"But we took you to stately homes"... a thread for adult children of abusive families

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This thread is a follow up to "My mother has cut me out of her life - long sorry" because we reached the end of the thread life.

I originally posted on that thread to say that my mother had blamed me for something that was in fact her fault, called me a liar, got the rest of the family to gang up on me and then blamed me for splitting up the family.

It generated a huge amount of interest from a number of women who, like me, had grown up in an abusive, or "toxic" family environment where we had been the scapegoat or the dustbin for our parents to dump their own unresolved difficulties. My mother, like all our mothers, has refused to apologise for what she has done and many of us have cut ties with our families in order to recover our lost selves and self-esteem.

oneplusone, I don't think my mother was capable of love.

I don't really care now either tbh, much rather know she has no love for me than is crying into her pillow at not having seen me for the last 6 years (6 years this time next week!! amazing how long it has been).

At first it hurt, but I think it came as a realisation when I was already aware iyswim. I thought why this and why that, realising it was because she didn't love me just made things clearer in my head.

Earlybird-I had panic attacks years ago and was tired of it- a deep part of my brain recognized that the threat wasn't real so took either a cavalier or suicidal (probably more suicidal) posture and pretty much thought-'well come on then and get it over with'-what ever the perceived threat was (bad guys coming to attack). I remember I was at my sewing machine waiting...any time now... well???? Of course nothing happened. I did this two or three times and the panic attacks stopped, permanently. So did the voices in the duct work when the furnace cuts on...

I am not overly religious, but consider my self spiritual and recognize faith in a higher authority. With that said...
I was able to manage (but not yet permanently silence) the critical parent in my head by assigning a speaker to that verbiage...not my mother/sister/boss/xbf/myself but it was the devil talking. Banish the devil, that manipulative trickster. Of course, he'll never give up, (NPD? ), but I don't listen to him anymore. Brush those thoughts aside like a puff of smoke.
I don't know if any of that can help in your circumstances but knowing you want to change and looking for strategies-you are well on your way!

The word "brainwashed" comes to mind reading about parents casting children in roles. That may be another avenue to research for ways to clarify the truth...that you are valid, worthy, lovable, smart, competent, etc.

Lisa-so sorry for your terribly sad circumstances with your Dad. You love your Dad. I think he knows that and can feel it whether you are in his presence or not.

Oneplusone, Danae, Smithfield and others feeling no love from Mom. I'm there too, recently-since joining this thread. It is painful and I am not quite sure: words or feelings, facts or imagination (am I remembering correctly?)

Grieving childhood lost-yes, makes sense.

In the 'just get over it department' (that is sooo superficial! )...
Scars-consider war veterans or bodily harm victims-plainly seen physical scars. I think by a certain age (well, some are scarred much earlier than others ), everyone is scarred-it just shows more in some (vets) than others (me). So I'm scarred, so what? (I mean I'm not looking for a pity party.)
Heal the wound: self-validate, the sadness remains-the scar. I'm at 'just live with it' with help from self-forgiveness as that is who I am and so that(I) is(am) what I have to work with. Cope with it, deal with it, and live in the present. So the 'just get over it' part for me is accepting the fact that there is sadness in my life, but it isn't going to take over my life.

This was composed in the moment, so I am sorry if it is muddled (or misguided!).

Take care,
Love,
TMSB

Message withdrawn

Danae, smithfield and Victoriansqualor, thank you so much for your comments/advice, they have really helped.

Danae, I'm sure you know far more than I do but I understand what you mean about the brain being hard wired in a particular way during the first few years of life. I have looked at a book called "Why Love Matters - How Affection Shapes a Baby's Brain" (I think that's the correct title) by Sue Gerhard (I think) and it talks about the same thing that you have mentioned ie chemical processes and responses are set for life in the first few years. It's strange how I have come across material that is relevant to me, I have stumbled across so much stuff not when looking for myself but when just randomly picking up books with the intention of trying to become a better parent to my DC's.

I totally agree with you in stopping the rot and I absolutely intend the 'buck to stop with me' and I am determined to give my DC's all the love and support that I never got.

I guessed at what you have said about the pain and sadness never quite passing, I can imagine it just feels less intense with time but i know the sadness will always be there, like a hole inside me that will never be filled.

