Leaving over marriage and kids

[Ijjstdontknow]

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could weigh in with some advice on my situation. I’m not sure if I need to give my head a wobble or not.

Current situation is me and DP are both 25 and have been together coming up to 3 years. Have lived together for two. Have discussed marriage and kids before and agreed it’s something we would both like, DP pretty insistent he wants to get married before having kids.

My predicament is this: I have stage 4 endometriosis for which I have been waiting a full excision for almost 18 months. This has obviously been delayed massively due to COVID. Because of the intensity of my Endo, even though they have removed a lot of it once I have a lot of scar tissue. I know that this will make it harder for me to conceive. This means I would like to have kids sooner rather than later, DP knows this and it’s something we have discussed in detail before.

I fully thought we were on the same page until last night when we were discussing our friends who recently got married. I made a jokey comment about when were we getting married and he replied “when we can afford it” I was a bit ? So questioned this and then he said hopefully it’s doable in the next few years.

I’m really upset about this and I don’t know what to do. If we don’t think about marriage until the next few years and then kids after that it will be considerably harder for me to have them. I also have a chronic condition that would not make me the ideal candidate for IVF, and it also means that the older I get it will probably be harder for my body to physically carry a baby.

I know we are very young but I just feel like my internal clock is screaming at me and I don’t know what to do. We are tied into a tenancy agreement that has 6 months left and before we looked for somewhere else this was a conversation I was going to have with him because if we signed on for another 12 months I would be nearly 27 coming out of that and I’d definitely want to know we’d be making some progression by then.

I obviously know that I can’t make him do what I want and if I did that would be a recipe for disaster. But I also need to do what’s best for myself. If I left him and didn’t meet someone and couldn’t have kids at least that would be my own choice. I don’t want to end up resenting him. I don’t know if I should wait until our tenancy end date is nearer and have a serious conversation with him (and see what happens in the mean time) or just tell him we’re clearly not on the same page and rip the plaster off now.

For context we both have secure stable jobs, his more so as it is government in a position where they are crying out for more staff. Combined we have about 7k in cash savings and a similar amount in ISAs. We could save more if we wanted to but we just send over a set amount to savings every month. We have no debts and both drive. We currently live in a city (not London) but pay premium rent. When this tenancy ends we were discussing moving out of the city and into a house where our rent would drop a considerable amount meaning we could put more into ISAs to buy.

Why is it important to him to be married 1st, also getting married at a registry is not expensive. If you want children and you are time dependent, I would say you need a re think of everything

I think at the age you both are, the difference in maturity is usually quite large between women and men. A 25 year old female getting married and having children is not so eyebrow raising, for a 25 year old male to have the same level of maturity is unusual. If your boyfriend was closer to 30 or just above I could see how he might feel he's ready, but a 25 year old man probably doesn't think very far ahead to be honest.

The average age for a woman in the UK to have her first baby is 29, so all the bleating about being "very young" at 25 doesn't ring true, especially as your mutual timeline puts a planned (not quick, couples plus witnesses) wedding before ttc. If you married at 27 it'd be very ordinary to set a date and start concrete plans a year in advance.

Tbh you're not "very young" to be deciding to marry in 18 months at all. You're a distinctly average age to be doing that given he's firm about marriage before children.

The fact that most marriages these days are of people in their 30s is a red herring because over 50% of babies are born to couples who are not married. The average age for a woman to have a first baby is 29.

If he's not ready to commit to a timeline that's completely fine, but he owes you complete honestly (especially, but not only, because he knows that your health issues mean a real chance of not ever having children if you wait until your 30s to marry and ttc in the second half of your 30s).

I think you need to have a biological discussion with him. Clearly spell out what your condition means and the impact that has on your fertility.

I think if you focus on timelines for starting a family rather than marriage he will start seeing the reasons for not delaying in your situation.
Equally though I think you should both have the conversation about what happens if we try but can never have kids.
A wedding can be as involved and expensive or low key as you want.

I know when I had the conversation with my husband about ages and fertility etc he was totally along the lines for "well then it makes sense to start trying now". We hadn't bought a house (though we were looking) nor were me married at that stage.

@Ijjstdontknow

Also to add I know it’s not advised on here but I would be happy to have kids before marriage, especially because I know the longer I leave it the harder it will be. It’s my DP who’s adamant he wants marriage before kids.

But does he fully understand the impact of pushing back the marriage and therefore pushing back the starting to try to have a family thing? Because I honestly think men don't fully understand the impacts of delaying and he possibly doesn't fully understand the impacts of your endo.

I think it sounds as though he just isn't there yet. He knows that marriage will lead to talk of babies quite quickly and isn't ready for that. It isn't his fault for wanting a slower pace, and it isn't your fault for needing a faster pace. You just have to work out whether waiting for his timescale is worth the risk to your prospects of a future family.

