Help me process what's just happened.

[kelseypops]

This is long and I'll never be able to explain the full story. I am mentally drained.

I left H 2 weeks ago and staying at my mums. H I believe has narcissist traits and possibly some emotional abuse. I'm very confused by all this and I start counselling next week.

H has been up and down the whole time I've been at my mums. He's been caring, he's told me it's over, he's told me to get my things, he's told me I'm mentally unstable, he's apologised, he's begging for me back, he's finally agreeing to marriage counselling. I understand he's hurt and very upset.

Our relationship was pretty much over until last night. We still need to car share and DS is with me at my mums so I am still seeing him but only so he can see DS and get the car when needed. He has started to use the spare car key so we don't need to communicate but DS saw him last night as he came to collect it....he had gone home to an empty wardrobe as I moved all my clothes earlier in the day so he was upset. DS isn't well and that upset him that he wasn't there too look after him. Not that he ever did. He never did anything which is one of the many reasons I left.

Since then he has not stopped contacting me about getting back together. He has some sort of hold over me and even though I don't want to go back, I can't seem to be strong. I haven't agreed to go back, I just haven't said anything and he's done all the talking as usual.

One minute he says he loves me, the next he says he's having 'thoughts' that I am messaging other people - I'm not! The next he's saying he's lovely and Xmas is coming and what is he going to do, and then that goes into he wants me home and the whole cycle starts again.

I sent him a very long message to say he is not helping my mental health and I need time and space and basically to just back off. He then tells me he is going to leave me alone and wait for me to contact him. He is on the way to collect his dcs up (my step children) and our DS can see his siblings tomorrow.

He then calls again and I ignore the call.

The next thing I know he's at my mums door with his dcs asking if he and the dcs can come in because they want to see my and my dcs (from a previous relationship). I love my step kids very much, I couldn't say no to them! They know we have separated and so do my dcs.

I was so angry I was shaking. It was incredibly awkward but I could not say no. It was the worst possible situation I could be put in.

So all the dcs start playing like nothing has ever happened except for dsd who is sat on the sofa crying. It was awful.

I shouted at H in the kitchen asking why he would put dsd through this. He told me he was calling to ask if they could come but I declined the call. Even if I answered the call, I would of been on loud speaker and it would of been incredibly awkward for me to say no seeing them.

H then carried on bombarding me with reasons why we need to be together.

I'm so emotionally drained. They have gone now and I had a takeaway ordered. I feel numb.

Just to add - I'm staying at my mums but she is away this weekend.

What an idiot I am, I have absolutely no idea what to do next

Just another tactic OP. It isn't real. Just words. Actions speak louder than words and look at his shitty awful actions.

He's sent me a message to say at least he wasn't a horrible husband like beating me up or cheating on me. I haven't responded. He witnessed his dad beat his mum as a child so I'm guessing this is where these thoughts are coming from.

One thing to understand is that many abusers have a 'no-go' zone of behaviour that they know is wrong (often because they themselves have suffered from this exact behaviour, so they have a personal understanding of the pain it causes, and therefore can have empathy for others in regard to it).

They tell themselves they cannot be an abuser because they would never 'do that'. However what they don't recognise is how low their own 'would never' bar is.

Healthy people have a much, much higher 'would never' bar.

Healthy people would never verbally abuse and denigrate their partners. They would never manipulate them emotionally to keep them under control. They would never ignore or dismiss them when they were in emotional pain. They would never hide money from them, or lie to them about significant aspects of their relationship or make promises they were unable or unwilling to genuinely live up to. They would never threaten them with things that would cause them deep pain, like taking their children away. They would never insist on sex when it was clear their partner wasn't in the mood. They would never say mean things to them and then act like they were only joking.

If they did any of these things unthinkingly or by accident, and their partner pointed them out as hurtful, they would immediately admit it, and apologise, and do what they could to make amends (actually make amends, not just promise to fix it and do nothing much).

Why the hell do I now start doubting every little thing I've said and felt? Like it wasn't that bad? Why do I start feeling sorry for him and that he isn't a narcissist/emotional abuser at all just because he says he's letting me go?

Again, remember, he is just looking for a reaction. "I'm letting you go" is his pity play to make you feel sorry for him and to start making an effort to fix the situation yourself. It's a cue for you to go "You don't have to let me go, you just have to work harder, I don't want to give you up completely.... just be a better husband." It's a signal for you to keep the battle going.

The best response is no response. But if you absolutely feel you have to respond, just respond with acceptance. "Okay. I'm not going to fight you or fight for you. Do what you feel is right."