In my case there are some things that make it easier to bear in that there were things my mum did that showed she did care about me a little if not love me, and I suppose i can take some comfort from that.

Smithfield, thank you, I know time is the best healer as they say so you are right. Thank you also for pointing out the fact that my mother's relationship with my sisters may not be as 'perfect' as it seems to me at the moment. I have been thinking a bit more deeply about their relationship recently and I think you may be right in that my mother was probably not capable of a truly healthy and real connection with my sisters. In fact the more I think about it I think their relationship was also a 'role reversal' to an extent ie my sisters were/are the parents to my mother.

Victoriansquaor, i totally get what you say about the realisation coming whilst you were already aware to a degree, that's exactly how I feel. I was always aware that things weren't right between me and my mum and like you say thinking 'why' this and 'why' that, and like you said the realisation has simply made sense of a lot of things that have happened and now i feel almost silly that it's taken me so long to actually come to the realisation as now that i have it's so obvious.

Danae and pages- could i ask if either of you went over your past initially with your therapists.
I dont want to be jumping the gun or anything but Im currently about to have my 3rd session tommorrow and we are currently doing a life-line, which means going back to the beginning. I feel like I more wnat to focus on the present IYSWIM, and deal with current behaviours. Maybe we all have to go over the old ground first though?
Would be grateful for yours, and any others thoughts on this.
I dont know why but I dont feel happy about the therapy so far. But I think it's probably too soon to say?
Did you feel you were getting to grips with things straight away or did it take some time?

Message withdrawn

Danae-think you have just hit the nail on the head and given me a huge realisation at the same time. This 'is' exactly what I was doing. It did lessen after I met dh and even more so after ds. But yes like I was desperately routing around trying to find stuff to validate myself and fill some huge gaping hole!

Message withdrawn

thanks danae. I know I probably need to give it longer. Maybe I am looking for a way out already .

Ok I posted today as J (start of name) new poster but wanted to post this under a different name, will change back afterwards.

I've never actually told anyone what went on in my home as a child. I find it quite difficult talking about it.

My mum used to mentally and physically abuse me. In a way I don't blame her because she was on many different tablets including tranquillisers and beta blockers for her illness. The dr kept her on them for around 20 years, she's off them now and is like a different person.

My father is disabled, paralysed and wasn't there during the day when all this went on. They did argue though, screaming and shouting and throwing/breaking things.

When they argued was the first time I cut myself, it was a release. It was the only was I could deal with it at the time. I am an only child, thankfully.

I spent my whole childhood worried and anxious, I remember not much about it, I guess a lot I've blocked out. I do remember my mum beating up my nan (her mother) and nearly calling the police every time but she always told me that if I did I would be put into care and that children in care got abused.

She used to hit and punch her, sometimes she would have black eyes and always bruises and once had a broken ankle. The more I read thsi back the less normal it seems but in my head I think I've normalised it.

I walked on eggshells all my life when I was young and I didn't really feel like a child. I used to spend my time trying to calm her down, making tea etc and trying to make sure things went the way she wanted them too.

I remember one night (my dad wasn't there) my mum and nan were in the kitche, I was in bed and I heard her shouting. The kitten we had came into my room and I took it out. It kept coming in so I kept taking it back out and I saw my mum with a carving knife held to me nan. I ran back to bed and she followed me. She held the knife to my throat and told me she would kill me if I came out again. When the kitten came back I brought it in bed with me and cuddled it.

She cut my nan that night with that knife, every time I see a similar one now I remember.

So much more went on, that is just some of it.

I feel like I have a different mother now though. My nan is dead, she died from cancer when I was 15 and I always regret that I could never say sorry to her for not helping her more. My nan was like a mother to me and I miss her every day. Before she died she told me all she wanted was to see me grow up, get married and have a family. I did all that and I hope she can see me now.

I've suffered with depression and anxiety and still get panic attacks now and again.

Am I odd for having a "normal" relationship with my mother now? We see each other most days (and my dad) and she dotes on her grandchild (I have 3 children).

Sorry for how long this is, I think I'll go back to my normal name on here after this but I might stick to this one, am unsure.

