chance at fatherhood.

Sorry, just had to vent.

I suspect he won't be back to justify himself, nor does he need to, but given his name and the fact he was posting at 3am UK time, I don't think one should assume he is from the UK. If it's Australia for instance I don't think many of us have a clue as to what the law and culture was there 25 years ago.

That's a fair point pog

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

What was different 25 years ago? If anything it's women who had fewer rights back then, not men. However if there is some specific right men didn't have 25 years ago that made it impossible for them to see their children without the mother's permission then I'm happy to hear about it. Maybe there was some law that gave women this enormous amount of power over men despite the fact that they don't have anywhere near this much power in any other avenue of life and the entire legal system was designed and run by men. Weird how women have experienced so much systemic disadvantage throughout history and yet when it comes to parenting suddenly they have so much power within the system that men have literally no choice but to give up all their parental responsibilities if the mother says so.

The law around unmarried mothers was different men did not have as many parental rights as they do now even if they were on the birth certificate these days its equal rights if they are named hence pregnant women fleeing from DV being advised not to name them

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings

What was different 25 years ago? If anything it's women who had fewer rights back then, not men. However if there is some specific right men didn't have 25 years ago that made it impossible for them to see their children without the mother's permission then I'm happy to hear about it. Maybe there was some law that gave women this enormous amount of power over men despite the fact that they don't have anywhere near this much power in any other avenue of life and the entire legal system was designed and run by men. Weird how women have experienced so much systemic disadvantage throughout history and yet when it comes to parenting suddenly they have so much power within the system that men have literally no choice but to give up all their parental responsibilities if the mother says so.

25 years ago there wasn’t as much focus on equal access, regarding children for fathers, though I agree in most other areas women would have been disadvantaged though.

Women would have been the main carer once parents split up. These days men seem to be much more involved. Lots of couples do 50:50, 40:60 and there is a shift towards fathers rights.

That’s why there is this shift to enable father to have access, after separation. A child deserves to have a relationship with both parents, not just one. Why should a child lose out because the parents no longer get on.

I’m talking about good fathers in the above scenarios, but it looks like even those that are abusive to the mothers are still allowed time with their children

The law around unmarried mothers was different men did not have as many parental rights as they do now even if they were on the birth certificate these days its equal rights if they are named hence pregnant women fleeing from DV being advised not to name them

This

To add to the above, from.perpwnal experience, SS can sometimes make amps.very questionable decisions regarding contact.

I'm also really sorry that you missed out on such precious time. No one knows the circumstances so no one can judge. It must be difficult but it's great that you now have your child/ren back in your life and you now have the opportunity to be a brilliant grandad.

Make those memories with your GC. Dad never played with us, he just never had the time, so he decided to live his dreams through our GC.

OK ok Theunamedcat and Starcup, I concede, I'll reserve judgement just in case the OP comes back to reveal that he was in fact never named on the BC and therefore had no parental rights and no way of acquiring them in 90s Australia.

None of us know the story here. Not sure much is gained by judging before you have any facts.

OP is being a big tease however - or has maybe been scared off!

@ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings if a father was not married to the mother and was not on the birth certificate then they had no rights at all. They couldn't consent to medical treatment in an emergency, for example, even if they were still in a relationship with the mother, and if anything happened to the mother then the kids would be looked after by her family. I'm not even sure that they had their rights even if they were on the birth certificate - it's been a while since I thought about it. I can't remember the date it changed.

I'm trying to remember what it was called, don't quote me but I think it was called 'certificate of parental responsibility' which men could apply for to have legal standing for their kids. Without it, if anything happened to the mother then the father was at the mercy of the mother's family.

There wasn't the push for 50-50 then, either, and men could get squeezed out quite easily. There was also much less of a culture for men to be involved, even only 25 years ago.

There was still plenty of people who made coparenting work and plenty of people who acted in good faith. It's just that they never make the headlines.

I really couldn't care less what the culture was like back then, I don't think anyone should get a free pass just because everyone else was doing it. I can't imagine any conditions or cultural norms under which I'd let myself be seperated from my children if there was even the smallest chance of stopping it. More than happy to acknowledge that the law around parental responsibility was different back then though, and maybe more so if the OP is in another country. As I said upthread, I will proceed to reserve judgement on the slim chance the OP returns to the thread. Not feeling super charitable towards humans today I'm afraid.

No return? Well colour me surprised

What nasty comments. I'm sure that had a woman posted that she wouldn't have got such a hard time. We don't know the details.

What was different 25 years ago?

I split with XH in the early 90s and had "Sole Care and Control". I was told this was standard for the mother. I could have emigrated, moved house, changed names - anything.

I didn't obvs and happy my DCs have a good relationship with their dad and an even better one with their SM.

Agreed we don’t know the backstory so why go straight on the defensive, the OP is already feeling sad and is venting.