What CheekyHobson said x 1000.

All he wants is to know he is getting under your skin. Any response on your part is satisfying to him, whether it's you telling him how upset or angry you are, or how little you care for him. As long as you are making contact he is happy.

He doesn't want a loving relationship. All this talk he is doing now means nothing. It's noise designed to attract your attention. It's hooks he is dangling into the water and you are the fish. It's just words, and words are cheap.

He wants to know he has power over you, so he's using words (and also the direct intrusion into the home you are staying in the other day). His Achilles heel is the need for your attention.

This is where your power lies. Pretend to be indifferent. Fake it til you make it. You will one day be utterly indifferent.

@kelseypops

The real him confuses me. There's a few things he's done in the past that I've not been able to get over. Shouting at me a few days after I gave birth to DS was one - because I was in pain. I put it down to tiredness from us both at the time.

He always needs to be praised. He always needs to have worked harder than me.

My dcs from previous have said since living at my mums that they can't figure out if hes nice or not. He always jokes with them but the jokes aren't funny. They are mean.

He has a gambling problem which he won't admit too because we were always ok for money...and managed to save even. But he used to continuously promise me he would stop gambling yet have at least £20/30 every day.

I do everything in the house. I ask for very little help yet when I ask he usually has an issue with it.

I find myself always walking on egg shells around him, I feel like I can't do what I want with my own dcs.

Yet he doesn't shout, hes never been violent.

I've no idea what he's done to me but he 100% has a control over me but I can't figure out how he's done it.

I've had mental health issues since before I met him.

You just described my ex. I ended up spending 25 years with him before I manged to release myself from his grip and leave. He too never shouted, use foul language or been physical with me. I still felt suffocated all the time.

He too had to be right, the best, the smartest and it always had to be his way. His work was more important and harder then mine. While he did a lot when kids were young slowly he was doing less and less. If I would ask him to do something he would get upset and if he would do it we would have to show our appreciation or he would get upset. I too felt like I could never do anything I wanted, with him or the kids. I also felt like I was walking on eggshells. No idea how he did it but he controlled me from the day one. He too can be rude and would make jokes about other people but could never take a joke. He could not accept any kind of criticism.

I know that people here on MN do not like it when we call someone narcissist if they have not been diagnosed but I have to say it, I believe, strongly that my ex is one. It took me a long, long time to come to terms with it. As such, he can never change, that is when I decided to leave.

When he begs to have you back, you know that if you changed your mind they would be there.

Him saying he is going to let you go just kickstarts your fear of being alone & that this is permanent

It's just triggering your fears of being alone, or loss of family etc

He is just throwing everything at the wall to see what sticks

It seems his begging to be a family isn't working, so he's alternating that with some abandonment

Try to visualise his hurtful words sliding off you like water off a duck's back. Visualise feeling there is a protective force between his comments & your heart.

I know it's hard when someone is doing or saying whatever to get you to bend to their will

But perhaps look at him as a tantrumming toddler, so you can keep your cool & not let his words/behaviour affect you so much.

I'm struggling today.

I need to sort this car situation though he won't need the car now for at least another week.

Last night he came to swap vehicles and just sobbed and sobbed. Said he realised the error off all his ways. None of it was my fault.

He listed thing after thing that made me unhappy. I stayed silent. But he was right with all of it.

He looked like a broken man. It really does hurt.

I'm standing strong though. Now would be the easiest time for me to go back. He has weakened me but I won't go back. I know nothing would change.

It's amazing how (when it suits them) they can self-reflect for Britain. 😁

But, you're right. If you take him back all his blubbing and wringing if hands will disappear like bubbles in beer.

Stay strong! You've got this.

@ErrmWTAF

It's amazing how (when it suits them) they can self-reflect for Britain. 😁

But, you're right. If you take him back all his blubbing and wringing if hands will disappear like bubbles in beer.

Stay strong! You've got this.

Thank you. Today is awful. I accidentally reversed the car into someone - I have no idea who was at fault as the driver came around the corner as I was reversing to let a car in front of me go past.

Thankfully no damage but i was an emotional wreck.

H would of been the first person I would of called. And in this particular situation, he would of made it better. I haven't called him.

I just feel so alone x

He listed thing after thing that made me unhappy. I stayed silent. But he was right with all of it.

Have a think about this. He knew he was doing things that made you unhappy, that destabilised the marriage and the atmosphere in the home - and he didn't give a fuck.

