Men who choose work over family

[3lilbirds]

So my relationship of more than a decade is ending. Has ended? In a conversation last night he told me that he is not coming back to the house. This is after I told him that if he keeps treating me like I'm invisible I don't want him here. He has been badly impacted by lockdown, pressures on his business etc etc and we had a baby at the beginning of lockdown, our third.

But honestly, I think he can't handle the pressures of being a father. His own father left his family, and they were pretty destitute. He seems to think as long as his business is surviving and he can contribute money to the children he's doing well as a father (as in compared to his own, which is true, but it's a low bar), and he talks about 'legacy' for them and their future. He truly thinks if the kids hardly see him now, they'll forgive him when he can drop millions in their lap at age 25 or something.

But, I he also says 'if it wasn't for the kids, I would work all the time, no breaks, my business would be my life'.

He says lots of other stuff, but I can only sum it up as what I understand - he is choosing the business over family, and tells himself it's not selfish or ego-driven because he's doing it for the kids (Though yes, he says if it wasn't for the kids he'd be even more on it!).

He says he no longer 'loves' me, and I think at least huge part of it is that he resents me for having the kids who are the reason he cannot work all hours. I didn't;t hoodwink him with any of our kids. I wasn't using contraception, never did really since falling surprise pregnant with the first, but somehow of course it's my fault. I remember him once saying 'wow you must be fertile' - nothing about maybe him being really fertile! Some men do make me wonder sometimes....

We are now splitting and I said 'ok, so do you see this as being 50/50 with etc children' he says no, he can't, he's working. Which I knew he'd say.

I just think he has looked at it and seen that he can't do both and I;m a good mum, t he kids will be alright, he's off the build a billion dollar business, or whatever.

I'm just wondering whether anyone else has had experience of a man who put career /business over family and what happened next. I want to know what other f*&keries to expect!!!!

I can't end this without saying that he works monster hours but is very present in the children's lives. He wakes up with them in morning, breakfast, school run, then goes to the office, stays there until 12/1, comes home, does it again (no, we didn't get any time together the last 18 months since lockdown, it's been kids and business, and then the new baby, a bit overwhelming for all). But he's fun, daddy, loving daddy. I collected one of the DC from school together ad teacher mentioned that DC said they were sad because dad is away (he's away on business trip of about a month, there have been lots of those since travelled opened up again) and last night one of them was wiling tears because they missed daddy.

So now that he is not coming home from this trip I'm just so goddamn sad for them. They have huge expectations of seeing daddy everyday. And that will now be EOW when he's in the country, and when he isn't they will now have to know he's not coming home.

I despair for them. I am so so so distraught. My kids face when I collected them from school today was so sad, they miss their dad so much. But it just won't work. Business, and work has killed our relationship. He won't get therapy to talk about any of these issues mentioned above, says he can't face it, can't face what person it might be apparent he has become.

Running this business has changed him so much, he's really not the man he was or whom `I chose to have children with.

It's all so aaarrrggghhhh. And I just want to have ideas about what is on the horizon for the children.

We grew up very poor. I always vowed that if I had children I would want to do my utmost to give them a different start in life to what I had. Yes I was going to work hard towards my career so I could do that, I did build a career but no children for me in the end, but that is besides the point.

I can understand where your husband is coming from, you say he would work harder if there were no children, but that is just words, best to consider he aural situation not a hypothetical. It is no fun being brought up in poverty and truly, I would have preferred at least one of my parents had a career or worked hard and yes at the expense of seeing less of them. I thought that then and I think that now decades later.

You and your husband are obviously incompatible and sounds like you are dealing with that. He doesn’t sound like a bad father, he makes some time for them and he provides for them. As such, I would let him manage his relationship with his children.

I think you should reflect on YOUR choices here, to have three DC with a workaholic who wasn’t taking well to fatherhood.

A key risk now is that your ex sees much, much less of the DC and this is bad for their mental health and wellbeing.

As part of progressing divorce, I would seek urgent mediation to seek to agree how much time you will each have the DC, and set out your concerns about this risk.

Sounds like there’s no hope for your relationship with him, so would focus primarily on appealing to him to curtail travel and working hours in order to parent his DC for X% of the time.

Would also tell the school about the situation - relationship breakup - as they can then try to support your school age DC.

Some men have had it instilled in them that they need to provide financially at all costs, especially those of an older generation, they feel an immense pressure to work as hard as they can and still feel what they provide for their family is inadequate.

Thatis not to say that there are not those who stay at work late because they hate bedtime with children, that their marriage is already over and work is a convenient way of avoiding that, that they might be screwed up in other ways. However as with almost all human interaction it is usually more complicated than one simple factor.

What really matters now IMO is whether, now he’s getting divorced and has decided to move out and work away for weeks at a time, he will agree sensible parenting/residency arrangements for the DC and make time to parent them during his % of the DCs’ time.

Children will always miss an absent parent. Children are biologically primed to love their parents. The absence of either parent whether that be emotional or physical absence is keenly felt by children. What you are describing is by any standards an emotionally (and physically) absent husband and father and no money can or will make up for the grief you and your children are feeling over that loss in your/their lives. That loss cannot be mitigated by money, it isn’t being for you in your relationship, it won’t be for your children in theirs.

