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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Daughter doesn't want to see or speak to Dad

27 replies

motheroreily · 03/11/2021 11:27

Hello. I would really appreciate any insight as I don't know what to do. Basically my daughter doesn't want to see or speak to her Dad. There is quite a back story and I understand why she feels this way. But I don't know what to do. I am sorry if this is long.

I had 50/50 shared care of our 9 year old with my Ex-H. In the last year he started to have MH problems and has been taken to A+E a couple of times but not sectioned. During this time the care has been more flexible and he has let me know when he didn't be up to having our daughter stay.

A couple of months ago he had a row with his wife when her daughter and her 2 friends were there and he asked me to collect them all. Our daughter was really upset. She didn't want to speak to him and he later called her crying which was distressing for her.

After that she would just visit for a couple of hours. We agreed she would stay one night and him or his wife would let me know if there were any issues. Later that night my daughter text and asked me to collect her as him and his wife were arguing. (I later found our he'd taken his wife's phone off her which is why she didn't tell me herself). When I arrived I could hear them shouting outside and it looked like they were pushing each other. My daughter was so distressed and said she was frightened her step mum would be hurt. I called the police and the next day he took another overdose.

About a month has passed now and apparently he is feeling a lot better (I am not sure about this). But our daughter doesn't want to see or speak to him. Last week he sent her some messages asking why she won't speak to him and saying ok don't have a daddy then.

He can't understand why she feels like this and says things like I have never hurt her or shouted at her. It was just an argument and she was upstairs anyway. He can't see the impact of what's happened and that is not just about an argument. He feels she is a child and we are her parents so we should just tell her to see him. I do want them to reconcile but don't know how to support this and I don't want our daughter to have her feelings ignored. I just can't see a way forward.

OP posts:

ABCeasyasdohrayme · 03/11/2021 11:32

The only way forward is for him to accept what he has done wrong. Until that point nothing will change. All you can do is support your dd, he is the one who needs to put the work in.

That message he sent was disgusting, your poor dd

Tokyotammy · 03/11/2021 11:42

His MH is having an impact on your child, she is what's important here. Let her know you're listening to her worries and keep her in your safe space away from that environment for the time being.

She needs a break from the drama and needs to be shielded from it. Supervised contact might be the way to go moving forward.

Theunamedcat · 03/11/2021 11:47

Block his number from her phone he is emotionally abusive to her

Marineboy67 · 03/11/2021 11:51

The time when a way forward will be when your ex husband excepts his daughters needs and can put them before his own selfish own needs.
What a horrible thing to say to your daughter "Ok don't have a daddy then" typical selfish emotional blackmail! I'm sure he does have mental health issues however he has a responsibility as a parent as well. Where does the the selfishness end and the mental health issues start!
Take a step backwards for now and support your daughters decision until such a time when her fathers able to recognise his responsibility towards her as her father and improve his attitude.

MrsSquirrel · 03/11/2021 11:53

@Theunamedcat

Block his number from her phone he is emotionally abusive to her

I agree with this.

Contact is for the benefit of the child. At the moment, the contact is harmful to her. Taking a break is a good idea.

Kitkat151 · 03/11/2021 11:54

When the police are called to a property where children have witnessed DV they make an automatic referral To children’s services....did a SW contact you to discuss? Have you followed this up? Also when a parent attends a&e following an overdose a referral is automatically referred to children’s services.... again you should follow this up.....
have school spoken to you? .... they will automatically have been sent a copy of the police report following the incident ( operation encompass)
Have children’s servives referred you for Early Help? That would be usual

SoftSheen · 03/11/2021 11:54

He obviously has a lot of problems but MH issues are zero excuse for the message he sent her. Respect her decision.

sadie9 · 03/11/2021 11:55

She's only 9. She needs to be protected and that includes protection from emotionally abusive texts that she cannot process.
Your ex DH is making himself the child and making your DD the adult. It's too much for her to see her Dad having a go at his wife and she is the helpless child witnessing it and cannot help. Then he lashes out at DD and makes himself the victim. A familar pattern I'm sure?
It'll have long lasting effects on her. Supervised access and no phone contact is what I would be doing.
I would delete those messages off her phone too. He will continue to act out his feelings using her and not recognise that he is an adult and she is a child.
Your daughter is doing the right thing. Until your DH shows evidence of a GP visit or therapy for his anger, my DD wouldn't be going over there again.

