Am I being unreasonable?

[Secondchancesally]

Hi, I’m a long time lurker of mumsnet but never posted before. I would love some advice on my situation, please be honest but not brutal.

I am recently divorced (2 years ago) and decided to dip my toe in the dating area. I met a lovely guy (also divorced) who has two kids. We have been dating for 6 months and I have recently met his kids. I get on well with the kids and things were going good.

The only problem I his ex wife. She is still very involved in his life, texting him every day with seemingly random questions and unnecessary phone calls etc. I find it hard and have tried to discuss it with him but he always says it’s stuff about the kids and is necessary.

Last night, we were about to go to bed after putting my LG down (3 year old). We usually would watch TV and snuggle, I know we sound like exciting people (LOL!). Anyway, he goes downstairs to get something and was gone a while. Then I can hear him talking very quietly to someone.

I came down the stairs to hear him saying “right OK, right OK” and then bye. I asked who he was on the phone to and he said his ex name. I was shocked. He had been talking in a hushed voice clearly trying to hide the fact he was on the phone. I asked him why he had called her and he said he had a missed call and had called her back.

I said to him surely he could have just text to ask if all was OK, after all it was only one missed call and if it was something urgent surely she would have called more times and or text saying call me urgently?

He instantly got angry and said I was being unreasonable. Then said what was wrong with calling his children back, to which I pointed out it was his ex wife he was calling not his kids (both of whom have their own phones!).

Anyway, I said I didn’t want to argue so went up to bed. He came up but then sat on the bed not getting in. I asked him if he was getting in and he said I was out of order for questioning him and he was p**sed off with me?! 🤷‍♀️

I repeated that I don’t want to argue and it’s our weekend together (he has his kids alternate weekends) so just leave it.

He said he was too annoyed so was going home. He then got dressed and left with me asking him not to and saying he was ruining our weekend time together. He left anyway.

I spoke to a friend after he left and also reflected myself and it now seems he was deliberately keeping the argument going so he could leave and I’m now questioning if it was something to do with the call from the ex.

I feel really left down and like I mean nothing due to the fact he could just walk out and leave me.

What I really want to know is was I unreasonable to expect him to text the ex rather than make a secret hushed phone call? Also, is it likely he could be up to something or am I overthinking?

Sorry for the long post and thank you if you’ve read this far.

You’re over thinking. It wasn’t a secret call for starters. He was speaking loud enough for you to hear him.

He had a missed call & called her back. It’s really not a big deal.

Have you thought he was speaking in hushed tones because he knows you don't like him speaking to the ex and he was trying to avoid grief from you? I can see why he's irritated by you to be honest. Out of interest, why did your first marriage end? If it was because of cheating you could be projecting.

What need was there for her to call him? To annoy you and get in the way of your time? He needs to put you first, not the ex.

He avoided having a confrontation with you by sneaking off to return a call. He avoided a confrontation with her by returning the call. He avoided further confrontation by leaving.

He avoids things and doesn’t like confrontation. That can be a frustrating person to have a relationship with.

You should write this one off. Because he isn’t going to change. You will keep being frustrated and confrontational when this happens. He will run off, you will apologise and try to “make it right”.

This is the type of thing tells you that the relationship isn’t going to work despite attraction.

Honestly, I can see his side here. You had a go at him and then shut his reply down with “I don’t want to argue”. That is maddening, IMO.

Yeah I think he engineered that argument. Who knows for what reason, but this sounds like way too much hassle for me. Plenty of me thinks out there who aren't still emotionally entangled with an ex.

Me thinks = men 😂

I wouldn't be liking the calls whej you're meant to be in bed together. If you feel like this there's a reason and he will clearly keep making the calls. That means this isn't going to work, so you know what to do.

A hushed tones phone call with his ex when he was meant to be going to bed with you isn't on. If I noticed a missed call from someone under those circumstances I'd send a quick message saying sorry I missed your call, is everything OK? As you said, if it was something urgent she would no doubt have called more than once or left a message.

Of course ex's have to talk when there are children involved, but daily calls and messages, and a hushed call when he's meant to be in bed with you is something else.

It sounds like they are still very invested in each others' lives. It's possible that has made you more sensitive than you really need to be.

