Men who choose work over family

[3lilbirds]

So my relationship of more than a decade is ending. Has ended? In a conversation last night he told me that he is not coming back to the house. This is after I told him that if he keeps treating me like I'm invisible I don't want him here. He has been badly impacted by lockdown, pressures on his business etc etc and we had a baby at the beginning of lockdown, our third.

But honestly, I think he can't handle the pressures of being a father. His own father left his family, and they were pretty destitute. He seems to think as long as his business is surviving and he can contribute money to the children he's doing well as a father (as in compared to his own, which is true, but it's a low bar), and he talks about 'legacy' for them and their future. He truly thinks if the kids hardly see him now, they'll forgive him when he can drop millions in their lap at age 25 or something.

But, I he also says 'if it wasn't for the kids, I would work all the time, no breaks, my business would be my life'.

He says lots of other stuff, but I can only sum it up as what I understand - he is choosing the business over family, and tells himself it's not selfish or ego-driven because he's doing it for the kids (Though yes, he says if it wasn't for the kids he'd be even more on it!).

He says he no longer 'loves' me, and I think at least huge part of it is that he resents me for having the kids who are the reason he cannot work all hours. I didn't;t hoodwink him with any of our kids. I wasn't using contraception, never did really since falling surprise pregnant with the first, but somehow of course it's my fault. I remember him once saying 'wow you must be fertile' - nothing about maybe him being really fertile! Some men do make me wonder sometimes....

We are now splitting and I said 'ok, so do you see this as being 50/50 with etc children' he says no, he can't, he's working. Which I knew he'd say.

I just think he has looked at it and seen that he can't do both and I;m a good mum, t he kids will be alright, he's off the build a billion dollar business, or whatever.

I'm just wondering whether anyone else has had experience of a man who put career /business over family and what happened next. I want to know what other f*&keries to expect!!!!

I can't end this without saying that he works monster hours but is very present in the children's lives. He wakes up with them in morning, breakfast, school run, then goes to the office, stays there until 12/1, comes home, does it again (no, we didn't get any time together the last 18 months since lockdown, it's been kids and business, and then the new baby, a bit overwhelming for all). But he's fun, daddy, loving daddy. I collected one of the DC from school together ad teacher mentioned that DC said they were sad because dad is away (he's away on business trip of about a month, there have been lots of those since travelled opened up again) and last night one of them was wiling tears because they missed daddy.

So now that he is not coming home from this trip I'm just so goddamn sad for them. They have huge expectations of seeing daddy everyday. And that will now be EOW when he's in the country, and when he isn't they will now have to know he's not coming home.

I despair for them. I am so so so distraught. My kids face when I collected them from school today was so sad, they miss their dad so much. But it just won't work. Business, and work has killed our relationship. He won't get therapy to talk about any of these issues mentioned above, says he can't face it, can't face what person it might be apparent he has become.

Running this business has changed him so much, he's really not the man he was or whom `I chose to have children with.

It's all so aaarrrggghhhh. And I just want to have ideas about what is on the horizon for the children.

@femfemlicious

Yu said relationship, not marriage?. I think you were unreasonable to have 3 children with a man you are not married to. You may find he may not be as financially responsible for you once you seperate. You have really dug yourself into a hole here. Sorry

I might have some sympathy with this perspective if I was financially dependent upon him. I'm not. OR if marriage was foolproof protection from separation. It is not.

Marriage would mean I could now go after more of his money if he did decide to stop supporting his children completely, but I wouldn't. Not because I'm too good for that, or spoiled, or filthy rich, but jus because I can pay my own way and life is too short. I need to stay physically and mentally healthy for my kiddies now, so I'm not really looking at it like. this.

So you've no need to be sorry!

Why will you be lonely ?
You might find a man that wants to spend time with you.
You are too young to settle and do what he wants. Kick him out and start your new life.
The kids will soon settle into a new normal.

@TheLastLonelyBakedBeanInTheTin

It sounds like you have multiple children and because of his own upbringing one of his main driving forces is to provide for them financially and make sure they never have to experience deprivation. He might be does seem to have not been there as a husband in sacrifice of work, which is not Ok, but it doesn't sound like he's been a bad Dad. He's giving his kids and his work everything. I've never met anyone with a new baby who wanted a 50:50 arrangement but if that is what you want then would he really not be happy to try and find a way to manage that if you were also building a career? Because if it's just a practical decision based on one of you being a SAHP and the other the soul provider for the family, then 50:50 doesn't seem logical at all. Is he still planning to support you well financially? Does he still want to be present in their lives but just struggling with the demands of his business? Or does he not want contact etc? It sounds to me like he does want to spend time with them, just to no longer do that in the family home which is part of him leaving his wife not his kids. Time will tell and there are a lot of men who are crappy fathers and use a break up as an excuse to opt out of parenting and into being a single person again, and I really hope that's not the case. But that doesn't seem to me the person you are describing. He doesn't seem to be motivated by financial success so much as by his hope to give his child a better life than he had. It is hard to get that balance right.