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ss- so sorry for your story. No I dont think you are odd at all. I know I for one (although I dont compare the level of my abuse with yours of course) normalised my childhood. I think its a coping strategy we use as children.
The reason you probably have depression (I found this applied to me anyway) is because you probably buried any feelings you had then and disconnected somehow in order to survive. But those emotions have to go soemwhere. There was probably a lot of anger toward your mother and that has to go somewhere so you unleash it on yourself-hence the depression.
Can I ask how would you feel and how do you think she would re-act if you tackled this with her? If she would allow you to talk and was willing to listen you would find that incredibly healing. Do you think she would be able to handle this?

lisa- sorry if you felt anyone was labelling your father, it appears the abuse was directed more at him than you whilst you were a child?. He does seem like a lovely man. I would have loved to have had that kind of focus and attention from either of my parents.
I feel so sad for your situation, but I can only speak what is in my heart and that is that whatever you decide I would not allow your dcs anywhere near your mother.
I feel so at your mother physically diminishing your child's self worth in that manner, by slapping her face.
I know its a dilemma for you but would you be able to keep her from your dc's at least.

Smithfield - thanks for the reply. I don't see mine as any worse than yours, it's all soul destroying, if you see what I mean. I'm not depressed at the moment (I don't think) but anxiety comes and goes and I find lots of things difficult to do.

I've hinted things in the past when we've had disagreements but I think she feels bad about what happened too. I'm not even sure I even know where to start with her, we have a great relationship now. Talk on the phone daily if we don't see each other, seems like the perfect mother-daughter relationship. If I think about it I feel bad that it seems so normal and happy now, bad for my nan but it really seems as if she was a different person back then.

Some of the things that went on I can barely bring myself to think about never mind talk about to her, I also wouldn't want to end up crying. My first memory is of her stabbing my nan in the leg with a compass, sounds so odd even to me but it happened and I can remember it vividly, even the sound my nan made when she did it. I'm not sure where it would leave my mother and me if I spoke with her about this. It seems such a long time ago that I feel I should just let it go. It's been 12ish years? The abuse carried on after my nan died but as I got older I stood up to her as much as I could and it gradually stopped.

SQ- What you can't do is just let it go. That would be at the cost of your own emotional health.
What is happening now (in fact what has always happened) is you are putting your mother's needs first, so you are in fact parenting her.
I understand talking with her not being an option. I tried with mine many times but according to her it either 'never happened' or 'at least she didn't take drugs or put me in a home'...oh so thats ok then .
I just thought given the circumstances it was worth asking the question.
I think I suggested in my last post- the book by susan forward, toxic parents. Its a good starting point. She even talks about kids growing up with parents who are mentally ill in one chapter, which would be relevant to you. You need to validate your feelings and so books are a great place to start, so is this thread, a journal and if you can a therapist.
Just by starting to write about your past experiences on here, you will find as a form of release. Its another way of getting in touch with and venting those emotions you've shoved down deep within yourself.
Do you mind me asking if you are still self-harming now?

Smithfield - I've heard of that book before but never thought I needed it, I think I mostly block it all out so that I can carry on, maybe reading it would be helpful so I'll look it up.

In a way I'm scared of talking more about what I experienced in case more things are brought up that I don't remember now. I have very few memories of my childhood at all and they are mostly bad. I tried a psychologist once years ago but didn't get on with him, maybe I should try again. I always worry that people either won't believe me or will think I am making something out of nothing. I hate crying in front of people too, even dh, I rarely do.

I will start to think about things and write them here, I don't really want to keep a journal just in case anyone found it. I don't self-harm anymore, haven't for about 6 years. I still get the urge to though, if I argue with dh the first thing I think about it doing it. I have stopped myself a number of times when I've been really upset. I have scars from it too which make me quite self conscious.

Thank you for your help, writing this has helped me feel a bit better, it's good to get things out.

SQ- yes, please keep posting, glad you've taken this step. it was obviously an extremely difficult one.
I am only a novice on here. Ally, sakura or pages will post in reply to you soon and you will find their responses tend to be very helpful as they have come so far in the whole process IYSWIM. Plus its always good to get different perspectives by others who know exactly where you are coming from.

