What traits do avoidant men have?

[Parkkks]

Especially ones who are willing to spend a lot/nearly all their spare time with you?

I took spending nearly all free time with someone as commitment but I’ve recently broken up with someone who I spent a lot of time with but there was no real progression of the relationship. It didn’t feel like we were committed as we didn’t do much other than eat and sleep when it was convenient around a working day, then some snippets of the weekend together but no real plans or talk of the future in any real way.

What should I be looking out for? What traits do avoidant men have?

Very flaky and wont commit to even the smallest plans.
Wont confirm you are their girlfriend or in a relationship with you, even if they're getting all the benefits.
Won't introduce you to their family and friends and refuse to meet yours.
Make you feel anxious, overthinking, paranoid and deeply insecure.
Overall, avoid!

@Mermaidwaves

Very flaky and wont commit to even the smallest plans. Wont confirm you are their girlfriend or in a relationship with you, even if they're getting all the benefits. Won't introduce you to their family and friends and refuse to meet yours. Make you feel anxious, overthinking, paranoid and deeply insecure. Overall, avoid!

@Mermaidwaves that list is honestly like reading a paragraph on my last relationship. I don’t know why I accepted it. He called me his friend to waitresses when booking a table (so strange!) and was reluctant to meet my family, always always always too busy. We couldn’t even plan the cinema let alone a holiday. In two years we never went on holiday. Yet we spent nearly all our time together.

I spent most days feeling anxious and confused. Whenever I raised any of this with him he always had an answer, like he was busy, he didn’t think it mattered that the waitress thought we were friends, that he just didn’t have time to see family or friends but hopefully soon he would

It was a TOTAL head fuck.

Just what you've described op, no talks of progression about the future.
Have you tried bring it up? what he says will tell you what you need to know.
I came out of a relationship where we were exclusive always spent every weekend together, spoke daily, he was reluctant to meet my kids even after 6 months together, weirdly he was the one to bring up moving in together but whenever I tried to progress this, it wasn't the right time for him or he has to do this and that first, basically future faking and no real interest in making it happen. Time wasters
Not sure why, laziness or maybe commitment phobic, glad I'm not waiting on him anymore.

@Parkkks
So many men seem to be like this! I met loads OLD who were like this to variable degrees. I cant imagine meeting a man who is NOT like this in the future, it's so depressing!

What you should be looking for isn't a tick-list of traits. There is no external locus of evaluation: it's internal. You need to be looking out for and, crucially, responding to, your emotions. If it feels good, stay. If it feels unpleasant or unsettling, leave.

Everybody has different triggers. I have a friend who couldn't bear to be touched on the knee, because it's what her childhood abuser used to do to signal that abuse was imminent. She told her partner not to do it, but he carried on, saying 'There's nothing wrong with touching someone on the knee.' He was right: Knee touching isn't something you could put on a list of things to watch out for. She left him, because it felt bad, and she was right to, because he was crossing her boundary.

We all have boundaries in different places, and there are no rules about how 'avoidant' a partner is allowed to be. For me, x amount of avoidance is ok. For you, perhaps z amount.

You decide what's right for you, what feels good for you, what feels appropriate for you. You are in charge of who to spend time with, and therefore you are in charge of enforcing your boundaries, by filtering out those who cross them. You can only do it by responding to how you feel. Otherwise, what happens when he does something that's not on the list, but it makes you feel horrible? Do you have to accept it, because he didn't 'break any of the rules'?

@TheFoundations

What you should be looking for isn't a tick-list of traits. There is no external locus of evaluation: it's internal. You need to be looking out for and, crucially, responding to, your emotions. If it feels good, stay. If it feels unpleasant or unsettling, leave.

Everybody has different triggers. I have a friend who couldn't bear to be touched on the knee, because it's what her childhood abuser used to do to signal that abuse was imminent. She told her partner not to do it, but he carried on, saying 'There's nothing wrong with touching someone on the knee.' He was right: Knee touching isn't something you could put on a list of things to watch out for. She left him, because it felt bad, and she was right to, because he was crossing her boundary.

We all have boundaries in different places, and there are no rules about how 'avoidant' a partner is allowed to be. For me, x amount of avoidance is ok. For you, perhaps z amount.

