Round in circles about leaving DH

[user6869848649]

I'm married. DH and I have been together for 15 years. Every day I change my mind from wanting to leave him, to loving him so much I can't imagine why I would ever want to leave. This happens multiple times a day sometimes.

Our marriage isn't awful - no cheating or massive issues like that. Just lots of low level feeling taken for granted, second best, awful sex, etc. I'm very, very fed up with how monotonous our relationship is. We've sat watching TV all day today for example, I'm so bored. Also, he can be a bit harsh sometimes, I think he's trying to be funny but for example we went to a Halloween party at my friends house yesterday and he said something so mean to her and I felt so angry, but I never really said anything or pulled him up on it properly, if I do it leads to massive rows later (or it has in the past). I feel like I hold my tongue a lot to keep the peace.

I'm under no illusions that the grass is always greener. I think I would miss him terribly if we split and I've never really been single. But I also wonder if I would feel free too? I don't think I would meet someone "better" than him because in a lot of ways he's great. But I would love to know what good sex feels like. I would love to know what it feels like to have someone cook me my tea. I would love to spend Sunday's just going out and pottering around with someone or for a pub lunch or a walk and a pint. Anything really.

I've felt like this for a long time now, and I've been having counselling but it hasn't given me any clarity. I just go round and round, should I or shouldn't I?

How do you make that decision? Has anyone been in a similar position and if so what was the deciding moment for you?

For me it was realising that I was ground down to a shadow of myself and while I was raring to go after lockdowns, he wanted to live like a hermit. He acted like he was already 80 before he even hit 40! Wouldn't try new things, go anywhere, make conversation. Moaned constantly about a headache, bad back, whatever. No interest in me or our kids. I looked at him and realised I couldn't spend 1 more year like that, never mind another 40-50. We had also tried counselling over the years, a variety of types and therapists, but nothing ever changed.

There was emotional abuse and many other issues for us though as well, he could be cruel and hurtful, which made my decision much easier.

God. Sorry but it sounds shit. You don't feel appreciated, the sex is bad, you don't have fun together, he's a dick to your friends, he doesn't pull his weight... You don't seem to have DC, so other than a bedwarmer and money, what is the point of being with him at all? "Doesn't cheat or beat me" is just about the lowest of all possible bars. A relationship should be an enhancer and enricher of life, not something to be tolerated out of fear being alone is worse.

@stalkersaga it is shit. Until it's not. We do have fun together. We laugh and joke and can talk for hours but it all happens on the sofa in front of the TV. That's what keeps me so confused sometimes I think. If I look back on today, I remember snippets of conversation and the film we watched and felt like I had fun. Then I zoom out and look at the whole day and think I can't do that for the rest of my life.

I could have written your post so many times. My husband became increasingly awkward and difficult - things reached a head and he moved out. I have never ever been happier or more relieved. Or relaxed, or more authentic or contented.

I think if you keep questioning things and it doesn't go away, it's not just a rough patch, then I think that's probably your gut trying to tell you something.

OP - have you met as teenagers? Have you had other relationships?
If not - it may be that you have both grown up and changed, and don’t fit together anymore.

However, some of the things you are talking about can be explained by the length of your relationship. It takes afford for a relationship to be non-monotonous after 15 years.
Have you tried suggesting going and doing all the things you want to do on weekends, rather than watching TV.
And if he didn’t want to do them - have you tried going by yourself or with a friend?
It is healthy in any relationship to have other sources of happiness and fun. All your needs for an exciting life can’t all be focused on one person. You need your own life to be interesting - do you have hobbies? Friends? Interesting job?
If you don’t have much going on outside of your relationship - even if you leave him, you’ll eventually end up in the same place, only with a new man.

I don’t know what he said or did to your friend, but you are on the couch too. Do you propose things and he won’t agree? Is the counseling for you or do you go together? It sounds like a mush mosh if issues. I think marriage is quite serious and you owe it to each other to communicate clearly. Tell him you are not happy with your sex life, etc.

Have you told him how you feel?

If not & you think there's something worth saving, you have the option to be brave, face the enormous huff which WILL follow & tell him everything & what you need. At this point you've nothing to lose.

