Can you be abusive but love your child?

Overwhelmed83 · 2021-11-12T15:10:12+00:00

I’m struggling so much with this. Can a man abuse their wife, be a bully to people they don’t like but genuinely love their child? He was found guilty at the fact finding, refused to admit any of it and just blamed stress and me etc. Child witnessed his behaviour but wasn’t towards them. Child was only 3 at the time. He is mentally unstable, I suspect some kind of personality disorder so I can’t see how he will be different around our child. He will manipulate emotionally like he has always done won’t he?

NellieBertram · 12/11/2021 15:13

Some people are inadequate parents. Doesn't mean they don't love their children (and their children live them) but something within them or their own formative experiences makes them unable to be a good enough parent.

Lottapianos · 12/11/2021 15:20

When people say about an abusive or neglectful parent 'oh but he/she loves that child', I always wonder

how you can be so sure of that

and

what good that actually does the child

It's very easy to say that you love a child, much harder to actually put that child's needs first, see that child as a separate person and provide what they need emotionally. From your description,this man does not sound capable of being a loving parent to a child

shylatte · 12/11/2021 15:24

I would say it is possible. The love I have for my dc isn't related/attached to how I treat others. I must add that I'm not not abusive to anyone though, but I think many abusive partners can treat their dc well.

Triffid1 · 12/11/2021 15:31

Unfortunately, yes, it is absolutely possible for an abusive person to also love their child. And for someone who is abusive to their child to nonetheless love that child. It is, I thin, one of the reasons why some abuse can be so hard to see or accept for extended family, or others.

I believe that a lot of people who are abusive genuinely don't even realise it or understand what they're doing. And even when they see their behaviour and recognise it as bad, they will genuinely have a million reasons why it's not their fault.

It's infuriating.

Ijsbear · 12/11/2021 15:52

Yes, some do.

Some people are abusive because of their own childhoods or conditioning that they must "spare the rod and spoil the child" (that view still exists!). Some people love but are very flawed. My bio. mother loved her kids without a doubt, but shit she was abusive - physically, verbally and emotionally. The damage has been very considerable. But she wanted, in her dim and erratic and inconsistent way, the best for them.

Also some people have been abusive, it gets pointed out to them and they do their best to change. Parenting doesn't come natually to everyone and some people need some help, accept it and change.

Personally I think the love itself is valuable in most cases. I think without it the kids would be worse off. It might hold the abusive parent back a bit.

Of course, there are people who are horribly abusive, don't care and leave devastation in their wake :(

Spiceup · 12/11/2021 16:18

I'd say yes. I work with troubled teens and a lot of that seems from abuse/neglect. The vast majority of parents do care and are doing their best. They usually had shocking parenting themselves and often genuinely believe they are good parents because they are better than their own parents were and/or are following the example set by their own parents.

It's a really hard call for social services. You can see that the parenting is awful but we know that children are almost always better off with their own family than they would be in care.

Jabvribt · 12/11/2021 16:21

Yes he can love them in as far as he is able to; it will feel like love to him but may not look like your version of love.
I work in social care and every parent has said they love their children and I do believe that they do in as much as they are able to but that love isn’t enough for them to be able to keep them safe and not cause harm to them. It’s also not enough.

5128gap · 12/11/2021 18:36

Well love is different for everyone so other than people's self proclamations of it, there isn't a lot to go on. If he says he does i expect he does. But so what really? Whats it worth in reality? Feelings are pretty irrelevant, its behaviour that counts, and that falls far short of what a child is entitled to expect from their father.

TurnUpTurnip · 12/11/2021 19:42

Yes

Dery · 12/11/2021 20:09

"every parent has said they love their children and I do believe that they do in as much as they are able to but that love isn’t enough for them to be able to keep them safe and not cause harm to them. It’s also not enough."

This is such an important point. Love alone is not enough. In any context. So as PP have said - someone can love their children and/or their partner and still be a really poor parent/partner. Love alone is not enough. This is such an important message and a lot of pain and disappointment would be avoided if this were better understood.

bibliomania · 13/11/2021 09:54

@Jabvribt

Yes he can love them in as far as he is able to; it will feel like love to him but may not look like your version of love. I work in social care and every parent has said they love their children and I do believe that they do in as much as they are able to but that love isn’t enough for them to be able to keep them safe and not cause harm to them. It’s also not enough.

That's a great description.

Thinking of exH and DD, yes, he had feelings of love for her, but that didn't mean he could put her first. His need to put himself first kept getting in his way - it loomed so highly in his vision that he couldn't see round the edges.

Lottapianos · 13/11/2021 10:06

'But so what really? Whats it worth in reality? Feelings are pretty irrelevant, its behaviour that counts, and that falls far short of what a child is entitled to expect from their father.'

Absolutely spot on. Very easy to talk about 'love', much harder to meet a child's needs day in day out, year in year out

Original poster

Overwhelmed83 · 13/11/2021 10:23

So when he said he loved me he probably did even though he hurt me?