If this were a woman posting would the reaction have been the same or would the explanation have been asked for in a gentler way?

Honestly!

@luckylavender

What nasty comments. I'm sure that had a woman posted that she wouldn't have got such a hard time. We don't know the details.

Seriously doubtful I've personally known people "abandoned" by there father and they let him back in someone else "abandoned"by there mother? She had to move a very long way away with her boyfriend to stop people shouting at her there is something about a mum walking away that makes people venomous

Women rarely keep children away from good fathers, in my experience.

@dworky

Women rarely keep children away from good fathers, in my experience.

My fils first wife was physically and emotionally abusive. She was an alcoholic. She took their daughter and faked his signature on adoption papers for her 2nd husband to adopt her. He’d just had a traumatic bereavement (RTA) & a baby with his second wife. He was advised by a solicitor it would be too expensive for him to even attempt to fight it and if he tried he’d likely lose as it would be classed as “unreasonably withholding consent”.

He was a great dad to my husband and his step-daughter.

But that’s just how it was.

@dworky

Women rarely keep children away from good fathers, in my experience.

This ^^

And yes there are stories that "some women" keep the kids away from there dad and sometimes it can be true

but I can categorically tell you in my daughters dad's case its false he had a child before ours that I didn't know about and abandoned then he had ours that because I apparently made it difficult for him (I asked him to show up on time sober and not take our daughter to a drug dealers house) he dropped her he actively lied to everyone telling them he still saw her his then girlfriend CONFIRMED IT told everyone I was taking dd over there I didn't even know where they lived 🙄 he paid nothing stopped seeing her got married had even more kids still blames me for not seeing our (now adult) child

My sons father is just as shite got into tons of trouble arrest after arrest then he was a changed man fiance and a dog got rid of the dog cheated on the fiance with her friend got arrested again now he is once again a changed man with a new girlfriend a new dog and a job this time he is still trying not to pay child support on benefits he has to pay less than thirty a month for two kids with a full time job he thinks forty a month is being generous

This doesn't mean all men are shite fathers it just means the ones I know are shite fathers

@dworky

Women rarely keep children away from good fathers, in my experience.

It's rarer than the reverse situation, but it does happen. Just because that's usually the case doesn't necessarily mean it is the case here.

Totally impossible to comment without more context. Did you not see your child for 25 years. I’m not sure there’s anything that would excuse that. You’ve gone quiet. Please tell us more so we don’t speculate.

@dworky

Women rarely keep children away from good fathers, in my experience.

I disagree. My grandmother is quite proud of how she hid her children from their father every time he'd try and visit them. She's a very bitter person and still hasn't got over their split 50 years on. I know it's hard to believe but sometimes it's the women that make the shitty decisions.

There are some horrible responses to OP on here

My parents split in the 90s and my mother made it her life’s work to hurt my dad, starting with stopping all access to me and my siblings

I’m not exaggerating when I say he must have started court proceedings 10 times to get access. Eventually, he would get an order and she would get a bollocking from the judge warning her that blocking contact would mean she would be found in contempt of court
But to get to that point, she would just no-show in court several times

And then when the court-ordered weekends rolled around, she would get us up at 6am and we would go on a day trip. To a friends house, to a park, to anywhere where my dad couldn’t find us
And we would stay there at least all day, sometimes all weekend. He would sit in his car outside our house and eventually give up and go home

If he tried to come to our school, she would create a scene that would look ridiculous in Eastenders. Screaming at the top of her lungs that he was a rapist and an abuser. That he had broken into her house in the night and tried to kill her, any ridiculous shit
We would all be in tears and my dad would have to leave just to stop her causing a scene

Oh, and of course when he next went back to court, she would get her knuckles rapped by the judge but nothing more. She never was found in contempt of court

Over the course of several years, the only contact we had with him was phone calls in public phone boxes

When the 1471 service was introduced, we worked out that there was a phone box in the foyer of a local pub where instead of putting the coin in to make the call, you put the coin in when the other person answered

So we would sneak into the pub and call our dad and then hang up when he answered
He used 1471 to call back and we would talk to him but were limited on time because our mum thought we were out playing

After a few years, she remarried and her new husband wasn’t comfortable with her stopping all contact. So we were allowed to call him from home but only with her sitting on the phone extension listening in

When I was 15, I asked to move in with him and did.
The fallout from this was that she cut me off entirely. I’ve seen her 3 or 4 times since then, at funerals and once bumping in to her in the street.
This was partly a warning shot to my younger brothers not to try and see dad and it worked for years.

They eventually managed to move away from her and got back in contact with my dad but he missed all our childhoods

It’s a miracle he didn’t have a total breakdown tbh. He spent every last Penny he had on legal action which got him nowhere, and went for years at a time with virtually no contact.

So some of their posters can fuck off to the other side of fuck with their snidey little comments