Have you tried suggesting going and doing all the things you want to do on weekends, rather than watching TV.
And if he didn’t want to do them - have you tried going by yourself or with a friend?
It is healthy in any relationship to have other sources of happiness and fun. All your needs for an exciting life can’t all be focused on one person. You need your own life to be interesting - do you have hobbies? Friends? Interesting job?
If you don’t have much going on outside of your relationship - even if you leave him, you’ll eventually end up in the same place, only with a new man.
Also, all this ^

I could have written your post OP. Except for the bit about having fun. We don't laugh together or have fun. My H is a gamer, a fully grown man who games. How sad.
I go through the same turmoil every week thinking ''shall I leave or not''. I have done so for several years. Its a complete headf**k. Things aren't awful enough to leave but not great enough to stay. I have a nice lifestyle, do I want to rock the boat and turn the whole lot upside down. Yes and no.
My house and DC keep me busy when I'm at home. My house is a fair size and it takes a lot of work to keep on top of it all while working FT. H does nothing around the house except makes the DC dinners when its his turn/I'm out. I enjoy making sure the house is kept/looks nice. That sounds sad. And I worry that leaving H and selling the house (it would have to be sold) would mean I lose some purpose in life. I wouldn't have the DC eow, I wouldn't have a house which would need a lot of my time to spend getting straight (I'd still need to tidy up/clean etc but no where near as much as the house would be a lot smaller).

Me and H do nothing at home together. We even sit in separate rooms in the eve. I once suggested to him we have a mini buffet for dinner and get 'picky bits' to share in the living room. He looked at me and said what the F is picky bits. I replied with 'things like baked camembert to share' and gave a few other suggestions and he was like 'I hate camembert'. I gave up after that. We have zero in common. He says its black, I say its white type of thing. I now make sure I WhatsApp him anything he needs to agree to so that I have a record to show him of what he said/agreed to when he disputes it.

This is not a relationship. Its housemates at the best. We do own laundry/food shops/cooking/dinners. No sex or intimacy. No holding hands - he has never been into that. No cup of tea in bed first thing together type-of-thing as he doesn't drink hot drinks or apparently like to talk in the morning as he is still waking up. Its lonely, very very lonely for me. He has Aspergers and social anxiety and I think he likes things the way they are between us. TBH I'm waiting for him to do something major and fuck up so I can make my excuses to leave.

After reading that lot back to myself I'm now going for a little cry

Hugs OP and to everyone else in this situation

@Snugglebum20
He doesn’t have to do anything major for you to leave him

@Shoxfordian I know, but in a terrible way I'm waiting for him to do so so I am not to blame. TBH, I am not to blame regardless due to all the other things he has done in the past. I should have left then but I didn't and I was stupid not to. He has apparently forgotten about all those things and says I am a liar and making them up.

Feeling quite tearful about my situation today.

You’re not to blame anyway for his actions
You’ll be so much happier without him

@Snugglebum20 It's time now to take control of your life. Please don't wait until it gets so bad. It sounds as though he will always minimise what's happened so it's enough to just say that you can't stand it any longer. You say you're worried about not having the children every other weekend, but if he's a gamer all he'll want to do is that anyway so I think you will see the children as much as you want.

@Snugglebum20 me and you are twins, but you know that already. You are hurting as much as I am, being trapped without love. It's not the sex, it's the love. We're both stuck going round in circles (like a lot of others are, unfortunately) not knowing what our best option is, and also waiting for the decision to be taken out of our hands so we're not the bad guy. You know you have more than enough reason to split with your dh, more than I do, but you continue to carry the burden of wanting to do the right thing for everyone. Nothing either of our dhs can do will make us love them, and they're not even trying anyway!!! I don't know what else to say to you or anyone here. It's easy to say bite the bullet and just do it, but it's the doing that is the hardest thing

Aww @snugglebum20 that sounds so shit, I'm sorry. I agree with others though that you definitely don't need something major to leave, you can just leave. I can too.

I do understand wanting something big to happen though. We've had a couple of really big rows in the past and I wish I had left then.

Mine isn't a gamer but he is a wokaholic and I can imagine them being similar in a way, both all consuming. He's worked hard and done well in his field, and I am proud of him for that, but it just rules our life. Nothing else I could possibly do is anywhere near as important, everything comes second to his work, its all he talks about. If I had a hard day at my job he'd say "you should try being me for a day!" etc. Won't take any holidays or spend any real time with me. Will be 2 hours late home without letting me know because "something came up".

I'd love to do things like a special dinner sometimes or a cup of tea together in bed too but it never happens.

Hugs to you too because this half life existence is just miserable isn't it? When I write it down it seems so clear but then when I go back into my head I get jumbled again.

I think that the problem with counselling is that you can end up going round in circles

I am going to recommend you buy the book Too good to leave, too bad to stay by Mira Kirschenbaum. You basically work through the chapters in the book to clarify your own thinking. I did this twice and the first time I wasn’t ready to leave and second time two years’ later it was clear that I was.