I REALLY hope this too.

he is very much allowed to end the relationship with me. It is a surprise to most people who are hearing about this now, his sister called me recently and couldn't believe it, for example, it's so out of character, or at least who he was and we had an excellent relationship. But people do change and things do change.

So I'm hoping you are right and his commitments to his children do not waver and that he does manage to see them more than EOW.

I started from the position of 50/50 because we are both their parents, not because I wanted it. to be honest, I want to see my kids every single day. They are great little people.

@Dozer

I think you should reflect on YOUR choices here, to have three DC with a workaholic who wasn’t taking well to fatherhood.

A key risk now is that your ex sees much, much less of the DC and this is bad for their mental health and wellbeing.

As part of progressing divorce, I would seek urgent mediation to seek to agree how much time you will each have the DC, and set out your concerns about this risk.

Sounds like there’s no hope for your relationship with him, so would focus primarily on appealing to him to curtail travel and working hours in order to parent his DC for X% of the time.

Agreed.

I'm seeking opinions here as `a way to think about the multifaceted nature of these options, if x, then y, but when if z etc. Very tricky.

I really want then to seem loads. how to do that in a way that I am not living my life around them having time him? I can see it becoming something like me filling in time between them seeing him for fun. Does that make sense? Basically being the nanny and just constantly prepping them for fun time with daddy, being the 'non-daddy time filler'.

@Dontknowwhatsnext

From what you say he is in loved with the kids. It's his relationship with you he is putting behind work. Not the kids.

But to be fair, it's a bit unclear.

Yes.

Work
Kids (he would say he works this hard FOR the kids via legacy)
Me (but not me since beginning of lockdown and business went through VERY bad time).

@GoodnightGrandma

Person I wouldn’t be having sex with him. He’s having his cake and eating it. Time for separate rooms so he can see what leaving will really be like. And if there’s any chance he’s cheated you need an STI check.

Thing is the was in my bed and I like sex. That's the thing.

He's not going to be in my bed now, and so sex for the single parent of 3DC is another issue...... I feel like I might never have sex again!

@CatKittyCatCatKittyCatCat

yes, agreed.

@MamsellMarie

If you do split make sure you get a good settlement. Don't assume because he is a workaholic that he won't get a new partner and then your DCs that he is supposedly working so hard to provide for won't get the millions as it could be shared out with his second family.

Think of yourself and, presuming he is doing well in his business, get set up for a good life for yourself. Work or not whichever you want, cleaners, childminders etc

I assume he will get a new partner.

I'm very very worried about that. I don't let anyone buy family babysit, never had a childminder etc. This was one of the biggest reasons I would stay with him! To avoid a step mum. I think loads are great, but I don't know many women who would truly feel fantastic about 3 DC, and not those so young as mine.

Having to share daddy, having to see daddy live with other DC and them only 'visit' him etc etc will be more heartache. Feel I've really f'd up for my kids tbh.

Actually as I write I'm thinking 'maybe I should just call him and say COME HOME! I'll take a life living with a man who doesn't love me and hardly talks to me except when he is 3000 miles away on the phone!'.

AAARRRGGGHHH. Flip sake I've made some mistakes.

It’s not your mistake.

@3lilbirds
Haven’t we all?
Is there any way you could talk to him again? Ask him what he means when he says he doesn’t love you any more? How does he see the future?

@StartingAgain6369

OP can I ask what he is like at the weekends, does he have a break from work? do you spend any time together as a family? does he clear off and pursues hobbies etc?

I take the children to clubs and activities until around 4pm, we have a 9am start. Major, I know. But the kids love their Saturdays and they sleep well (winkies!). On Saturday he might be home when we get back and then he'd spend time with the family (kids). They are demanding and you cannot get a word in of course, but come bed time, say 8, he'll either fall asleep, or get out his laptop to work. then The Sunday will be a work day for him because he didn't work on Saturday. or the weekends days will be swapped. He will try to fit in the gym, might visit his parents (with or without kids), run errands like go to shops to buy foods he and kids like.

he's really not a bad guy. Just treats me like I'm invisible and not sensitive to my needs as a woman either like when do I get to go to the gym? I do have a cleaner now which has helped. But chores still take up shed loads of time, launder mostly, takes forever, I'm sure most of you are painfully aware of that. Cooking takes a decent time. I'm doing the mummy load. He isn't. Very simple, very common.

