People who have cheated reporting on their disbelief after the event

[Signalstation]

I've read online posts by people who have cheated and regretted it, referring with hindsight to it feeling like an out of body experience, like they can't believe it was them, etc.

I'm not in a relationship at the moment but remembering when I was, I don't understand how this happens? Thinking about my day-to-day routines and responsibilities, I really can't imagine how this phenomenon occurs? Is it like leaving part of your identity at home, or adopting a temporary identity when seeing the affair partner? Is is like a schizoid split of personality?

I'd be curious to know what people think is going on and why it occurs (I don't mean why cheating occurs per se I mean why people report such odd feelings of disbelief that they could have done what they did).

I’ve never cheated but I did have a period of mad limerence with a colleague (who was largely oblivious)

I could be the model, loving wife at home but when I was in the office, it was a sort of madness if I saw him
If he had suggested we went to the stationery cupboard for a quickie, I would have done so without hesitation (and often daydreamed about him asking)

Then he made one passing misogynistic comment to me and any attraction towards him went off like a light switch

I look back at it now and don’t recognise myself, my actions or how I would have risked things for someone I didn’t know at all

Obviously nothing happened in my case, but if it had, I could see how I would look back at it with total disbelief

But this thread isn't about judging cheats? It's about explaining why people feel dissociated from the experience when they cheat. The reason is the way the human brain works. What's that got to do with judging anyone?

I don't really understand the MN hard line on cheating, I guess I never will.

Without in any way trivialising the very real devastation it can cause, or anyone's individual experience, the cultural level MN hardline on it does seem somewhat out of proportion. Of course it's never right, but not all affairs are the same and they need to be taken in context; an affair doesn't automatically mean that you are a shit human who deserves nothing but eternal punishment. It's also not the only way to wreck a marriage.

There was a thread once where a woman shared her story of how she and her husband had both been in dead marriages, slept together a handful of times and then ended said dead marriages. The wife came round, attacked her and broke her hand. Posters were saying she deserved broken bones, that she should have attempted to obstruct the resulting prosecution by the CPS and that the law should be changed to decriminalise such attacks in such circumstances.

More recently, there have been threads where people have called for adultery to be against the law and punishable by prison sentences or fines (to be fair, they were a minority). There was an eye opener not long ago which showed that for many women on MN, the pain of a betrayed wife and children is completely worth it if it fucks the cheater's life up; that same devastation that is always lamented so much on here becomes entirely palatable, a good thing even, if it's part of a cheater's comeuppance. Lots of people said they'd take pleasure in it. The cheater must be punished at all costs: all other pain to that end is totally worth it, absolutely fine, easy to accept.

One person even drew a parallel between getting involved in a cheater's life, even if they're all practically strangers, and a horrible current case of child abuse and killing. Basically, if you didn't agree with her, you clearly wouldn’t try to protect a child in danger either and revealing a cheat, no matter what the circumstances and how little your connection, was on a par with saving a child's life (so not doing it would be on a par with....). I left the thread at that point.

It is hardcore to the point of blindness and I agree with a PP that this is why it's virtually impossible to have a sensible discussion about it. We get threads like this quite often, effectively just a "but why?" and there's no attempt to understand Amy responses. Dissociation has been explained, but OP still asked "but why doesn't the negative feeling come in the moment?" Because that's dissociation!

And a lot of people will be reading this and assuming I must be a current or past or wannabe OW because there can be no other way to develop any sense of nuance about the whole thing. I'm not.

Excitement lust fun heart racing turned on pride flattery, self boost as attractive and desirable, physical pleasure.
All more powerful emotions than guilt.

Also the 'Ill just die afterwards and itll be worth it or walk into the sunset never to be seen again' emotions trigger in, if your body wants/ needs the sex in the particular situation, enough. That will negate any responsibilites.

@Wasabipeas

I’ve never cheated but I did have a period of mad limerence with a colleague (who was largely oblivious)

I could be the model, loving wife at home but when I was in the office, it was a sort of madness if I saw him
If he had suggested we went to the stationery cupboard for a quickie, I would have done so without hesitation (and often daydreamed about him asking)

Then he made one passing misogynistic comment to me and any attraction towards him went off like a light switch

I look back at it now and don’t recognise myself, my actions or how I would have risked things for someone I didn’t know at all

Obviously nothing happened in my case, but if it had, I could see how I would look back at it with total disbelief

This literally happened to me too, exactly as you've written it. The guy was an idiot but for some reason my brain or hormones didn't care and I too had mortifying thoughts about stationery cupboards. Lockdown put enough distance on it to wake up and realise how utterly inappropriate my thoughts had been, now I look at him and think yikes, no thanks.