But him kicking off and leaving sounds like it was orchestrated. And / or he knows they are closer than they should be and feels guilty so deflected.

I think there is blame on both sides here. It sounds like you overreacted a bit to him making a quick call to his ex. But he definitely overreacted to walk out and not stay the night, and I agree it is possible (but not certain) that he wanted to leave for some reason related to his ex / children and was not honest about that.

How long since he and his ex split up?

Thanks for your replies so far, it is beneficial to hear both sides and you do all have some good points about both me and him. To answer some of your questions and provide context...

My marriage ended because my ex didn't like helping with our daughter. Our lives changed (of course) when we had our daughter and he didn't like it. He pulled away from us and decided to leave. There was some deceit as he did have secret bank accounts I found out about through the divorce process. So I could be projecting the trust issues, although I have had 2 years of counselling (still ongoing) and my counsellor knows about me dating so I'm not sure if I am projecting or not.

As a side note, the ex wife has a new partner who she has been with since 2 months after her marriage ended (my now bf cheated on the wife and she kicked him out). There has been trouble in the past with her new partner and my bf not getting on as her new partner thought something was going on between her and him (I'm not the only one then) as they were still too invested in each other's lives.

She does tend to call and text in the evenings when she knows we will be together and I have thought in the past it's deliberate. My frustration comes from him allowing it. I know he has no control over her behaviour, but he can control his response. Surely he could keep her at arms length by just texting rather than calling and the. If she says it's urgent he could call?

It's also, him leaving. I know some have said he has done this to avoid confrontation which is probably correct, but I did ask him not to leave to stay and talk it through and sort it out as I didn't want us to loose our time together, which is limited. But he left anyway, do you think that means he doesn't care, or am I over reacting with that conclusion?

Also, it's 7 years since he and his ex split.

It’s a vicious circle, isn’t it? If you kick off or make it obvious you’re not happy when he speaks to his ex, he’s going to try and conceal it from you to avoid an argument. And then the more he conceals it, the more you think it must be suspicious, and the more unhappy you show you are.

I think if you’re the sort of person who’s insecure about the women who came before you, you need to find men who don’t have any children or only adult children and therefore have no reason to be in regular contact with their children’s mother. This man isn’t right for you, because to make him and the relationship into what you want you’re going to be asking him to change things he doesn’t want to change, and that’s never a good start to a healthy relationship.

I would have thought he was talking in hushed tones so as not to wake your dc who you'd just put to bed.
But there you go.

How long has your boyfriend and his ex been separated?

Of COURSE she calls/messages on the days you are together. Surely that's because she has the kids, so would have something to communicate with him about?

Also, yes he should call her back.the ex probably calls after the kids have gone to bed, which WOULD be in the evening.

OP
They are probably still figuring out how to co-parent. It is massively unfair of you to dictate how they do this. I would be pissed off too.
Isn't it healthy for them to be able to discuss their child's issues etc, not just emergencies?

Seems like a lot of aggro and over involvement for someone you have only been dating for 6 months. Surely you should both still be at the going out for dinner and getting to know each other stage, rather than meeting kids and staying in each other's homes? Pull back a bit and get to know him better then work out of you have a future together with his ex in it, because she will still be there for the sake of his DC.

@spotcheck

How long has your boyfriend and his ex been separated?

Of COURSE she calls/messages on the days you are together. Surely that's because she has the kids, so would have something to communicate with him about?

Also, yes he should call her back.the ex probably calls after the kids have gone to bed, which WOULD be in the evening.

OP
They are probably still figuring out how to co-parent. It is massively unfair of you to dictate how they do this. I would be pissed off too.
Isn't it healthy for them to be able to discuss their child's issues etc, not just emergencies?

They have been separated for 7 years so I would have hoped they had worked out the co-parenting thing by now.

I suppose the problem is that he has been single for that time (on and off sexual partners but nothing resembling a relationship). So he had been at her beckon call for all those years and now he has another aspect to his life that he has to consider.

I do understand to a point as I have to co-parent with my ex who does see my daughter when it suits him. However I keep our communication to a minimum as I have no desire to talk to him unless it's about our child.