You need to bottom out whether he really does have a 'dream' wedding and what the price is, or if he's using that as an excuse to avoid the commitment.

Its absolutely not a matter of trying to force or persuade, but of being crystal clear so that neither of you are drifting into something that you don't want

Set yourself a deadline (but don't tell him, this is your boundary, not an ultimatum) for how long you are prepared to spend on getting it sorted out. If it does not get sorted out, you have to choose - stay with him with sharply reduced chances of ever having DC. Or move on, in the hope you will find someone who really does want to start a family

Ijjstdontknow having children before marriage isn't always a terrible idea for the mother, if you make sure you go back to work full time (or even better both do a 4 day week and a day of solo childcare) and be sure to be on the ball about not slipping into believing that nursery fees/ pick up and drop off/ child sick days are just your problem and that you working doesn't make sense for that reason. It means that you need to keep a slightly more independent mindset. Not necessarily a bad thing, just a case of awareness.

OP, I understand your medical concerns, but from his perspective he is only 25. It is not unusual he is not ready for marriage and children. Most men are not ready at 25. If I were him would wait for another 5 years or so..

Frankly you can get married and keep it small and simple: mid week, don't book restaurant as a wedding but a lunch (they seem to want to do set menus at a large extra cost), and keep the numbers low, a dry cleaned and beautifully pressed secondhand dress is not detectable as secondhand but looks gorgeous for a minimal cost, so all in you can keep to well within £1K-2.5k max budget.

But I think the main thing is affording to live - if your salary is dropped to maternity pay and then you have nursery fees, how will you actually afford it if in 2-3 years you've saved together you only have £7K & £7K ISAs between you?
I imagine this is his worry: what if he doesn't get a promotion/pay rise in that time? How can he then support you on maternity pay then how will you both afford nursery fees/wrap around care if you go back to your job etc?
I think you need to research the costs for all this, and work out how much everything would cost, and thus where you both need to be on the pay scales/earnings vs nursery fees. If you move outwards for lower rent, and save more, could you get a decent deposit and buy? Can you work towards/apply for promotion within your organisation (so you keep maternity benefits)? Or is there an organisation you can apply to who have superior maternity offering (eg workplace nursery, long period of higher maternity pay)?
How much lower would mortgage repayments be vs rent? Still affordable on 1 salary & Mat pay?

If you both could do a concentrated effort to save as much as you possibly can: think 'do I really NEED this?' before clicking 'buy' or picking off the shelf, you could easily save a very decent deposit in 2 years.

I'd do your facts and figures research, then sit down together and have a chat about it so you're both on the same page re timescales, affordability when on mat leave/nursery costs, savings.
I do understand why he is reluctant 'right now' - lose most of your salary can you afford the high rent where you are? Kids cost ££££., he wants to be in a more stable position, with a house/mortgage (as well as marriage) before kids, I know you sense the clock ticking, but I do think a concentrated save and either buy a house so payments lower than rent to make kids more affordable, or save and then you've a nest egg to tide you over the low pay years of childcare; having kids is in most cases a serious detriment to your own earning/saving power. But you need to consider his worry that it's not affordable now, and look to when it will be affordable, hence do the sums - and talk about it, bearing in mind your time sensitive needs too..

I think the 'when we can afford it' is a red herring, if you want something, you can usually afford it. Especially things like weddings. My db and sil wanted to get married but we're skint, so £125 registrar job and a meal in the local pub. It cost less than £500 inc rings, meal etc

Might be worth explaining to him that being 'ready' for marriage can mean you both could be waiting a very long time - who is ever ready? I'd tell him what time scale you are wanting, and then tell him to have some time to think about it (1 or 2 months?) so he can get used to the idea, and that you will both then sit down for another discussion.

I think you need to be certain in your own mind what is most important to you. Is it loving your partner so much that you want to be with him for the rest of your life? Or is it having a baby?

Of course, ideally both. But there's a chance that may not happen (for many reasons, not just your medical condition).

Your posts sound as though getting pregnant and having a baby is your priority at the moment. That's understandable because your health situation is focussing your mind on it. But it seems a bit extreme to split up, heal and recover emotionally, then look for another partner (who also wants children early in the relationship), then to become stable and settled. Then to start trying to conceive. That could take many years. You've already been with your dp for 3 years, could you imagine getting to this point earlier in a new relationship?