Dilinger, I hope this thread will be useful to you. You sound like you are at the really beginning of this long, rocky journy, but I mean that in a good way. Because it might seem to you like you have to feel the way you do forever, but you honestly won't. COming on here is so helpful and I think this thread helps people push throught the process more quickly-by just gulping and jumping off the deep-end and standing up to their mothers. I think this thread helps us to break our problems down into day to day bite-sized pieces. If we're feeling particularly bad, we can just log on here, get it all down and know that someone else knows what we've been through and is a few steps further down the line than us- we can see where we have to be.
Your mother's behaviour is atrocious. I'm sure many people on here can relate to most aspects of what you said. I also had experiences of my mother favouring my brothers' girlfriends over me. Its like she wanted their approval without giving a shit about my feelings . She's mad, you're not. just come on here and write about whatever you like. I use it as my morning therapy. I just log on and type what I like (sorry everyone!)

Danae, I can't remember the scientific words, but has there been new research to show that the brain can start creating new "connections", and can re-learn behaviour? I really hope so. I'm sure not all the damage can be restored, but perhaps certain aspects of our personality, like anger, can be changed and re-learned. I read somewhere that if we alter our response to something, albeit superficially, like not raging in anger in anger or something,(perhaps just breathing slowly until its passed) then our brain starts to understand this new way of reacting and with time it becomes natural to react in this new way. A kind of re-learning.
But I know this doesn't really help things. Sometimes when I think back to the little girl I was of about 7 or 8, I have an image of the person I could have been; a little girl capable of giving and loving abundantly. My paternal grandmother recently told me out of the blue that I was "so caring" with my brothers when I was a child. This was a big shock to me, and really was on catalyst to me cutting my mother out. I had just assumed I had always been "bad", "selfish". But to hear first hand evidence that there had been a caring little girl inside me, whose love been stamped out by her mother, was really sad.

oneplusone, I think one of the hardest things is understanding that our mothers were abused in some way, and definitely did not have their childhood needs met. They must have gone through something bad to have turned out as shit as they did.
Of course we empathise and feel sorry for them. To know this and to still cut them out of our lives feels so callous. I can really empathise with my mother,because of course, I know what its like not to have received love. But for me, at the end of the day, it was just survival, me or her. And I chose me.

Its true that its so difficult to accept that my mother didn't love me. I think thats why so many people prefer to brush their mother's behaviour under the carpet. Much easier to believe you were "born bad" than to believe the truth: that you were born good, but you just weren't loved by your mother!
I still try to drag up good memories in order to convince myself that I was loved, but the more I think about it, the less convinced I am. For example, the good memories stand out in my mind as proof that I was loved. But when I compare the amount of good memories to the sheer quantity of bad memories, its obvious she wasn't nice very often. And I realise that the good memories are so pronounced simply because they were so rare. Once, on holiday, my favourite song came on the radio, and she turned to me with an almost self-satisfied "what a great person I am" grin, and turned it up. I was so happy and grateful, that I remember that act of kindness until this day so clearly. I was loved. But of course I wasn't. And even now I realised that the "good" things she did, like buy me something, were often done to serve her image of herself as the "giver", the martyr.

So, no, I don't think its ever possible to come to terms with the fact we weren't loved. But I think its so so healing to have a child and realise that they are just born perfect, and to realise that there was nothing in us that ever caused our mothers not to love us. Babies are all too scrumptious and gorgeous for that to be true. Having DD has made me realise how ill my mother really was/is.
And we can remember that they too were given this chance. They too had a delicious little baby in their arms.

StayingQuiet, welcome to the thread. I was amazed to read about your mother attacking her mother. But its good that you received validation and love from your nan and thats probably whats helping you to look at what happened right now. There was nothing you could have done to help your nan- you were the child, and it wasn't your place or your responsibility, so please don't think in those terms. All of us here feel a huge sense of responsibility for things that we couldn't have been responsible for, because as children we were made to believe that everything was our fault, including our mothers' unhappiness.

Hi all!

Only flashing through again and noticed StayingQuiets post...