@LemonTT

He has said that he is leaving you because he doesn’t love you. The rest of the narrative is your own construct OP. It might have a basis to it but a lot is your own conjecture that he is choosing work over his children because he doesn’t want a 50:50 arrangement. If there is a small baby this wouldn’t be practical. If there school age children it isn’t practical.

I get you are hurt but you certainly shouldn’t be filling your kids head with a story that daddy didn’t want them and doesn’t have time for them.

You don’t sound hurt he is leaving you. But you do sound bitter that he isn’t the type of father you wanted. Even though he presumably always dedicated his time to work.

If children came along unexpectedly and unplanned then that was a risk you both took. As you rightly point out. But you both take responsibility that you didn’t agree on being parents and what that would mean.

Yes, it is my thinking. And my deduction. It's not a finger in the air guess, it's the life I've been living and the assessments I have made.

I tell my children than daddy misses them greatly and because of that he loves them even more when he cannot see them. Your assumption that I would tell them a negative story about their dad is what is plucked from thin air.

I've given no indication I tell them anything of the sort whatsoever. Im in this to build up kids with high self esteem, confidence and feelings of self worth. I won't ever even hit that daddy has rejected them. He hasn't. He has rejected me, which is very different. The only thing that isn't replaceable here is a father. A partner is (not that I wanted that).

Annoyed by your message.

@Dontknowwhatsnext

I am very blunt about him, and it sounds harsh. I think it is my style of writing. But yes, he works monster hours because he sleeps very few Maybe 4 to 5 hours a night. Not more than five.

He thinks it's important to see the kids now they are here, he says in hindsight we should have had them later, around 45 years old or ten years after he started the business so he had time to get it up and running before they came along. maybe, but I wasn't about to roll the dice on being able to have kids at 45 so to start trying then.

See? These are the things that he has said me that makes me think he loves his kids very very much, but they take away from his work time. I think he resents me for them, but I could be very wrong. He'd never tell me that even if it were true. he DID accuse me of trying for one of the children though. I wanted children so I took no precautions, he wanted unprotected sex, so he took no precautions. We got three very loved kids out of it (second one very much mutually planned). He hasn't changed in that regard, but I have opted for a permanent contraceptive method so now risk of baby 4. And well, definitely no risk now because no longer sharing beds.

@Clandestin

He could be avoiding family life, probably is. there are parts of the day to day with raising children that I'd give a miss if I could. I'm not a great fan of getting up at 1am to give another dose of Calpol, or staying up all night with the sick bucket, or changing those god awful huge poo nappies, or brushing teeth when they are toddlers, or washing hair. I could go on.

So I have empathy for him if so. Just dems the breaks. That is parenting. EOW and providing good money is just a small fraction of what is required.

@RobinPenguins

I agree, it is a rejection of me.

It is also conjuring up an idea of 'life without kids' and as I say he is happier (his own words) and 'feels less oppressed' (his own words) when he is working away AND we get along swell when he is away. Our relationship is heaps better. He doesn't love me but we get along just fine, we still have lots in common, when he's away we talk on the phone about current affiairs, family, friends, work, politics, life, children, plans.

So think family life is easier for him when he is actually not around the family. Though he loves being with the kids, he is very boundaries and will say 'you have them I'm going work' wit very short notice. So he carves out time, and that is his time.

I might not be explaining it well.

@GoodnightGrandma

I’m assuming you’re not married ? If so, do you own a percentage of the house ? Are you going to be ok financially ?

I own the house.

Have you have seriously discussed ditching his business partner and starting up truly on his own?

It seems at the moment he is doing 1,5 x times as much work covering his partners work? Then pay for a fantastic couple of staff that he can delegate more to as he trusts them?

If he went away less then you could carve out going for dinner with him a few times per week even if he then goes back to work. You may need to address having a part time nanny or paid regular top notch babysitters for this to happen. If you suggested that and he said he wasn't interested in trying to resolve things with you then I would directly ask if there is someone else tbh.

Would he speak to a life coach rather than a therapist? Or a business mentor.

Would he be happy to die young through stress to leave his DC with a father and a business that his partner will likely ruin so they don't inherit much anyway?

@RandomMess

Have you have seriously discussed ditching his business partner and starting up truly on his own?

It seems at the moment he is doing 1,5 x times as much work covering his partners work? Then pay for a fantastic couple of staff that he can delegate more to as he trusts them?

If he went away less then you could carve out going for dinner with him a few times per week even if he then goes back to work. You may need to address having a part time nanny or paid regular top notch babysitters for this to happen. If you suggested that and he said he wasn't interested in trying to resolve things with you then I would directly ask if there is someone else tbh.

Would he speak to a life coach rather than a therapist? Or a business mentor.

Would he be happy to die young through stress to leave his DC with a father and a business that his partner will likely ruin so they don't inherit much anyway?

He had a heart scare this summer, needed lots of tests etc. Blood pressure through the roof (190 over 90?).