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/11/2021 11:56

I would support your DD in this. I would tell your ex she is not coming over to his or seeing him until he has his MH sorted, and only then if DD consents to seeing him. I would also block his number on her phone as he did emotionally abuse her. MH can make that forgivable, but he’s still struggling with is and the primary thing is to protect your DD. Once his MH is better, DD can decide whether to resume contact or not.

I’d just do this and tell him he can take you to court if he doesn’t agree. He won’t win.

AnneLovesGilbert · 03/11/2021 11:58

Stop contact. She’s not safe there. Have you heard from his wife? Do you know the upshot of the police visit?

Your poor daughter, poor you, how worrying and awful

TheChip · 03/11/2021 11:59

I am in a similar situation with my ds.
What I have done is just allowed my ds to express how he is feeling about it all, and letting him know that whatever he decides to do is 100% fine with me. Its all we can do really, just be there for support. Mine has refused to go for almost 2 months now and I do worry its hitting the point of no return, but like your daughters dad, he is failing to see that the issue lies with him and he is the only one who can pull things back.

I would block him from contacting your daughter directly though and having all communication go through you, just so that he can't emotionally blackmail her. That's completely out of order, MH issues or not!

Original poster

motheroreily · 03/11/2021 12:06

Thank you so much for your replies I do appreciate them.

Yes children's services contacted me after the first overdose and I contacted them myself another time for advice. They also contacted me after the police were called. However on all occasions they said as we have a court order there is no role for them to play. I also contacted her school twice to explain what had happened and so they can support her.

I could apply to change the court order although he's not insisting on access at the moment.

Thank you everyone has confirmed my feelings that she is a child and it's potentially damaging and it's not her job to make him feel better. MH is awful but it doesn't excuse what has happened.

OP posts:

charliesbookmarker · 03/11/2021 12:11

OP I have just written out a long post as my friend is going though something similar.

But instead I would speak to a family solicitor to see where you stand legally first.

Also my friend changed her sons mobile number so he couldn't send the horrible messages and set up a email account so she could read the messages before they got to her son.

mbosnz · 03/11/2021 12:26

I think you have a very smart daughter. She is seeking to protect herself from her father's emotional abuse. And to me, that is what it is, when he's exposing her to DV, regardless of whether she's in the room or not, she heard it, and was frightened by it, when you're threatening suicide, overdosing, and saying horrible things to a frightened, traumatised child like 'fine, don't have a Daddy then'.

He is the one with responsibilities to her, not her to him.

RedMarauder · 03/11/2021 12:28

I could apply to change the court order although he's not insisting on access at the moment.

Talk to a family solicitor and start the process as there is a backlog in the Courts.

DelphiniumBlue · 03/11/2021 12:28

It's very worrying that he doesn't recognise the impact these incidents will have had on his DD. And also worrying that he took his wife's phone away from her so that she couldn't call for help or to get your DD collected and removed from the situation. That doesn't just sound like a MH issue, that sounds like premeditated bullying.
And even now, he doesn't care that DD was scared by all this, and he's sending inappropriate messages.
Unfortunately all this means that you can't let his wife supervise contact, or be reassured by the fact there is another adult present, as he has ensured that this won't keep DD safe.
In your shoes I would not let DD have access to messages from him unless you can vet them first.
Keep the school up to date on anything that happens - they document it, and may be able to help with support for your DD, who is obviously going to be traumatised by this. For example, my school provides sessions with an art therapist and a nominated adult for individual children to talk to, just a daily check-in .

coronabeer · 03/11/2021 12:33

What was his relationship with your dd like before his MH difficulties?

Original poster

motheroreily · 03/11/2021 12:35

@coronabeer

What was his relationship with your dd like before his MH difficulties?

It was very close. She was a daddy's girl and always wanted to see him. She wanted the 50/50 residency

OP posts:

altmember · 03/11/2021 12:56

@RedMarauder

I could apply to change the court order although he's not insisting on access at the moment.

Talk to a family solicitor and start the process as there is a backlog in the Courts.

I'd second this - go back to court to request the contact arrangements are changed. At the very least that'll kick in a new cafcass/section 7 report. SS are crap, they've fobbed you off really. They do still have a role to play - they should have told you to not let him have unsupervised contact and if they had an open case they'd do the section 7 instead of cafcass.

I had a similar situation with my ex (alcoholism and overdoses). At first SS kept saying they'd just wanted to support my ex and maintain our (informal) child arrangements. That went on for months. Eventually they snapped, told me to take 100% care and not allow ex unsupervised access. SS insisted I applied to court to formalise care arrangements, and SS backed me through the process.