Why can't you develop a life of your own, still living with him? A hobby or two, a new friend (or friends)? Why does everything have to depend on someone who isn't sharing his life with you? He reduces to the level of "friend" rather than dh? Your life is gradually disappearing, you're sad, bored, lonely and unfulfilled and it's NOT GOING TO CHANGE unless you take control and change it.

@Snugglebum20

I could have written your post OP. Except for the bit about having fun. We don't laugh together or have fun. My H is a gamer, a fully grown man who games. How sad. I go through the same turmoil every week thinking ''shall I leave or not''. I have done so for several years. Its a complete headf**k. Things aren't awful enough to leave but not great enough to stay. I have a nice lifestyle, do I want to rock the boat and turn the whole lot upside down. Yes and no. My house and DC keep me busy when I'm at home. My house is a fair size and it takes a lot of work to keep on top of it all while working FT. H does nothing around the house except makes the DC dinners when its his turn/I'm out. I enjoy making sure the house is kept/looks nice. That sounds sad. And I worry that leaving H and selling the house (it would have to be sold) would mean I lose some purpose in life. I wouldn't have the DC eow, I wouldn't have a house which would need a lot of my time to spend getting straight (I'd still need to tidy up/clean etc but no where near as much as the house would be a lot smaller).

Me and H do nothing at home together. We even sit in separate rooms in the eve. I once suggested to him we have a mini buffet for dinner and get 'picky bits' to share in the living room. He looked at me and said what the F is picky bits. I replied with 'things like baked camembert to share' and gave a few other suggestions and he was like 'I hate camembert'. I gave up after that. We have zero in common. He says its black, I say its white type of thing. I now make sure I WhatsApp him anything he needs to agree to so that I have a record to show him of what he said/agreed to when he disputes it.

This is not a relationship. Its housemates at the best. We do own laundry/food shops/cooking/dinners. No sex or intimacy. No holding hands - he has never been into that. No cup of tea in bed first thing together type-of-thing as he doesn't drink hot drinks or apparently like to talk in the morning as he is still waking up. Its lonely, very very lonely for me. He has Aspergers and social anxiety and I think he likes things the way they are between us. TBH I'm waiting for him to do something major and fuck up so I can make my excuses to leave.

After reading that lot back to myself I'm now going for a little cry

Hugs OP and to everyone else in this situation

@Snugglebum20 I'm so sorry. One of the things I urge you to do is when/if your children start asking questions, please never tell them that this is what a normal marriage is. Many parents will do that because children talk - they don't want all the neighbours or school parents to know what the state of their marriage is like by the kids saying xyz to their friends, but it's honestly better not to say anything at all.

The main cause for you to leave is to bring more joy into your lives. If you think the atmosphere is tense or quite heavy when he's around, your children will probably pick-up on that. It just depends of you can afford to leave though, and sometimes a fathers tenuous relationships becomes painfully apparent when the woman wants to leave. All those years spent not communicating, spent not being interested suddenly become very obvious and that rejection is painful for a lot of kids.

Name change fail

@user6869848649

Aww *@snugglebum20* that sounds so shit, I'm sorry. I agree with others though that you definitely don't need something major to leave, you can just leave. I can too.

I do understand wanting something big to happen though. We've had a couple of really big rows in the past and I wish I had left then.

Mine isn't a gamer but he is a wokaholic and I can imagine them being similar in a way, both all consuming. He's worked hard and done well in his field, and I am proud of him for that, but it just rules our life. Nothing else I could possibly do is anywhere near as important, everything comes second to his work, its all he talks about. If I had a hard day at my job he'd say "you should try being me for a day!" etc. Won't take any holidays or spend any real time with me. Will be 2 hours late home without letting me know because "something came up".

I'd love to do things like a special dinner sometimes or a cup of tea together in bed too but it never happens.

Hugs to you too because this half life existence is just miserable isn't it? When I write it down it seems so clear but then when I go back into my head I get jumbled again.

Does this description ring a bell? -

He has a martyr-like, woe-is-me attitude. He is the heroic provider, unappreciated for his work efforts (despite the fact his wife thinks their marriage is non-existent, would love for him to reduce his work hours, and he would be a compulsive worker anyway).

***

There are diverse opinions as to whether sex is essential to a good marriage, but I think it's so sad that you don't even have this -

I would love to spend Sunday's just going out and pottering around with someone or for a pub lunch or a walk and a pint. Anything really

That's pretty much the bare minimum, isn't it?