His view of love is based on what he gets out of though. He loved me a lot when I behaved not so much when I didn’t. I feel he will take this with him to our child. Before no contact he was exactly like that. When they behaved great when they didn’t here take your child back.

OP posts:

Pinkgorrilaz · 13/11/2021 10:46

Sometimes though they can only love them as long as they're an extension of themselves. So as soon as they become independent people (maybe at about five years old or a bit older) with their own wants and opinions that's when the abuse can worsen.

Dropcloth · 13/11/2021 10:49

@Spiceup

I'd say yes. I work with troubled teens and a lot of that seems from abuse/neglect. The vast majority of parents do care and are doing their best. They usually had shocking parenting themselves and often genuinely believe they are good parents because they are better than their own parents were and/or are following the example set by their own parents.

It's a really hard call for social services. You can see that the parenting is awful but we know that children are almost always better off with their own family than they would be in care.

This. Parents usually love their children. This in no way means that they are not also neglecting, putting at risk etc said child, or aren’t capable of putting their child before an addiction, say.

GrandmasCat · 13/11/2021 10:52

Well… what use is it to be “loved” by someone who hurts you constantly, whether is love or not it just doesn’t matter. What matters is the damage such said “love” does.

If you managed to escape this man OP, don’t over rationalise his actions or try to put the blame elsewhere. Nobody is ever going to admit they don’t love their children enough not to hurt them when trying to retain access or most likely, safe face.

Bagelsandbrie · 13/11/2021 11:08

Yes. But people’s idea of “love” is very different to different people.

IncompleteSenten · 13/11/2021 11:10

No. I don't think abusers are capable of the actual emotion of love and all the actions and choices that come with it

JesusInTheCabbageVan · 13/11/2021 11:16

@GrandmasCat

Well… what use is it to be “loved” by someone who hurts you constantly, whether is love or not it just doesn’t matter. What matters is the damage such said “love” does.

If you managed to escape this man OP, don’t over rationalise his actions or try to put the blame elsewhere. Nobody is ever going to admit they don’t love their children enough not to hurt them when trying to retain access or most likely, safe face.

This.

He may or may not love you both - it's irrelevant. All that matters is whether he poses any risk to either of you (psychological or physical).

It's about what he does, not how he feels.

gulliblestravels · 13/11/2021 11:19

@bibliomania I’m interested in your observation of his need to put himself first - what was behind this, in your opinion?

ftw163532 · 13/11/2021 11:19

A child 'witnessing' abuse has been abused.

Original poster

Overwhelmed83 · 13/11/2021 11:27

@ftw163532 this is what I’m dealing and I’m lucky that the court saw this also.

I’ve taken myself out of the equation and in his eyes I was the reason he behaved that way so now we aren’t together he is fixed he is telling the court. I made him angry…same old abuse nonsense. I on the other hand know he has abused all his past relationships in different forms, some physical some emotional. But he continues to say he loves his child dearly etc etc. They are going to witness his behaviour towards others in his life even if he isn’t abusive towards the child.

OP posts:

bibliomania · 13/11/2021 11:47

@gulliblestravels, at the risk of armchair diagnosis, I do think there was some NPD at play with my ex. Messed up childhood, estranged from one parent and alternately terrorised and treated like the Second Coming by the other parent. Such a fragile sense of self that he couldn't let go of it for a minute because he might disappear into the void.

Disclaimer - not a professional, just someone who saw it up close for years.

TowerOfGiraffes · 14/11/2021 00:58

@Spiceup

I'd say yes. I work with troubled teens and a lot of that seems from abuse/neglect. The vast majority of parents do care and are doing their best. They usually had shocking parenting themselves and often genuinely believe they are good parents because they are better than their own parents were and/or are following the example set by their own parents.

It's a really hard call for social services. You can see that the parenting is awful but we know that children are almost always better off with their own family than they would be in care.

That's what needs to change though, surely?

In Denmark for example, children in care have the same outcomes as those that love with their families. So that is benchmarked against the average family (including shit ones) which means that children in awful situations unequivolcally will be better off in a properly supportive and stable environment in care.

What needs to happen in the UK is that we look after the very most vulnerable members of our society: abused children. And we make sure that there is always a better option than leaving them with an abusive parent.

The funding of this should be a much higher priority than social care for the elderly or cancer treatment etc. It should be the highest priority of all, because these are not adults with choices, these are children.

MauraandLaura · 14/11/2021 01:10

I think it depends tbh.

My family member does love her kids but she is emotionally immature and abusive. I ended up going away with her once and I was cringing at how she spoke to her kids and behaved towards them but then I seen her in moments where she didn't know I was watching and there was moments where she shown love towards her kids. Her kids are going to be pretty fucked up when they get older.

However I have been following the two cases of child deaths that are in the media at the moment and I think the parents had totally reduced their kids down to objects of disgust and couldn't have possibly loved them from the amount of physical abuse they infected on them