You might have strong enough grounds to request an urgent hearing and obtain an interim order to override the existing contact order.

Original poster

motheroreily · 04/11/2021 14:57

Thank you again for your replies I've been reflecting on everything and talked to my daughter last night. She says she loves her dad but can't remember what he was like before the mental health problems. And that she doesn't want to go back to 50/50.

I agree the contact needs to be supervised and am going to suggest a bowling trip (if my daughter agrees) that way they can go bowling and I can sit away from them and have a drink. So I will be there but hopefully won't be distracting.

I agree it is worrying he is putting our daughter in an adult role and putting pressure on her to make him better and also that he can't see the impact his actions have had on her.

I'm going to contact the court too. Although my ex isn't demanding access or that we go back to how things were.

OP posts:

Original poster

motheroreily · 15/12/2021 11:25

Hello everyone. Things have moved on a bit and I am still so unsure what to do. I contacted Family Services again who referred us for counselling but the service told us it was wasn't suitable for my daughter.

Anyway, she still won't see or speak to him. She said she might facetime him after xmas. But I don't think she wants to speak to him before Xmas in case he is unwell and then she will worry about it.

Since my last post they went bowling together and the cinema. It seemed to be OK but she wanted to stay on site and wait for them. After that he took her to MacDonalds one night. At some point he had another bad day and threatened suicide again.

So up til then he'd been meeting her outside in public places. Then he wanted her to go to his house. I said I thought they should keep the visit shortish (ie a couple of hours) and I wanted to know someone else would be there. Anyway he wasn't happy with this and cancelled the visit. He then sent our daughter a message saying he loved her but she can't treat him like this and he would cancel her phone and get rid of her rabbit. But he's there when she wants to treat him properly !!

So she doesn't want to see him at all now. I am certain if he reached out to him he'd respond but I feel like he's being so manipulative and it's like everything has to be exactly on his terms. I just can't see a way forward.

OP posts:

JustmeandtheKIDS2 · 15/12/2021 11:49

I think your doing exactly the right thing. Trying to maintain contact but make sure it's safe. I think his reaction proves why it's not a good idea for her to go to his .
Does he tell her he's suisidal?
I would be mindful that he could take you to court and try and inforce unsupervised contact . You need to ensure you have the evidence to prove his mental instability and how he treats her. Only speak to him via email, or text (not verbally ). So if he does take it further at some point you have the evidence.
If he's communicating with her directly and it's distressing her, remove the phone or block his number.
I would also be keeping a diary of events that may help you in the future if you need it
I would not be taking it back to court if he's not trying to inforce contact. You just need the evidence that you have been safeguarding her , just incase he takes you back at a later date.
You could maybe set up times for her to call him , but email him a polite reminder about keeping it child focused and light hearted, short and sweet. If it becomes distressing you just end the call.
If the rabbits at his house ask to collect it.
I have been in the unfortunate position of having to protect my children from their father (via the courts ) it's a very sad situation.

Maxiedog123 · 15/12/2021 11:51

Just to be clear, he threatened to take her pet rabbit away if she didn't comply?

Original poster

motheroreily · 15/12/2021 13:41

@maxiedog123 yes I think he was saying I'm getting rid of your pet as a consequence of you not wanting to see or speak to me

OP posts:

Original poster

motheroreily · 15/12/2021 13:45

@JustmeandtheKIDS2

I think your doing exactly the right thing. Trying to maintain contact but make sure it's safe. I think his reaction proves why it's not a good idea for her to go to his . Does he tell her he's suisidal? I would be mindful that he could take you to court and try and inforce unsupervised contact . You need to ensure you have the evidence to prove his mental instability and how he treats her. Only speak to him via email, or text (not verbally ). So if he does take it further at some point you have the evidence. If he's communicating with her directly and it's distressing her, remove the phone or block his number. I would also be keeping a diary of events that may help you in the future if you need it I would not be taking it back to court if he's not trying to inforce contact. You just need the evidence that you have been safeguarding her , just incase he takes you back at a later date. You could maybe set up times for her to call him , but email him a polite reminder about keeping it child focused and light hearted, short and sweet. If it becomes distressing you just end the call. If the rabbits at his house ask to collect it. I have been in the unfortunate position of having to protect my children from their father (via the courts ) it's a very sad situation.

Thank you. That is v good advice. She hasn't seen him for a month. And he's not asked for contact for a couple of weeks.

OP posts:

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