I think you should knock this one on the head, you've not been together that long so it shouldn't be too hard to get out of. That you know he cheated so she kicked him out, is quite damning, says a lot about his character. If he will do that to the mother of his DC's, he won't think twice about doing it to you in future ( or maybe even now if he was looking for an excuse to leave, do you know where he went?). If after 7 years he's that entwined still that they speak daily on the phone, it's not going to get any better, this is how they will continue to roll. You really don't have to put up with it.

In the light of your update it sounds like you have nothing to worry about, as they split up a long time ago and she has a long term partner. You may think they're "too close", but that's a judgement on your part - there's nothing going on between them (or at least it seems unlikely there is), so it's up to him what co-parenting relationship he has with her, and it's up to you whether it is consistent with meeting your needs.

I think him leaving is a bad sign to be honest. He probably wasn't sneaking off to be with his ex but it does imply that he's a sulker who isn't great at communication.

I do understand to a point as I have to co-parent with my ex who does see my daughter when it suits him. However I keep our communication to a minimum as I have no desire to talk to him unless it's about our child.

But that's your relationship with your ex, not his.

He has form for cheating, is that in the back of your mind constantly by any chance? If he can do it to someone he had children with (you said she kicked him out so it sounds like he wasn't planning on leaving) he can do it to anyone else easily

@ParmigianoReggiano

In the light of your update it sounds like you have nothing to worry about, as they split up a long time ago and she has a long term partner. You may think they're "too close", but that's a judgement on your part - there's nothing going on between them (or at least it seems unlikely there is), so it's up to him what co-parenting relationship he has with her, and it's up to you whether it is consistent with meeting your needs.

I think him leaving is a bad sign to be honest. He probably wasn't sneaking off to be with his ex but it does imply that he's a sulker who isn't great at communication.

I understand what you're saying. I just for once would like us to have some time without her interrupting.

I have my child 90% of the time and still manage to fit time in for us uninterrupted. So I don't see why his ex always needs to pop up in our time.

Also, I just felt uncomfortable that he called her back in a hushed voice downstairs it felt deceitful. Then when I was upset about it he didn't seem to care. Then he left and I've heard nothing from him today.

At first I was gonna say you were being unfair and that if this contact annoys you now then its time to leave because it is NEVER gonna change. She is his kids mum.

But..a 'hushed phonecall'..nah. He is shagging someone else, sorry.

He also gaslighted you and arranged that argument.

At six months in it should all be fun and laughs still. Not drama. And there should never, ever be the toxic situation you've described above in a relationship. Cut this one loose.

So no, you aren't overthinking.

Hushed phonecall always means they are doing the dirty elsewhere (or trying to). I wouldn't actually be surprised if he engeneered that argument in order to go see that person. Maybe she is sick of him spending all that time messaging his 'ex wife' too.

I feel your pain. My boyfriends ex is a bad smell in our relationship. They had no kids. Spilt in 2019. They have a friendship which is basically texting and very rarely they had a cuppa. But since I came along a year ago he has only seen her once last December. Its the weirdest thing. She texts him to ask him why he has certain women on his Facebook. She said she didn't trust women and put me on the list.
I still think it's likely She will be the reason we split up. I've told him a couple of times now I can see her making us fail. He just sees me as being insecure and depending on how he feels about her that day he's either defensive and says she means more to him than family as she was there for him, or he will say she's history and she's in the past. He does his best to reassure me but I think they are disrespectful to me with their little text sessions. I never see the messages. I never know how often they speak. A few weeks ago I know she had gone quiet and he was being more negative but she must be in touch again now as he's said things in the last few days that she had questioned why he had a woman on his Facebook she knew.

I said to my boyfriend that it's fine. He's made it clear she's in his life and always will be so if I don't feel happy about it I'll have to walk away.. that was my way of saying fair enough you are saying you will never give her up to make me happy so I'm saying in return there are no guarantees I'll stick around.

That's the only suggestion I can give. Let him know that you will take so much and then you'll be done if you feel he's putting her first. It's wrong and so unfair on the new partner. I understand communication for the kids. But why hurt your new partner to keep an ex as a friend? They are an ex for a reason. There's no future.

I would have happily accepted his ex. But she was never happy about me. He never introduced us. He mentioned her too much. They text and I never see the messages. She's possessive. He doesn't like men she's linked with. So overall they've made me feel this way. They have an unhealthy thing that will destroy new relationships. I love him to bits but I don't see long term due to this.