Falling out in the family

[Whatsnottolike]

I’m not sure what to do. My DH has fallen out with my parents to the point where he says he won’t be in the same room as them ever again. How do you manage life in this way? I feel like he’ll resent me for seeing them with the kids and I’ll resent him if he stops us.

I’m close to my parents who have helped us loads with childcare etc. My mum is also ill at the moment and will shortly be starting cancer treatment.

I’m so angry at the timing of this disagreement but need to find a practical way of moving forward. I don’t think I’m going to change his mind (he’s really angry) and there is no love lost on either side clearly. Just me stuck in the middle!

Has anyone been in a similar situation or can give me some perspective. I feel completely lost.

What led up to him falling out with your parents?. This may well have been building up over a long period of time; has he been relegated by your parents to the sidelines?. No one single event either likely caused this position he has now adopted.

What are your boundaries like with regards to your parents?. Are you actually in each other's pockets and do you know the minutae of each other's lives?. In an enmeshed family, there are no boundaries between the family members. Instead of the strong bonds that signal a well-functioning family unit, family members are fused together by unhealthy emotion.

Boundaries are important because they create space for family members to become independent. Without boundaries, roles and expectations are mixed up in two ways:-
Parents become over-reliant on their children.
Children are not allowed to individuate, or to separate from their parents and form their own identity. This is why I am asking you if you can state regarding your parents that you are indeed your own person, an adult with agency.

There is "close" and there is enmeshment; the latter certainly is unhealthy within family units.

How you deal with really depends on what caused it and where you stand on the falling out.

I agree- we need to know more about the circumstances of the fallout. My DH really dislikes my parents. They are actually abusive, but I didn't realise that until recently. DH saw it much earlier than I did because he hadn't been raised with it as a norm.

So it's hard to tell if your DH is the problem here.

Does he have a point?

Tell us more about what the falling out was about?

@AttilaTheMeerkat I think you’ve probably hit the nail on the head. They are very active in our lives, looking after the kids while we are at work, holidays etc. DH says we are enmeshed.

The argument was about something DH wanted to raise that he was upset about. He wanted to discuss an issue in order to put his view across and have them listen to him. I don’t really want to say what it was as it might be outing. I thought he said his piece in a mature manner but they felt attacked and basically told him that they’ve never liked him and he saw red. I guess he’s felt sidelined for years and this was the ultimate rejection.

I just don’t know how to move forward especially with my mum being ill. I feel really caught in the middle. I can see him point of view and would happily create better boundaries with them but I can’t cut them out.

You feel in the middle because you have put yourself there.

Your mum being ill, is a complication, but doesn't excuse their behaviour.

Have they never liked him? You can support your husband without falling out with you parents.

Have you told them you think he was reasonable raising the issue and their reaction was out of order?

I'm sorry you've got such a stressful family situation, with your mum also being ill, however it sounds like your parents are totally in the wrong here.

If he said his piece in a mature manner as you've said, and as adults people should be able to discuss difficult topics that effect them and their relationships - then their response was "we've never liked you" to their son in law, the father of their grandchildren etc I would also see red.

I don't think he's in the wrong - they've basically just ruined the relationship with him, and I don't think they can come back from that, as I for one wouldn't believe it if they now back-pedalled on saying that. It's an incredibly hurtful thing to say.

I think to move forward you can maintain your relationship with them, but I think out of respect for your DP there needs to be firm boundaries (e.g not having them in the house when he's there, not waxing lyrical about them around him, not expecting him to do drop offs or events with them etc basically whatever he is comfortable with).

I don't think he should stop you seeing them with the children, however I don't think it should ever fall on him to be involved in this / make plans around this or anything similar. He's in essence just been totally rejected by what is essentially his second family who were heavily involved in his life.

I hope you're feeling okay, and it will probably take time to find the right balance here - but I think he needs a lot of your support right now.

OP,

Difficult position but it appears you have brought it on yourself.