So now he wants to change it? The only reason that's happened is because you left and it's inconvenient for him. It's not because he cares about your feelings or he would have changed those things ages ago.

It's actually a massive insult to you that he's admitting that he knew all the ways he was hurting you but it's only now when it affects him that he's willing to say he'll change.

He won't change by the way. He'll only make nice until he feels you are back home and settled in again and will revert right back to type, knowing that you'll be even less likely to leave again because it's disruptive a second time to the children.

Hold firm.

@Drinkingallthewine

He listed thing after thing that made me unhappy. I stayed silent. But he was right with all of it.

Have a think about this. He knew he was doing things that made you unhappy, that destabilised the marriage and the atmosphere in the home - and he didn't give a fuck.

So now he wants to change it? The only reason that's happened is because you left and it's inconvenient for him. It's not because he cares about your feelings or he would have changed those things ages ago.

It's actually a massive insult to you that he's admitting that he knew all the ways he was hurting you but it's only now when it affects him that he's willing to say he'll change.

He won't change by the way. He'll only make nice until he feels you are back home and settled in again and will revert right back to type, knowing that you'll be even less likely to leave again because it's disruptive a second time to the children.

Hold firm.

I am most definitely holding firm. Just weak on the inside.

In the majority of our many chats, he said he didn't realise anything was wrong. Until I just lost it and told him. At that moment he said he understood and has been much nicer to me since then.

Then yesterday he listed a fair few things I never even bothered to mention. He said he had been thinking of the way he had treated me and realised there were many more things than what I told him.

I know you are right. I just want the hurt to stop

And now he wants me to come back again. This time not getting back together but just me at home and him in the spare room. So he can be there for me with my mental health issues...so kind!

So nice that after all this time he's offering to be there for me. Especially when I told him in the first place that my mental health had declined he said 'he couldn't be arsed with it'....

I can see now he's literally doing anything he can to get me back. Not because he wants me back.

During the same conversation hes asked me how to do an online food shop. Mentioned about his dcs Xmas presents. I usually deal with everything. That's all he wants me for

It will stop. It takes time, but every day you get closer to it.

One thing is for certain - if you went back to him, you would be right back in that hell of a relationship. Your DC wouldn't be happy. Your DH would revert right back to his normal self, before very long at all. He might even get worse, as he would know that he can treat you as he likes and you'll never really leave, even if you threaten it. You would regret going back. You might work yourself back up to leaving, then you'd find yourself right back where you are now, and angry at yourself for setting yourself back and wasting more time on him. It would all be very confusing and upsetting for your children.

Or you could stay strong, as you are now. Doing the right thing for your children and yourself. Reclaiming more of yourself with every day that passes. Rebuilding yourself and making a happy, calm and loving home for your lovely children.

A wonderful life is waiting for you.

@layladomino

It will stop. It takes time, but every day you get closer to it.

One thing is for certain - if you went back to him, you would be right back in that hell of a relationship. Your DC wouldn't be happy. Your DH would revert right back to his normal self, before very long at all. He might even get worse, as he would know that he can treat you as he likes and you'll never really leave, even if you threaten it. You would regret going back. You might work yourself back up to leaving, then you'd find yourself right back where you are now, and angry at yourself for setting yourself back and wasting more time on him. It would all be very confusing and upsetting for your children.

Or you could stay strong, as you are now. Doing the right thing for your children and yourself. Reclaiming more of yourself with every day that passes. Rebuilding yourself and making a happy, calm and loving home for your lovely children.

A wonderful life is waiting for you.

Absolutely - you are spot on.

I actually very vaguely asked DS how he was feeling and he said he's fine, he wouldn't want to go back. Then he said 'don't worry mum, you've got me now' he's so lovely is my eldest DS - well they all are.

The more he's asking me to come back, the more it's opening my eyes to it's more the fact he actually needs me. Not wants me.

If he genuinely wanted me to get better he would allow me time. At first, that's what I asked from him. Just time. He wanted to know how long but I couldn't give them that answer.

Then he ended it saying he couldn't give me time. He kept repeating 'how can we make things work if you aren't here!'

He couldn't accept that I just needed time.

He also doesn't want anyone to know we have separated. I have come off all social media and have been off it for weeks now. My life is better without it. He has too come off it but only because he doesn't want anyone to know we are finished.

I think that's the main reason why he brought his dcs round. He has told dsd we are finished, which is obviously why she was crying when she came in but younger dss has absolutely no clue. Same as his mates probably.