You decide what's right for you, what feels good for you, what feels appropriate for you. You are in charge of who to spend time with, and therefore you are in charge of enforcing your boundaries, by filtering out those who cross them. You can only do it by responding to how you feel. Otherwise, what happens when he does something that's not on the list, but it makes you feel horrible? Do you have to accept it, because he didn't 'break any of the rules'?

Whilst I respect what you’re saying, I’d argue the issue with your example is more the boyfriend showed gross insensitivity - sure, touching a knee is “normal” but if she’d explained the circumstances behind her avoidance then any caring partner would either respect that or else declare it a deal breaker. They wouldn’t just completely ignore what they said and do it anyway. (Presuming she had told her the reason why she didn’t want him to do it. If not, the poor guy isn’t a mind reader and the issue then becomes one of communication).

As someone previously drawn to avoidant types myself, I feel it does help to recognise the red flags in advance. Any decent relationship should have mutual respect - and when talking about “avoidant” people in the OP’s context it’s usually symptomatic of an imbalance: relationships invite deepening connections to achieve intimacy. If this isn’t happening with one party and they’re not being honest (consciously or not) about it, the other ends up over-compensating to balance things out which ends up leading to codependency and, worst case, emotional abuse.

I guess somewhere out there, people who are happy with a partner who finds them disposable and aren’t emotionally connected exist. But surely they’d be better off calling each other FWBs rather than in a serious relationship?

Any decent relationship should have mutual respect

Yes. And that's why we have to rely on our feelings, not tick lists. There's no tick list of what you find disrespectful, or what I find disrespectful. All of the red flags that matter to us will be spotted via looking out for our feelings, including the ones you've mentioned and right up to any kind of abuse.

Tick lists are dangerous. We all know what the feeling is like when we get an inkling that somebody is avoiding us. If we're going from a tick list, we might dismiss that feeling, because the behaviour wasn't listed. Evaluation of emotional issues must be internal.

Avoidants can spend time with you, say they love you etc, but when it's over in their mind it's over. Like a light switch, yesterday I loved you, today I dont.

Any signs of moving forward, moving in, having children, being official - may be met with hesitation.

They may not be 'emotional', talk about their feelings etc.

I dated an avoidant for about 6 months, he was a nice man, he didn't love bomb me or future fake. (I'm an anxious attached, so I do that myself!)

On reflection, he always had one foot out ready to run, one argument and he decided he didn't love me and that was it. I was heartbroken.

My advice - people like this are deeply damaged (I'm excluding narcissists and abusers here) and often aren't aware of how damaged are and certainly shouldn't be trying to conduct relationships as they have little emotional connection to offer.

Anxious attachers are of course the opposite end of this and 'smother' and 'attach' to feel safe, while avoidants disconnect. They tend to attract avoidants and via versa and the push pull relationship begins.

I've had a break from dating and therapy for the anxious attachment, I'm much more aware of my core wounds now. But I've seen many anxious attachers and avoidants in the dating pool.

Dating an unaware or untreated avoidant, might feel good at the time and you might feel like they can change, but in my experience it leads to disappointment.

@countesskay

Avoidants can spend time with you, say they love you etc, but when it's over in their mind it's over. Like a light switch, yesterday I loved you, today I dont.

Any signs of moving forward, moving in, having children, being official - may be met with hesitation.

They may not be 'emotional', talk about their feelings etc.

I dated an avoidant for about 6 months, he was a nice man, he didn't love bomb me or future fake. (I'm an anxious attached, so I do that myself!)

On reflection, he always had one foot out ready to run, one argument and he decided he didn't love me and that was it. I was heartbroken.

My advice - people like this are deeply damaged (I'm excluding narcissists and abusers here) and often aren't aware of how damaged are and certainly shouldn't be trying to conduct relationships as they have little emotional connection to offer.

Anxious attachers are of course the opposite end of this and 'smother' and 'attach' to feel safe, while avoidants disconnect. They tend to attract avoidants and via versa and the push pull relationship begins.

I've had a break from dating and therapy for the anxious attachment, I'm much more aware of my core wounds now. But I've seen many anxious attachers and avoidants in the dating pool.

Dating an unaware or untreated avoidant, might feel good at the time and you might feel like they can change, but in my experience it leads to disappointment.