If your parents have chosen to disrespect your husband and you want to continue to be involved then you need to accept the consequences of it costing you your marriage.

You are choosing to put your parents and yourself ahead of your family, marriage and children.

That is down to you.

I would be fully supoorting your husband in this.

The right thing to do would be to tell your parents they were wrong and that they need to apologise to your husband or unfortunately you will have to stay away.

That is the right thing to do IMO.

By continuing contact you are reinforcing your disrespect and if he no longer wants to stay married to you, he would be entitled to do so.

It’s not good that they said they’ve never liked him. Sounds very immature. Disagreements happen, but it’s hard to resolve things with that kind of statement. But then your husband is saying he’ll never be in the same room as them again, and that’s not helpful either.

Involvement isn’t the same thing as enmeshment, but if you think your husband has a point then you will need to develop better boundaries. And that will probably take some counselling or therapy because it’s very difficult to do.

I’m assuming your mum’s illness is a separate issue and shouldn’t really be the focus of the problem. Or is that wrong?

Sorry but I this was you posting about your in laws everyone would being saying the issue is with your dh.

You need to back up your husband and tell your parents that their behaviour and treatment of him is unacceptable.

Chances are their reaction is purely based on guilt and the knowledge that your dh is right and they don't like being called out on it. You need to back him up.

You need to disentangle your life from theirs and create boundaries if you want your marriage to survive

I too come from an enmeshed family and know how difficult it can be. You should not be feeling any guilt about falling out with them on the eve of your mum's cancer treatment. They don't get to tell your DH they've never liked him and then have you come running out of guilt and obligation. This is not healthy and boundaries here aren't healthy.

Ask yourself: have you tried to guilt your husband into coming around to your way of thinking with your parents? If the answer is yes, you are repeating patterns.

Your DH and your children are your immediate unit here. Put them first. Especially your DH.

If my parents spoke about DH like that it would jeopardise my relationship with them, and it would be the same with my in-laws. This is assuming that your DH was being polite and raising a valid point (too many sweets or whatever).

I don’t think I’d ever forgive someone who said they’d never liked me either. I get it, I’m from an enmeshed family as well and I know that toxic family members are very threatened by normal and emotionally healthy people like your DH.

Thank you all so much. You’re all right and the fact that I couldn’t see it shows how messed up this situation is.

It was a really difficult conversation but my parents are unable to take any sort of criticism. It obviously escalated to the point where they said they’ve never liked him and there was wrong on both sides but they crossed a major line. They will never acknowledge this or apologise for their part. He will be painted as the villain too because of the timing!

I’ve chatted to my DH and said I will create boundaries with them. I need to put my family first. My DH is not perfect, far from it, but I love him and I don’t want our family to split up. I struggle to see a life without my parent being very present but I will get some counselling. If the shoe were on the other foot he would cut his parents out without hesitation. Mine will never apologise and never change. They would happily sweep it under the table but it’s too late. I’m just sorry it got to this point.

Thanks again for you help!

Good for you OP.

Your parents refusal to apologise is on them.

Tell them they chose to behave like that towards your husband, so they have to accept the consequences.

Reflect on how you would feel in his shoes.

Your parents can say the timing was awful and you can agree and say "Yes, they/you chose an awful time to tell MY husband they/you never liked him".

Timing can work both ways.

Make it clear to your parents that you will not allow THEIR AWFUL BEHAVIOUR to damage your marriage, family and childrens home.

You owe it to your children to put their family first OP.

Wow. I think you should take your husband's side in as non confrontational a way as you can.

I've seen similar attempts to shut down and control family members and it doesn't end quickly if all the other family members stick their heads in the sand.

Tell your parents ''what happened was that H said how he felt, as he has every right to do, and your reaction to that has been inappropriate'''.

Keep sticking to that. If you don't, your parents will think they can pull your strings indefinitely.

My parents are cut from this cloth. I'm 51 and they're still so ''wounded'' when I don't see things how they see them. That's an act of aggression I've perpetrated against them. They are the victims of me if I have my own perspective and interpret things differently.