When the abuse becomes 'normal' and not something to comment on within your home during your childhood, this carries on into adulthood. What I think you are doing now is starting to reassess your childhood with adult eyes and seeing things for what they were, but the old message you got from your mother is on replay 'all normal, nothing unusual, no one will believe you'. So question this constantly. Was it normal? Do you do these things to your children/mother? Was it unusual/out of place? ie if you saw these things happening in a friends house what would you do? and as for believing you. That's a deep rooted one, if your mother constantly disregarded your feelings then you will constantly question your 'gut' feeling and this leads you to doubt yourself and if you doubt yourself how could anyone else believe you? So I think (fumbling in dark because I still struggle with this one myself) you need to make an effort to listen to your 'gut' feeling and start trusting it again. What your mother did was not okay, when she made out it was okay, that was not okay, when she denied your feelings, that was not okay. Your gut feeling was right and deserves time and space to be heard and to be recognised by you and by anyone else you choose to speak to/type too.

As for your current confusion, it isn't going to just go away. If you do manage to bury it, as Smithfield said, it will damage you emotionally/physically ie anxiety attacks etc. Toxic Parents is a good start. Next find a good therapist, and even though you may feel a numpty for going and all sorts of thoughts like 'i shouldn't be here, s/he won't believe me, they should be talking to someone with real problems' don't worry I think we all feel that way. Or just feel like a nutter . Even with my just emotional abuse I was taken very seriously and accepted totally for who I was and what I felt.

If you sense from your mother her guilt/sorrow at what happened...this could be a good sign. But treat it with caution, she may not want to go back there, but if she values your relationship, she will go back for you to validate your experience and to acknowledge what went on. But I think therapy for you first so you are well supported if and when you feel ready to say something to her. And if you choose not too...that's a valid choice too. Saying something is difficult. I said what I had to say in a letter/text.

best of luck, and keep posting.

Sakura (and others that have replied to me) thankyou. I wanted to post on here the other day but didnt think that what I was feeling was 'bad enough' to warrant any support, so thanks for the acceptance.

I sometimes think maybe my partner will get sick of me going on about this, but it feels like Im just 'waking up', like a huge dawning of realisation is occuring. It hurts. Sometimes I worry that I wont be a very good mother to my children, and that brings a huge sense of fear. What if Im as angry as her, yet also not bothered to try and change? I hope that this year will help me learn how to deal with things.

Ive always felt like the odd one out, and just been known as the 'shy, quiet one'. Ive suffered terribly with nerves, no confidence, panic attacks etc. My blushing has been a big thing to laugh about and as a person all I am is a bundle of nerves.

Since moving away my lifestyle changed. I stopped smoking and drugs, became vegetarian and now try to take care of myself properly. I try and do my best for my son, he eats well and I dont give him things that are bad for him. Im hoping to take him to some toddler groups this year despite my own nerves because I know they will be beneficial to him. In doing all this and trying to be a better person, its been suggested that perhaps my mum is actually jealous now to some extent. When I first heard that I was shocked - how could a mum be jealous of their child? But now Ive had time to think about it, it makes sense. My partner is kind and loving, supportive and does his share with our son and our home. Hes patient and he listens to me. Ive got a terrible employment record - Ive had some wonderful jobs but for a reason I cant yet put my finger on I always leave them. I dont know why I do it, but despite that and the days when I cant go outside he never gives up on me. Dad on the other hand shows no appreciation or support to mum, they can never afford to do anything etc although theyve always got money to go to the local. On the odd time she has been to ours shes always in a spiteful mood. I cant say anything without her picking an argument, or twisting or 'mishearing' what Ive said. She makes a mess, doesnt use any manners etc its like shes trying to push me down to that little girl again. I shocked myself once by actually turning around and replying 'well if you dont like it here then why dont you go home?' - knowing full well she couldnt as she replies on us for her travel. I honestly thought she was going to hit me again. My dp has tried to talk to her, and to my brother but they really dont think the problems with them. I think sometimes she thinks Im a bit 'snobby' or whatever whereas I just think Im trying to make the best of things.

The brothers girlfriend thing gets on my nerves, she 15 for fsake and yet sits in the kitchen smoking with my mum, drinking alcohol and being 'sneaked' drinks at the pub. She stays over whenever she wants. I think its unappropriate behaviour whereas my mother thinks its 'just a bit of fun'. Its none of my business ok but sometimes I wonder how it all affects my sister. She'll be 10 this year and I just want her to have a better time than I did.

Im angry that I wasnt encouraged or supported with anything, and despite all the crap I feel pretty bloody shit for 'telling' everyone here about it, like its family stuff and should be kept in the family, but what are you meant to do when its been hanging over you your entire life?