I feel very sorry for him and still very much love the person he was before lockdown and before things went bad for us (I can't pinpoint when it started gong badly).

But I don't very much like the man he is now. He says he doesn't;'t like him much, but he doesn't know whether he can change. Says he loved me utterly, but that seems so long ago now and when he was a different person, so I'm not alone.

I'm very worried that there are more changes, that he does things I wouldn't expect. If he loved me so much, but now just doesn't, then he can change towards the children too. You know. I am very worried

Sounds like depression, burying himself in work is easier than dealing with not liking himself, making a success of that is the only thing giving him self esteem.

It's so bloody sad.

If he doesn't want to change/address it there is nothing you can do. Please suggest a business/life coach just in case he will give that a go.

I haven't read all of your posts but I think I have enough to comment.

Elon Musk said he just set up a mattress in the factory and worked 22 hours a day and slept for 2

From what I've read about Musk, he could be taking performance drugs to get through that. No idea obviously, but I've heard of a drug that the military uses to get them through very little sleep and still be tip-top in terms of mental performance. It is very dangerous when taken day after day though as it doesn't matter how much drug you take, your body still needs sleep. Don't tell your husband that in case your husband is mad enough to try and source it, but I'm just outlining how some people are able to do this. Also, have you see Musk? He doesn't look like the healthiest person. I've seen photos of him where his face looks flushed and puffy, much in the same way a lot men look if they are abusing substances or abusing their body in some way, such as poor diet.

I'm so glad that you own your house.

Your husband seems to be one of those men who thinks that the only thing a father needs to be is a provider. That, seems to marry quite well with his natural workaholic inclinations, so one justifies the other. He seems to have completely forgotten being a good husband.

However, I think there's more to it than that. It doesn't sound like he was onboard with having that many children, which is puzzling considering he knew that you weren't contraceptive but was still having sex with you anyway. Also, I wonder how fast your husband would cut back his working hours if he met another woman. It's easier to be a work a lot of hours when you feel disconnected from your wife and would rather not spend that much time being a father.

Op, to answer your first post. I know someone who sounds very much like your partner. He worked incredibly hard to build a business and anytime available was spent with the children. As they got older he looked back and regretted time worklife balance however his children (who are now adults) say he should never regret his work as the life they now have is brilliant.

Due to the dad's finances they get time with their partners, children as have no financial worries. The dad is always there now for them and has been since late teens/early adulthood.

I can't say the Dad got it wrong, it was incredibly hard on him and his wife but they seemed to pull together as had a vision of what they were building in the future, fabulous houses, holiday homes, no financial worries for their children.

I would also say 3 children under 6, plus covid would strain any relationship so just check in to see if this is temporary.

He sounds so similar to my ex - right down to the ‘legacy’ bit.

He now has the children EOW weekend and one night in the week, but that was a fight, he would rather have had them a couple of nights less.

He doesn’t cover sickness, holidays or any other emergencies. He got himself a girlfriend very quickly and her and his elderly mother do drop offs and pick ups as he “ has to work” (of course 😂)

He lied about his income to CMA and it look a long investigation to look at dividends and business assets.

He hugely resents me and having to “pay” me, was a nightmare in the divorce as “he worked head for that house” and tells anyone who will listen that he has to work 24/7 because of me.

His girlfriend, who he seems to spend very little time with, probably also believes he works as much as he does because of having to pay me maintenance and sharing equity in divorce.

I’m sure she doesn’t know that he was exactly like the before, when we had no money problems. We did have three young DC though and I think running “the business” was far easier than family life and also gave him an ego boost.

Although, my ex also used his time off to train for marathons or travel away to pursue his sports interests, and was a fan of “boys weekends away”. He needed the time out and the breaks because he “ worked hard”. Me looking after the 3 DC was just like background stuff to him, he had no idea how hard it was and insisted his life was harder. I did work but ended up leaving as I was off so much when the children were sick or had various apts as I had no-one else to have them.

So he really wasn’t present at all, it wasn’t just the business.

I’m not sure how much your DH is around when not working, so might be quite different.

Well, it sounds like your relationship is definitely over, but there is the potential there to co parent amicably. The time to get all maintenance/ time with Dad arrangements sorted is RIGHT NOW, while he’s still feeling guilty. Try and get as much maintenance as possible, because if you want your career and he’s going to be too buried in work to take on a meaningful amount of parenting, you’re going to have to buy in help.

No wonder your relationship has imploded OP. You're both working with three kids aged six and under. He's been trying to run a business during covid and working away alot.

I think you need to cut each other a lot more slack. I don't know any relationship personally that would survive in those conditions. I don't think he's actively making a choice about the children. I just think neither of you can properly see the wood for the trees in the shit storm you're both currently in