The situation has gone on and on and on because other family members just turn a blind eye and ignore it.

If one of the supposedly rational family members said ''no, what Danu has done is told you that you hurt her. You didn't listen, you stonewalled her and your reaction to was disproportionately martyred. But nobody ever speaks out! It's all sitting on fences and walking tightropes. OMG it'll just never end becuase while it's all of them against just me they can get away with the behavior

When you said your parents can take no criticism, I thought, bingo.

listen to this video

But are you enmeshed, is your DH right? Was what he needed to voice his opinion on actually correct.... Did you agree with whatever it was?

ps, recommend the therapy if you can afford it on top of the extra child care!

It's really helped me stay grounded.

I don't need my family of origin as much as I need to be free from anxiety to know my own truth and to have the right to my own perspective.

My parents really hurt me and again, I won't say it becuase I'm boring myself but my father said to my brother ''an apology would be wholly inappropriate'' which actually floored me, even 18 months after the original falling out. They know that they hurt me. They don't deny what I have put to them (and it went on for decades) but they feel entitled to have done it? They feel they had the right to hurt me? They feel they are the judge of whether or not I have the right to be hurt?

And I guess your parents feel they have done so much for your family that the only thing your husband is allowed to feel is gratitude.

This is so immature.

What is so dangerous for them about a conversation where you tweak what's going on and modify what you're doing so that it works for all? Why are they so terrified of that?

The father of their grandchildren respectfully asked them to consider his view on an important matter and they leapt up on the cross and told him they'd never liked him.

Sigh. I recognise this mindset. So tedious.

18 months after my mum breezily glossed over decades of hurt caused to me (never acknowledged, never discussed) with a bored wave of her hand and an order to ''move on'' and there has been no apology.

So you're right in your assessment that there will never be an apology. Some people are so incapable of apologising.

Very similar thing happened with my DH and my parents about 5 years ago. It was never resolved and they don't speak unless it can't be avoided. DH has never tried to stop me or the DC seeing them though, he just chooses to have no contact himself and I respect that. I would rather it was resolved but have accepted that it probably won't be.

“He said his peace in a mature manner “but was he right or was his criticism unfair .If his criticism was unwarranted and unjustified then that might explain their reaction .

I thought he said his piece in a mature manner but they felt attacked and basically told him that they’ve never liked him and he saw red. I guess he’s felt sidelined for years and this was the ultimate rejection

This sidelining that's gone on for years - is that something you've addressed properly with your DPs before, or have you just sort of let it go?

Because if it's the latter, I'd gently suggest you need to look at your own part in this. As you say, it's probably too late for your DH's relationship with them, but watch out for resentment of yourself and what that could lead to, and maybe have a think about your loyalty to him

I've fallen out with my dbro and sil, was this conversation said face to face? My fall out was based around the fact they had planned nephews first birthday and it was the day of dh husbands birthday and we had made plans. She continued to be rude and respectful in her replies and so I lost my temper told her who the heck she was speaking to like that. We limit now the time we spend with them but I'd be damned if she thinks she can speak to me the way she spoke to my mother previously. Saying they never liked him was unforgiveable I don't think there's anything to come back to. I'd keep them separate if you can.

Your parents felt able to say to your DH that they never liked him because they know you wont do anything as you view yourself in the 'middle'.. Your relationship is toxic but you dont see it so dont support your DH. I recognise it as my DH is the same with his parents. My DH even said to me recenlty that his parents dont like me anyway. As it was easier to say that than deal with the reality that his parents were shitbags ...so focussed the attention on me. It is not nice being with a partner who doesnt have your back with their parents, someone who doesnt care how bad they treat their partner but keep making excuses and maintaining the enmeshed relationship. Your DH has every right to step back as you havent bothered to support him. Your lucky he hasnt left...it took an 'event' for my DH to snap at his parents and they went NC for a while before things changed