I'm a nice person, not a psychopath. I lost my shit for a bit and I have no reasonable explanation for it.

It's feigned shock and surprise designed to separate themselves from the knowledge of the pain that they have inflicted. They know exactly what they are doing and everything that comes out of their mouths afterwards is an attempt to show others that they weren't in control. What absolute bollocks. Every one of us in every moment of our every day have to suppress feelings from actions otherwise we would probably act in a totally unacceptable way. We would like to show our irritating colleagues how difficult they are being. We would probably like to barge past the insufferable queue hogger at the post office counter. We would probably do a whole lot of things but we know that it's unacceptable and selfish.

@Inthewainscoting

Because #people. I do get your "people just don't fall into/onto a naked person!" view and I've never cheated personally.

But I have just had a slice of chocolate fudge cake despite the fact that I am trying to lose weight for sensible health reasons.

The human intellect, conscience and willpower are like a tiny monkey hanging on for dear life to the vast rampaging elephant of our mammalian impulses of BREED, EAT etc. Sometimes it's a miracle we're as well behaved as we are!

Love this - what a great explanation!

@DrSbaitso

I don't really understand the MN hard line on cheating, I guess I never will.

Without in any way trivialising the very real devastation it can cause, or anyone's individual experience, the cultural level MN hardline on it does seem somewhat out of proportion. Of course it's never right, but not all affairs are the same and they need to be taken in context; an affair doesn't automatically mean that you are a shit human who deserves nothing but eternal punishment. It's also not the only way to wreck a marriage.

There was a thread once where a woman shared her story of how she and her husband had both been in dead marriages, slept together a handful of times and then ended said dead marriages. The wife came round, attacked her and broke her hand. Posters were saying she deserved broken bones, that she should have attempted to obstruct the resulting prosecution by the CPS and that the law should be changed to decriminalise such attacks in such circumstances.

More recently, there have been threads where people have called for adultery to be against the law and punishable by prison sentences or fines (to be fair, they were a minority). There was an eye opener not long ago which showed that for many women on MN, the pain of a betrayed wife and children is completely worth it if it fucks the cheater's life up; that same devastation that is always lamented so much on here becomes entirely palatable, a good thing even, if it's part of a cheater's comeuppance. Lots of people said they'd take pleasure in it. The cheater must be punished at all costs: all other pain to that end is totally worth it, absolutely fine, easy to accept.

One person even drew a parallel between getting involved in a cheater's life, even if they're all practically strangers, and a horrible current case of child abuse and killing. Basically, if you didn't agree with her, you clearly wouldn’t try to protect a child in danger either and revealing a cheat, no matter what the circumstances and how little your connection, was on a par with saving a child's life (so not doing it would be on a par with....). I left the thread at that point.

It is hardcore to the point of blindness and I agree with a PP that this is why it's virtually impossible to have a sensible discussion about it. We get threads like this quite often, effectively just a "but why?" and there's no attempt to understand Amy responses. Dissociation has been explained, but OP still asked "but why doesn't the negative feeling come in the moment?" Because that's dissociation!

And a lot of people will be reading this and assuming I must be a current or past or wannabe OW because there can be no other way to develop any sense of nuance about the whole thing. I'm not.

Thanks @DrSbaitso, really interesting take on it. I'm often surprised by very absolutist views on various topics on MN which seem to have cultural dominance here yet don't reflect those I've heard from any groups of women I know IRL. It could be that MN supports bravery, or maybe that the forum attracts/retains a disproportionate number of people who see things in black and white ways. Certainly for some special interest topics that I've been involved with for many years, I've noticed that you'll get a different flavour from the MN forum, the Facebook group and the email forum, often with a different consensus emerging on each. I wonder if it is because different interfaces suit different types of people. I value the clarity and insights that I see on MN Relationships, yet often come away feeling that it's placed in a parallel universe to the one I live in IRL. And it usually seems to be a less happy and more scarey one, but some of that could be my naivety I guess.

God, not another thread about whether it's good or bad! Why change it to that subject? I thought it was going to be an interesting discussion about the psychology. Not about how everyone on MN is blah blah blah. Have fun discussing that, I'm off.