He doesn't want me. He just wants his old life back. I get it 100%

I can see now he's literally doing anything he can to get me back. Not because he wants me back.

This is a huge step. When you gain the clarity that what he says will happen and what will actually happen are usually two quite different things*, you can start to make different choices for yourself, ones that protect and prioritise what's best for you, not what's best for him. This is immensely freeing.

*Note: sometimes he will actually do what he says he is going to, in order to keep up the illusion that he's good for his word, but you will notice this is largely around small, unimportant, one-off efforts, or if it relates to something long-term, drops away after a few days or weeks.

@CheekyHobson

I can see now he's literally doing anything he can to get me back. Not because he wants me back.

This is a huge step. When you gain the clarity that what he says will happen and what will actually happen are usually two quite different things*, you can start to make different choices for yourself, ones that protect and prioritise what's best for you, not what's best for him. This is immensely freeing.

*Note: sometimes he will actually do what he says he is going to, in order to keep up the illusion that he's good for his word, but you will notice this is largely around small, unimportant, one-off efforts, or if it relates to something long-term, drops away after a few days or weeks.

It's hard because I wish I could be firmer with him. But then if I'm firm, he will turn nasty and that's when I fall apart. I don't know why because I'm here - not in the same house. Not dreading him coming home from work.

I also hate upsetting him. I feel bad. Not sure why.

Thank goodness I start talking therapy this week

I understand all the behaviour since you have left has been completely unacceptable. However none of us are actually clinically able to diagnose particular character traits from an anonymous post by one party of a couple . So words like narcissist are not helpful and just ramp up emotions.

What you have not said is WHY you have left him. So before all this drama began - what were your actual issues with the marriage that you felt unable to stay in the marital home .?

@Finknottlesnewt

I understand all the behaviour since you have left has been completely unacceptable. However none of us are actually clinically able to diagnose particular character traits from an anonymous post by one party of a couple . So words like narcissist are not helpful and just ramp up emotions.

What you have not said is WHY you have left him. So before all this drama began - what were your actual issues with the marriage that you felt unable to stay in the marital home .?

Sorry I have another post somewhere which explains more. I just started a new thread as I wasn't in a good place the day be turned up with my step kids.

It would be easier ti just write a list

• gambling addict, not to the point where we struggled for money but he would have £20/30 a day. Every day would promise me he would stop. He didn't. We were saving for a mortgage

• accuses me of messaging other men when I haven't and never would. Always because I have become distant. Nothing to do with the fact I do everything and I get tired. It has to be I am up to something.

• tells me he can't be arsed when I finally pluck up the courage to tell him about my mental health. He lacks empathy massively

• always needs praise. 'Aren't you glad you have a husband like me who works so hard?' 'Aren't you glad I'm not one of those who beats you up or cheats on you?' Always talking about himself. Never really shows any interest in what I say. Barely speaks to me other than to tell me how hard work has been that day.

• treats his son better than his other 2 dcs and way better than my dcs from a previous relationship. They have said they could never figure out if he was funny or just mean. I get that. He was just mean.

• never ever helps around the house. I didn't ask for much but when I did, it was an issue. If I was lucky he may get DS pjs on after I bathed him. But if DS plays up and starts running around, it's game over and I do it.

• never bought me birthday presents. Always a trip to Asda at 7pm the night before.

• won't let any of us watch the tv. It's sports every single night. The minute he comes home from work, he sits down, gambles and puts sports on. He has a job where he gets extremely dirty at work. He sits in his work clothes and he's filthy.

• puts me in awkward positions when looking after his dcs. I find it very stressful having all 5 dcs at once on my own. Especially as my eldest DS has sen. School holidays I am always expected to have them when his ex needs me too. I can't say no.

Basically makes me feel I have to walk on eggshells constantly. The list goes on and on tbh. Writing that, im surprised I lasted as long as I did.

What you have not said is WHY you have left him. So before all this drama began - what were your actual issues with the marriage that you felt unable to stay in the marital home?

I don't wish to be rude but that is a) none of our business and b) irrelevant. It should really be enough to know that she left the marital home because she was so unhappy. People don't do this on a whim.

As you've pointed out, the husband's behaviour since she left has been unacceptable. The OP has been pretty clear this is not new behaviour but a continuance of behaviour that drove her to leave in the first place.

She is also free to use any words she likes to describe her experience, because even if a word like 'narcissist' is not being used in a clinical way, we all know we are not in a clinical or legal setting here, and we have a common understanding of the term that makes it useful. We understand it to mean she finds her husband self-absorbed, uninterested in others, egotistical etc. I am sure that the OP could provide numerous examples to illustrate why she thinks this if she wanted to.