@countesskay wow. That was exactly what happened with me. We were absolutely fine when I didn’t push for anything more from him. The moment I did, and the moment we had our first proper, full argument (I’d mentioned things before but not a blazing argument), he went cold, distant, totally withdrew. It broke my heart too.

Everything you say is so spot on. I wanted to try and bring him out of his shell emotionally. He couldn’t do it. The saddest thing for me was that I do think he wanted those things in life but I’m not sure he knew how to do it. He would rarely say how he felt. He told me he loved me once, first. I said it back and he never again said it first. He always seemed uncomfortable with any proper emotion.

When I look back on it all it was actually quite scary. I didn’t really know the man. He had this sort of bubble around him that meant he couldn’t open up properly and I was always at arms length. He had a lot of issues and yes, he wouldn’t even acknowledge that maybe he wasn’t behaving in a healthy way. I’m sure he’s much happier without me!!

@ countesskay, As someone not involved in any relationship, I know it is none of my business but also speaking as one of the 'deeply damaged' but female personality types discussed here, I think referring to anyone as 'an avoidant' is dehumanising.

The subject of avoidant attachment is very complicated and has a spectrum like any other personality traits. Any insecurely attached person has elements of avoidant traits even anxiously attached people who are usually seen as the opposite of an 'avoidant'. Anxious types can deep down want to avoid getting close hence being drawn to avoidant types who will push them away. It's a defence mechanism developed in childhood to protect against unattuned parenting and abuse. Alain de Botton has some very good videos on YouTube regarding this.

So as an insecurely attached person myself, what I have discovered is that a relationship can only work well if two 'avoidants' are willing to work on their childhood wounding. That or hook up with a securely attached person who will naturally model secure behaviour. So I would say if you keep meeting 'avoidants' you need to look at your own attachment defence mechanisms and work on moving towards a more secure attachment so that you either attract a securely attached mate or can recognise where it's going wrong and what to do about it.

You both have to want to do this. I was married for a long time to a dismissive avoidant but was clueless as my childhood had trained me well to be the anxious seeker in the dynamic. I did want to get help, my exH thought there was nothing wrong with him, I was just too 'needy'. He was unwilling to explore feelings. Marriage counselling only came when I did leave and it was too late for me.

I hope that makes sense.

Rather than looking for that, best to just decide if you are comfortable in his presence and comlatable.

As for wanting to spend all their rune with you though.. look up 'love bombing'. Just incase.

Fs
*comfortable and compatable.
*time with you

How to cope with an avoidant partner, School of Life, on YouTube if anyone is interested in the dynamics of avoidant/anxious relationships.

I've just left an avoidant partner after two years and 3 attempts to get it right.

It got to the point where trying to book anything in the diary more than a few days ahead was impossible. always thinking there would be a better offer. Always one foot out of the door and looking for imperfections. Continually making a big deal about independence and not needing anybody else whilst sadly simultaneously craving attention and love. Very up and down. Exhausting.

I've realised never able to commit. And I don't believe this will change for anybody they meet in the future.

I don't think there's a tick list for this. Unfortunately, the only way to tell for sure is to give the relationship time. If it doesn't progress (assuming you're not trying to rush things yourself), then that's the biggest clue. Some people can put on a very good act.

And just to complicate things, I think it's also possible for someone (probably those that are generally secure, or anxious avoidants) to exhibit different attachment styles in different relationships to an extent - they might be avoidant in one relationship, but anxious in another. Or they might change attachment during the course of a relationship - might start out as anxious and end up avoidant (or the other way round).

@altmember, totally agree. I started out as the anxious one in my marriage and eventually became avoidant as I basically gave up on my dismissive avoidant husband. He became anxious right at the end when he realised I was serious about leaving but the love and respect had gone for me by then. Unfortunately my exH was so rigid in his need for control of the relationship, nothing ever got resolved. He insisted on total independence for both of us.

Therapy has improved my attachment immensely, particularly communicating my needs to my partner, that and finding someone with a more secure attachment style himself. It can be done but takes work and commitment. Unfortunately lots of avoidants are reluctant to go there which is what can cause a lot of misery in relationships.

I do think like other PPs have said if a relationship 'feels' insecure or unsatisfying your options are to try to work on it or to leave.