The discussions you are having now sound very vague. Your 'sooner rather than later'; his 'in next few years'; your 'some progression' within the next 18 months. Is your timeframe to conceive within the next 2 years? Is his timeframe to have set a wedding date within the next 2 years? Do you have a shared 5 year plan? One that includes savings goals, plans to buy a house (if that's what you want). If you agreed a shared plan which included a baby in 5 years would that be enough for you? How can you agree to compromise on your priorities - is your biological clock more important than his priority for stability of marriage, and living situation? Only you can know the answers.

@LalalalalalaLand123

I think you and he need to have a talk. When did you anticipate getting married? I take is sooner than 'the next few years' - so this year, next year, the year after? I think you need to talk about your medical condition, and the impact it will have on getting pregnant. I wouldn't have thought, and perhaps he thinks this too, that a couple of years' delay at your young age would make much of a difference - but I am speaking in complete ignorance and maybe it will make a huge difference.

A major issue is his commitment - why does he want to wait? does he feel he's too young for marriage and kids? Honestly the cost of the wedding is, to me, a red herring, you can have a lovely wedding with the amount you have in savings, or less.

At the moment my pelvis is completely frozen with the endometriosis and my Fallopian tubes are covered in scar tissue. They have removed a lot of it in the past but it’s obviously come back and I have no idea what current state it is as there’s a huge delay for surgery. Eventually I will be having a hysterectomy to manage my symptoms. As for my other condition I think if I was under consultant management and was older the pregnancy would be okay, would have to be closely managed. Although I’m not sure how happy they would be to give me IVF. The fertility clinic here won’t accept referrals until we’ve been trying for 18 months which 18 months after a wedding in a few years is quite late especially considering I might not be a good IVF candidate.

He talks about proposing but I’m not even bothered about that but if that’s what he wants to do I guess I’d like to have been engaged to be married within the next 6 months.

To answer another posters question I have no idea why it’s so important to get married first. His parents aren’t. It’s something he’s always said to me from early on though.

I think the best thing is to calmly talk to him about your concerns and ask him whether he has in his mind a minimum age for certain things, whether he fully, fully understands about your fertility, what options he would consider to up the time scale for kids (e.g having a registry office wedding and then planning a big wedding blessing/party in 5 years etc). See what progress that conversation has. I don’t think you should write him off.

You need to nail down a timeline so you can make an informed decision.n

But I think the main thing is affording to live - if your salary is dropped to maternity pay and then you have nursery fees, how will you actually afford it if in 2-3 years you've saved together you only have £7K & £7K ISAs between you?

I don’t think money is the problem. His problem is “affording a wedding” which is what upset me because you can get married for a few hundred if you wanted to.

We haven’t really been saving for anything which is why we don’t have loads in savings. We save x amount into savings and that’s it. I was also doing my MA for the first year so saved nothing. We also pay £1000 + £120pm for a parking space in our two bed city centre flat. When we move out of the city in 6 months we’ll be looking at around £750 for a 3 bedroom house so will help us save a significant amount.

I do agree that we need to sit down and properly talk and see if he means afford like our life or just a wedding. Obviously he might just not be ready at all which he’s perfectly entitled to, but I guess I’m entitled to the truth of that as well.

If my best friend hadn't just had her baby, i would have thought it was her writing this! She was exactly the same with her endo, she had lost a fallopian tube already through an ectopic pregnancy, she finally started trying officially and was pregnant within 1 month - from the ovary with no tube! So, I do have hope for you getting pregnant and that it won't be as horrendous as it may seem now

I don't think anyone is in the wrong. I think you need to really clearly set out what timeline you want, and he does, and see if there is a compromise anywhere. If not, then you will have to leave.

To answer another posters question I have no idea why it’s so important to get married first. His parents aren’t. It’s something he’s always said to me from early on though.

@Ijjstdontknow It might be because his parents aren't married that it is so important to him. I know it was for me. I told DH I wanted to be married before kids as it was important that he committed to me before we committed to a family. I met him at 31, engaged at 33, married and pregnant our DD at 34.

Like you I knew I wanted kids but unlike you had no fertility related issues. One thing though is I read your post and interpreted it as "I love him but I want kids more" ie willing to consider leaving him to have them.
Could it be he worries you want kids more than him hence his push for marriage first?

He knew your medical condition from the start. He must have seen you in pain with endo and therefore he cannot be blind to the fact that time is not on your side. The longer the endo has to rampage through your body the more damage it can cause.

Dh and I were married for 18 months when I was diagnosed with endo. It was a shock. However, he was with me every step of the way, from meds to a chemical menopause in my late twenties, surgery to remove the deposits etc. We were told if we wanted a baby then now is the time. We honestly were not ready however it was a case of now or maybe never. I knew how much scar tissue I had from them seeing it first hand.

You need to lay it out for him. I will say this and I stand by it, if you want something, you will find a way, if you don't, you will find an excuse.