Dissociation. It’s very hard to hold the view that you are a ‘good’ person when you are doing or have done something which you know to be wrong. I think cheaters build a narrative (usually directed at their spouse/ marriage’s perceived defects) to justify what they are doing/ did. Afterwards, if they regret their actions, the story they told themselves falls away and they are left with the fact that they did something that does not sit well with their view of themselves and the fact that they have gone against what were previously personal core values. Just as after a disastrous drinking binge people are aghast and will say “What was I thinking?” getting carried away in the excitement of an affair seems to dull all guilt or value filter until after the stimulus has gone. This does not excuse an affair, but I don’t believe all cheaters are bad people, they are just people who for whatever reasons did a bad thing. After the event, even if it went on for a while, reality finally hits and they are totally disgusted with themselves. What happens next in terms of character is key.
I agree that not all cheaters are ‘bad people’, some of the hardline LTB chorus on infidelity on MN tend to see it as an ingrained character flaw therefore all cheaters are ‘bad people’. I don’t think this is true of the majority of people who have affairs. Obviously there is a black and white perspective in whether cheating is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, it’s wrong, but as humans we are very adept at warping our views when we need to justify a bad thing that we really want to do.
Cheating is based on lying. Lying to spouses, children, affair partners and themselves. Basically if you want to do something which goes against your core values and you can’t or won’t stop yourself, you need to dissociate/ reinvent a separate version of yourself/ create a justifying narrative to avoid all the awful feelings most normal humans get when engaged in wrongdoing. You need to still think you are not doing a bad or at very least unjustifiable thing.
I believe people are capable of change, hopefully when the lying to themselves stops it creates a space to make amends, learn and not repeat the behaviour. I’ve been cheated on and so have some of my friends and I know family members and friends who have cheated. None of them are what I’d call ‘bad people’. Most of them are lovely people who went very wrong in their lives and all admit that. I know a friend whose husband hated himself so much afterwards he couldn’t forgive himself and very sadly committed suicide. Bad people aren’t capable of that kind of remorse. Only one of them went on to cheat again.

It could be about growing as an individual. We do stuff, then we grow up, we look back and think 'did I really do that?'. I'm talking generally, not specifically with regard to the OP scenario, but that could apply? Simple emotional immaturity.

It could also be changing attitude to risk analysis. I engage in riskier activities than in my twenties. Others may become more risk averse and therefore look back and can't believe they would take the risk of an affair?

It could also be a security-related issue. When someone feels secure, they might be more likely to engage in flirtations. When their security is threatened (when their partner finds out about their affair) their rock of stability is shaken and they start to think about/see the wider picture and the consequences of their actions?

When people are not emotionally aware enough to realise what's going on, they are more likely to put the 'out of body experience' gloss over it.

@PieMistee

I've been married for 22 years and love my husband a lot. However in that time have "fancied" other people, though never acted in it or let on to them in anyway. I could imagine had the person liked me back I could have momentarily kissed them. Thankfully nothing ever happened. I look back at the crushes like I was a different person, I can't believe I felt like that about them and thank the lord I never did anything.

It's not just them "liking you back", it's them crossing your path just at the time DH is acting like an arse of something stupid, DC are being particularly challenging, work is getting to you in a way no one at home understands or any other combination of circumstances that just make life harder than it should be and this other person offers you a temporary alternative life.

@Whatabambam

It's feigned shock and surprise designed to separate themselves from the knowledge of the pain that they have inflicted. They know exactly what they are doing and everything that comes out of their mouths afterwards is an attempt to show others that they weren't in control. What absolute bollocks. Every one of us in every moment of our every day have to suppress feelings from actions otherwise we would probably act in a totally unacceptable way. We would like to show our irritating colleagues how difficult they are being. We would probably like to barge past the insufferable queue hogger at the post office counter. We would probably do a whole lot of things but we know that it's unacceptable and selfish.

This is a good explanation but doesn't prove your point.

Yes, of course, the vast majority of time we all behave properly and don't barge past the queue hogger or tell our colleagues what we think of them or any number of other things we'd like to do but good manners prevent us from doing. But surely we all have examples of that one time we weren't able to maintain that and snapped at a colleague or were less patient than we should have been in the post office?

Most of the time most people aren't having affairs but most people are susceptible to having a momentary lapse and once it's started it's done, no matter what you do next

Have you never done anything out of character? Anything that really "wasn't you"?
Not even nearly?

I cheated in a DP when I was 18 and I was messed up so that isn't in reference to affairs but I've certainly looked back on things I've done sober and thought what the fuck? How did I let go of my values so much as to do that with a guy? So I can see how in the right circs that could translate into an affair. It happens. You think wtf, I won't do that again. It happens. Nothing bad has happened. Oh, maybe just one more time...

Most of the time most people aren't having affairs but most people are susceptible to having a momentary lapse and once it's started it's done, no matter what you do next

I agree with your first point - everyone's susceptible to a momentary lapse - but not the latter. From experience - and I've discovered many others - the main difference between someone who has an affair and someone who maybe has a momentary lapse of judgement is that an affair takes lapse after lapse after lapse after lapse.

People don't go "oops" and fall into a 6 month clandestine relationship spontaneously. It requires knowingly crossing a number of boundaries, each more deceitful than the first, over a number of occasions.

A lack of connection between their emotional brain and their rational brain?