Was he always like this? What was he like before you got married?

You just don't understand you see. Nobody else deserves real sympathy because providing sympathy and sympathising is emotional labour (and people like this are often not emotionally generous to provide it). It requires someone to acknowledge that someone else's suffering might be greater or equal to one's own, that their suffering is worthy of acknowledgment. If he's a competitive, 1-2-3 back to me kind of person, he won't want to give another person that acknowledgment, because he doesn't want the spotlight being taken off of him for one second. People like this like being competitive or boastful in everything, including their suffering. They see themselves as the most important person in the room, so only their suffering is the worst most important suffering. It's quite a narcissistic trait.

@EarthSight that’s exactly him. Where’s that from, is that from that book?

I think he has always been like this to an extent, but it’s got worse as he’s done better at work and I’ve got more fed up as times gone by too, and lost the rose coloured glasses.

I was like this around 8 years ago and I read a book called Stay or Leave about dealing with relationship indecision and crossing the rubicon into the unknown. It really helped and I was ended the relationship. It was difficult but once I’d picked myself up I thrived. Met oh a year later and getting married next year (should of been last year - bloody Covid!)

[quote user6869848649]@EarthSight that’s exactly him. Where’s that from, is that from that book?

I think he has always been like this to an extent, but it’s got worse as he’s done better at work and I’ve got more fed up as times gone by too, and lost the rose coloured glasses.[/quote]
Lol I wrote that so thank you.

From the positive comments I get from Mumsnet, I've been thinking of sharing my writing on a certain website but just haven't got round to it yet. God, it's almost depressing that I got him right from that one sentence. It still amazed me how these characteristics appear in such predictable patterns.

Watching TV with someone you love is really nice, but the real test is how you feel around that person when you're not both watching a screen.

What does he say when you've brought up your unhappiness? If you were on the poverty line, I could understand how someone would work themselves into the ground to look after their loved one, but so often with these stories, the husband becomes completely engrossed in his work independently of that. Sometimes it's used as a way to escape the marriage, and then when the woman feels terribly lonely, the response she gets is that he's doing all this for her, and she should be grateful, whereas what's really going on might be more selfish than that.

Obviously, people have different ways of expressing love, but I think that so many women get gaslit into accepting things they never interpreted as loving behaviour.

or spend any real time with me

Most people aren't extremely lovey-dovey after 15 years of being together, but I think this just says a lot, doesn't it? It sounds like you're having to grasp at the attention-crumbs he throws your way. I would say that he's making himself really clear here and that if he wanted to spend time with you, just you, he would.

It's shitty because a lot of women accept less than they should because they are told over & over again, that their partner wants them, loves them, or that they're silly, unsympathetic, unsupportive.....when actually, the whole time, they just simply weren't top priority for the other person. However, even though their partner wasn't willing to make them top priority, they still really wanted them around as a comfort blanket/mother/housekeeper/emotional support giver/sex provider.

Most people, when they want someone or love someone, find the time to spend time with them unless there's a desperate set of circumstances that prevents that. How would you feel if you saw him happy with another woman one day, and you thought back to the years you spent in this unsatisfied state, feeling second-best?

I don't blame you for going round in circles. It seems like you enjoy his company otherwise (although the sex isn't good).

I recommend that you think about how an ideal relationship would be for you. Most relationships do fall into predictable routines after 15 years. A lot of people watch TV because it's cozy, comforting and easy after work. What would you ideal spare time look like on evening after work?

Yes I have OP. 18 years. Between 20 and 38.

In that time I experienced precisely what you are going through. It could be me. The feeling that 'life is grey', 'a bind', 'a chore'? Tired all the time? Just bloody exhausted? Wanting to end the relationship then keep on getting drawn back?

To answer your question directly, which is, 'how do I stop feeling this way?' You leave. Or get him to.

Practical advice now. How many times have you tried to leave? This is important. Not just fleeting thoughts but actually going as far as planning?

You may have read this but on average it takes about 7 times for an abused partner to actually leave. Why 7 is strange and no one really comes up with an answer. It was certainly true for me. You are being abused OP. You are in FOG. Fear, Obligation and Guilt. It's the almost psychological perception of not being able to 'think straight'.

Good news. You get to about 7 then you will absolutely KNOW it's the right thing to do. This time it's permeant. Once you get to that point, I promise you, you will just get out. More importantly, there will be fuck all desire to return.

The physical distance and time alone will almost 'snap' you back into reality. Quite quickly too. The physical body will recover first. The mental state will take more time.

There is light at the end of the tunnel.

Finally, are children involved?