Re being married absolutely get married first. I cannot work due to the fatigue and pain from endo. I have a TENs machine attached to me for every period, it genuinely feels like I am in labour every month. My endo diagnosis was 21 years ago. I was incredibly lucky to have my "miracle" baby 18 years ago, and then Ds2 3 years later.

@Ijjstdontknow

Hi, I was wondering if anyone could weigh in with some advice on my situation. I’m not sure if I need to give my head a wobble or not.

Current situation is me and DP are both 25 and have been together coming up to 3 years. Have lived together for two. Have discussed marriage and kids before and agreed it’s something we would both like, DP pretty insistent he wants to get married before having kids.

My predicament is this: I have stage 4 endometriosis for which I have been waiting a full excision for almost 18 months. This has obviously been delayed massively due to COVID. Because of the intensity of my Endo, even though they have removed a lot of it once I have a lot of scar tissue. I know that this will make it harder for me to conceive. This means I would like to have kids sooner rather than later, DP knows this and it’s something we have discussed in detail before.

I fully thought we were on the same page until last night when we were discussing our friends who recently got married. I made a jokey comment about when were we getting married and he replied “when we can afford it” I was a bit ? So questioned this and then he said hopefully it’s doable in the next few years.

I’m really upset about this and I don’t know what to do. If we don’t think about marriage until the next few years and then kids after that it will be considerably harder for me to have them. I also have a chronic condition that would not make me the ideal candidate for IVF, and it also means that the older I get it will probably be harder for my body to physically carry a baby.

I know we are very young but I just feel like my internal clock is screaming at me and I don’t know what to do. We are tied into a tenancy agreement that has 6 months left and before we looked for somewhere else this was a conversation I was going to have with him because if we signed on for another 12 months I would be nearly 27 coming out of that and I’d definitely want to know we’d be making some progression by then.

I obviously know that I can’t make him do what I want and if I did that would be a recipe for disaster. But I also need to do what’s best for myself. If I left him and didn’t meet someone and couldn’t have kids at least that would be my own choice. I don’t want to end up resenting him. I don’t know if I should wait until our tenancy end date is nearer and have a serious conversation with him (and see what happens in the mean time) or just tell him we’re clearly not on the same page and rip the plaster off now.

For context we both have secure stable jobs, his more so as it is government in a position where they are crying out for more staff. Combined we have about 7k in cash savings and a similar amount in ISAs. We could save more if we wanted to but we just send over a set amount to savings every month. We have no debts and both drive. We currently live in a city (not London) but pay premium rent. When this tenancy ends we were discussing moving out of the city and into a house where our rent would drop a considerable amount meaning we could put more into ISAs to buy.

We had a cheap enough wedding.

I had a lovely wedding dress. That's all that mattered to me the most.

The price of the wedding never equals happy marriage + a baby/children soon or very soon.

We never waited for years.

We met each other and got married after 9 months because we lived in different countries and wanted to be together as a family.

Have you discussed the possibility of having babies before a wedding instead?

OP I definitely think you need to sit down seriously with him to impress the importance and realities of your medical conditions on him.

As PP said, since you are both young, it's likely that he's not really appreciating the reality of the situation and how hard it could genuinely be for you both to have children even now, let alone down the line. He has likely not researched into your conditions and doesn't understand the full impact they could have.

I would have a really serious chat with him and outline exactly what the struggles are likely to be, and impress on him that this is why you'd much prefer to start trying earlier. It may be that he has a rethink and agrees to start trying for a baby before marriage or agrees to get married sooner once he understands how things really stand for you both when it comes to having children.

I can only imagine how hard it is for both of you to have to deal with this so young, but you obviously have a better understanding as it's all been happening to you over the years and you've had things explained in a way he likely hasn't. I'd focus on impressing it on him and gauging his reaction before making any further decisions about leaving etc.

My ultra cynical brain is thinking that it might well be more important to get married first as that’s something that can be put off and postponed - we’ll get married when -fill in the blank-.

Whereas having a child isn’t, should you fall pregnant.

Of course, that is a very cynical way of looking at things, it’s just so many women seem to come on these boards with a variation of their OH agreeing to a baby - but it never quite happens for x or y reason - often going into years and years. Again, could be cynicism, you are both quite young still, so maybe he just doesn’t feel ready yet. However as you’ve said, he’s been aware it’s better for you to try sooner rather than later. Honesty, if it were me, i’d suggest a simple wedding in the next few months and to start trying to conceive by this time next year at the latest (given your timeframes) and see what he says.

It’s not wrong of him to not be ready yet btw of that is the case but he needs to be honest with you. If you don’t know why this marriage thing is so important to him it’s possible he doesn’t know either - because it’s not about the marriage but delaying a decision on TTC.