She is not claiming nor expecting us to believe that he has a formal diagnosis, but even without it, narcissistic traits exist in all people to greater or lesser degrees and the greater the degree, the more difficult the person usually is to deal with.

Someone who does not quite hit the clinical cutoff for NPD may still nevertheless be a person who is selfish enough that they're hard to live and a lack of a clinical diagnosis makes no difference as to whether the OP would be 'right' to not want a relationship with them. Emotions are involved whether we want them to be or not, because people high in narcissistic traits are, by definition, emotionally challenging to tolerate.

@CheekyHobson

What you have not said is WHY you have left him. So before all this drama began - what were your actual issues with the marriage that you felt unable to stay in the marital home?

I don't wish to be rude but that is a) none of our business and b) irrelevant. It should really be enough to know that she left the marital home because she was so unhappy. People don't do this on a whim.

As you've pointed out, the husband's behaviour since she left has been unacceptable. The OP has been pretty clear this is not new behaviour but a continuance of behaviour that drove her to leave in the first place.

She is also free to use any words she likes to describe her experience, because even if a word like 'narcissist' is not being used in a clinical way, we all know we are not in a clinical or legal setting here, and we have a common understanding of the term that makes it useful. We understand it to mean she finds her husband self-absorbed, uninterested in others, egotistical etc. I am sure that the OP could provide numerous examples to illustrate why she thinks this if she wanted to.

She is not claiming nor expecting us to believe that he has a formal diagnosis, but even without it, narcissistic traits exist in all people to greater or lesser degrees and the greater the degree, the more difficult the person usually is to deal with.

Someone who does not quite hit the clinical cutoff for NPD may still nevertheless be a person who is selfish enough that they're hard to live and a lack of a clinical diagnosis makes no difference as to whether the OP would be 'right' to not want a relationship with them. Emotions are involved whether we want them to be or not, because people high in narcissistic traits are, by definition, emotionally challenging to tolerate.

I utterly agree. It’s none of our business.

However kelseypops, when you wobble re-read what you shared and know that you know why you left.

And now he wants me to come back again. This time not getting back together but just me at home and him in the spare room. So he can be there for me with my mental health issues...so kind!

Do not go back into that house with him.
Stay away from him he wants you back in that house so he can wear you down.

Never tell a narcissist anything they will use it against you.
He's trying every which way.... Which is what narcs do!

Grey rock

So he can be there for me with my mental health issues...so kind!

What you will find is that your mental health issues, such as they are, are actually his mental health issues being projected onto you/the normal struggle of dealing with someone who is manipulative/chaotic/controlling, and will rapidly disappear when he becomes a very limited part of your life.

He is trying really, really hard to score a victory over you.

Do not budge from where you are.

Do not engage in texting or conversations with him except to give non-responsive answers that give the impression that you are not that interested in what he has said.

Grey rock is basically giving non-responsive answers if you bother to respond at all. The aim is to not let the abuser know he is getting under your skin, avoid showing an emotional reaction, basically to bore them off. Bite your tongue/count to ten slowly whenever you have any communication from him.
queenbeeing.com/toxic-relationship-recovery-using-gray-rock-method-safely/

It's hard because I wish I could be firmer with him. But then if I'm firm, he will turn nasty and that's when I fall apart. I don't know why because I'm here - not in the same house. Not dreading him coming home from work.

I also hate upsetting him. I feel bad. Not sure why.

It's fear that is making you feel so wobbly. Fear of him, and fear of taking the reins yourself. You're afraid and you're feeling unsure of yourself because he has been feeding you lies for a while now, conditioning you to believe you are worthless and useless:
The lie that he is your lord and master.
The lie that you have to account to him.
The lie that you are not worth making an effort for, not even worth changing out of filthy clothes for.
The lie that your life revolves around him, that your children come second to his, and his word is law.
And the big one, from the gambling addict who accuses you of affairs - the lie that you are the one with the problems.

@kelseypops
There is a little voice in your heart that is trying to save you. That is the voice that told you to get out. Deep down you know that he will one day drag you down so far that you won't be able to get up, and he will destroy your children while he's at it. Keep on listening to that little voice.

Well said, @CheekyHobson. It is not our place at all to question the helpfulness or otherwise of whatever the OP says. Phrases like "words like narcissist", "before all this drama began", and "your actual issues" come across as potentially undermining. Beware who you pay attention to on YOUR thread, @kelseypops.