It hurts that they couldnt arrange to see us for an hour at xmas, I was going to go anyway and just put up with it for the day but then I thought 'hang on - maybe if we dont go then theyll see how serious I am about this, and maybe theyll do something about it'. They didnt, and even after that I still feel that Im the one that should be going to them all the time, even though after an hour I'll be in tears wishing I hadnt bothered, and my dad and brother will be in the pub. Then when I say we're leaving its all 'innocent wide eyed faces' and ''oh youre not going already are you?'' I feel bad that I dont go, but if I go I feel bad for not staying longer, or I feel terribly out of place. And yet I feel all the time that the buck stops with me, and its up to me to take my family to them.

DP's parents are wonderful, they have time for me and we do things together, even just little things like eating together, I enjoy all that but it reminds me just how not like that my own family are. I think if I hadnt seen so much of dps family these past couple of months I wouldnt feel so obliged to visit my own - they obv dont feel that bad or theyd have done something about it. They dont even phone me, didnt wish me a merry xmas or happy new year etc. The small things all add up into one big thing and I just dont know what Im doing.

Do I visit them this weekend and 'give in' yet again or am I doing the right thing regarding my son? Or is my son seeing me upset and in a state of anxiety every time we go too much to put him through? I wanted him to have a good relationship with them but why should it always fall on me to?

Its a case of out of sight out of mind, I hoped my brother mightve grown up a bit by now but hes got no need to. They all hurt me and cause me so much pain but I love them still. Can I live without them? Im alone where I am anyway so maybe its not much of a step further from where I am already. My dad isnt very well and doesnt look after himself, I worry what Id do if he died - would I blame myself? What happens when this baby arrives? When I had ds, WE had to drive 3 hours to see THEM, and even then my dad was down the pub and didnt exactly rush to see us and meet his grandson. I think it'll have to be the same again this time if I want them to meet my baby, however part of me wants to not bother going to them, or paying for travel etc just to see what happens.

I dont know what to say to anyone on here, its such a difficult thing to be going through and I feel for everyone.

Dillinger - Do you have any support in place at the moment? How supportive is your dp? Do you have any supportive friends?

If you don't have any supportive friends, that can be a sign of an abusive childhood, we tend to attract people who fulfil old family roles. Such as I used to attract friends like my sister, dominatant and bullying and unempathetic.

Can you get more councelling? Maybe privately? If not through GP? Its worth another go. Have you bought 'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward? That is a good place to start before anything else.

And back to the point I was getting at before I got sidetracked (again!) separation from your family may be a good idea. It will give you back some power. Not to hurt them but to protect yourself and your dc. You have so much anger right now, I'm guessing its going to be very difficult to get to your 'older' anger. Time out from your family would allow you to feel more in control and calmer. You have every right to do this. You come first equally with your dc now. If breaking all contact seems challenging, you could just make no effort to contact them for X months. If they contact you, let it be brief and understand that they may react in various ways to your withdrawal.

Hope you find what is best for yourself and dc xx

Dillinger;

In terms of cuttig them out(even if it's for a period of time,), I think you have already proved distance from them has had a positive impact on your self esteem.

Since moving away my lifestyle changed. I stopped smoking and drugs, became vegetarian and now try to take care of myself properly.

I honestly think if you pull away from these people you will go from strength to strength

I dont have a lot of support here - Im friends with my neighbour and shes great but when Ive said about this before (when I was going through a particularly dificult time) she really tried to understand but had to say that she possibly couldnt as she has such a fab relationship with her family. I dont have any other friends here - Ive got friends that are my dps friends so no one Id really want to talk to about anything like this. Ive never had a lot of friends which sometimes I regret but I find it hard to make friends, its been so long Im not sure Id know what to do. I wonder sometimes if I come across as stand offish whereas its purely nerves and fear of rejection that holds me back. I usually prefer being alone (Im not sure if prefer is the right word - I just find it easier maybe as thats what Im used to) but then when Id like a friend theres no one there.

Ive changed surgeries recently so I will enquire again about counselling, hopefully they can give me a time when dp is home from work. Im afraid private isnt an option however I will try and get that book asap.

I can see where youre coming from with regard to taking my own time out for a few months, and possibly breaking away from them, the funny thing is if they werent my family Id never dream of trying to have some kind of relationship with people like that!