Attachment styles only display themselves when we come up against troubles of some kind, and it's very often when we're trying to be close to someone who has a conflicting style to ours. So, if you're avoidant, things are fine when you're happy, but if your partner starts to get a bit to 'needy' (anxious) for your preferences, you get more avoidant. And then there's the classic situation of 'I'm trying everything I can to fix this, and my partner is getting more and more withdrawn'.

It works the other way round, too. If you're more on the anxious side, things are fine when you're happy, but if your partner seems to pull away a little, you get more and more clingy.

None of this feels nice.

The trick isn't to spot what 'avoidant' looks like. It's to find somebody with the right level of avoidance for your preferences.

Find somebody who doesn't trigger your attachment style. Analyse yourself, rather than them.

That's the difficulty though isn't it. You won't necessarily be able to identify someone's attachment style until there is a conflict in the relationship. It's usually roses when you first get together with someone. You're in love and have a very positive view of the other person and have become 'attached' to them. Conflict often comes later on.

There isn't a way to avoid being vulnerable to hurt before you get hurt I have seen some suggestions about testing the person by saying no and seeing how they react but we're often on our best behaviours at the beginning.

The ideal is to find someone securely attached which is difficult if you are insecurely attached as you may find them alien and uncomfortable to be around. Your parents really do f**k you up!

Very interesting to read. Have been dating someone who carries the traits of avoidant. We've been seeing each other for over a year, been exclusive from the start, for all purposes I would call it a relationship but nope. He's undecided. Firstly he was not in the right place as had no job. Then he lost his mum. Then work picked up so he had no time. Then he had to go to his home country and 'reset for the future' as he said. Then he lost his dad so now dealing with that so I cannot really push, nor leave him at this time as that would be cruel. So not easy on him, but we have been there for each other, so why? I was about to let him go a couple of times - he was adamant we are moving into the right direction and he imagined us as a family; houses and children have been discussed and agreed upon but never moved beyond this point. If anything he is not future faking. I've met some of his friends as 'a friend' or a 'special friend'.

I'd say totally avoidant but he did had a relationship before where they moved in shortly after meeting and then broke up after a year - it was stormy and didn't work and so he is afraid... but come on when we have been seeing each other for longer than his last relationship!! But maybe shows he can commit but I am not the right one for him?

Anyway our relationship (or friendship...) has been fantastic otherwise so I have held out so far due to his circumstances (family deaths) but it really does take toll on the self esteem.

@Dacquoise

That's the difficulty though isn't it. You won't necessarily be able to identify someone's attachment style until there is a conflict in the relationship. It's usually roses when you first get together with someone. You're in love and have a very positive view of the other person and have become 'attached' to them. Conflict often comes later on.

There isn't a way to avoid being vulnerable to hurt before you get hurt I have seen some suggestions about testing the person by saying no and seeing how they react but we're often on our best behaviours at the beginning.

The problems come when people first encounter conflict in their relationship, and instead of identifying 'This person doesn't resolve conflict in a way I can manage emotionally', and walking away from the relationship, they try, or they avoid.

The problem shows itself quite early, signalling the beginning of the end of the 'honeymoon' period, it's when people blame themselves/their partner, rather than recognising incompatibility, that it gets really difficult.

Totally agree with your last paragraph @TheFoundations, because I didn't recognise the conflict style, because of my own childhood, that I accepted the blame for issues with my exH, which led to a total lack of resolution. That went on for 20 years until I got out! Therapy has definitely changed that for me. I changed myself and the way I deal with conflict.

People who are securely attached really have won the lottery in life as they are able to recognise and deal with this quite naturally.

Out of interest, what is your attachment style @Thefoundations ?

Similar history to yours actually, @Dacquoise

I had a pretty anxious style as a result of inconsistent parenting, then had counselling and leveled myself out. I think that the avoidant type have it worst, to be honest. They can avoid problems in the moment, but long term, they're much less likely to work out what's wrong because they don't look at the problem. Anxious types are constantly worrying about what's wrong with them personally. The most useful thing I learned in counselling was that the only thing wrong with me was that I though something was wrong with me!

Ditto! I was the scapegoat in a family of avoidants. Logically it couldn't be all them, must be me mustn't it? Nope, it's definitely them and unresolvable, unfortunately. My therapist says people who don't think they're 'mad' have the issue.

I hope anyone reading this will get some insight into a very common issue
In relationships. There is help out there if you seek it