My DH had a great job and put it before us, although he’d disagree.
He’d often do extra shifts because they were ‘desperate’. They were always ‘desperate’. He ended up with a big tax bill due to all these extra shifts, and took out a loan to pay them off 🙄
I became very resentful about it, and it’s one of the reasons we are on the verge of splitting now.

Yu said relationship, not marriage?. I think you were unreasonable to have 3 children with a man you are not married to. You may find he may not be as financially responsible for you once you seperate. You have really dug yourself into a hole here. Sorry

@Tillysfad

It does seem like a very sudden break when he has actually been very present, I'm not sure if you realise how much he has actually done to be honest. It might be that doing that level of hands on parenting really was incompatible with running a start up and you needed different childcare and he's reacting to not being able to juggle everything. I agree it does sound like he's coming out with nonsense and firing in stupid directions. But this is such an unfortunate way to do this. Deciding he's not coming home is the worst of all possible approaches from your children's perspective. For their sake can you not have him back and phase his routine out with the children knowing he will definitely do x and y on set days which will continue when he's moved out, so they gave a new normal and some continuity. If he just doesn't return now they will assume that the future is just this endless wasteland of him being far too suddenly gone. It's too like a bereavement. Surely whatever you're arguing about can be shelved now and a business like plan set up with childcare potentially from his new home or him doing regular pick ups still. Eow is not enough and I think he's speaking rashly and cruelty probably in retaliation.

Hi,

I haven't thrown him out. It is not sudden from a relationship perspective, it is sudden from a kiddy/daddy perspective.

I could always say to him that anything goes, stick around, let's do this for the children, but I don't believe that is a good thing for the children.

Even during lockdown he went to the office everyday. Most days he did 2 or so hours with them (homeschooling etc). He now does the school run., so they see him from 7 to 9 each morning. He goes away on business a lot (4 weeks, 3 weeks, 2 weeks). Lockdown has increased children's expectations of seeing those parents who spent lots of lockdown with their children. They saw him more than usual. This morning run is more like usual.

He can't do pick ups as working.

I don't lack compassion for him. He left his very well paying city job to do this 4 years ago. I've been that supportive partner. At the moment all there is, is him working, me also working and being with kids. He has no capacity for our relationship and as a consequence it suffered.

When he is in the home we still sleep in the same bed, have sex etc. But during waking hours he's just very distant, business is constantly on his mind, and I am very lonely. I have friends, a job, family, the beautiful cool children whom I love to spend time with, but still spending every evening alone once the children are in bed, me just working more, or getting on with something etc is not what I signed up for. He treats me ok now, but there were times over lockdown he was just mean. The business and stress of it etc has really changed him and I have empathy for him.

He is present at home with them, but absent with me. So sure, he could come back, but there would be no progress. He says he needs to break the cycle or routine, and moving out might help him to get clarity. In reality he needs to reorder his priorities, but that is all bound up in his values, his sense of self etc. It can be done, but it takes a lot of work, and he is fearful of therapy. He is the kind of man who doesn't cry, tries not to show emotion, thinks the head must rule heart etc.

He might very well have someone else. Who knows. Even if he did, that's not the problem, I think., so a red herring.

It sounds like you have multiple children and because of his own upbringing one of his main driving forces is to provide for them financially and make sure they never have to experience deprivation. He might be does seem to have not been there as a husband in sacrifice of work, which is not Ok, but it doesn't sound like he's been a bad Dad. He's giving his kids and his work everything. I've never met anyone with a new baby who wanted a 50:50 arrangement but if that is what you want then would he really not be happy to try and find a way to manage that if you were also building a career? Because if it's just a practical decision based on one of you being a SAHP and the other the soul provider for the family, then 50:50 doesn't seem logical at all. Is he still planning to support you well financially? Does he still want to be present in their lives but just struggling with the demands of his business? Or does he not want contact etc? It sounds to me like he does want to spend time with them, just to no longer do that in the family home which is part of him leaving his wife not his kids. Time will tell and there are a lot of men who are crappy fathers and use a break up as an excuse to opt out of parenting and into being a single person again, and I really hope that's not the case. But that doesn't seem to me the person you are describing. He doesn't seem to be motivated by financial success so much as by his hope to give his child a better life than he had. It is hard to get that balance right.

Person I wouldn’t be having sex with him. He’s having his cake and eating it.
Time for separate rooms so he can see what leaving will really be like.
And if there’s any chance he’s cheated you need an STI check.

From what you say he is in loved with the kids. It's his relationship with you he is putting behind work. Not the kids.

But to be fair, it's a bit unclear.

I think this is a bit unfair actually. It sounds from the hours you describe that he's actually really present in your lives but perhaps not in yours as much as you'd expected.

I think it's reasonable for someone to be ambitious and work hard on their career, it sets a good example to the kids. I'm a woman and I go on work trips for a week or so at a time and of course the kids miss me (I hope so) but I'll be back soon.

It sounds like your marriage is over though, I'm sorry for you

@Aprilx

We grew up very poor. I always vowed that if I had children I would want to do my utmost to give them a different start in life to what I had. Yes I was going to work hard towards my career so I could do that, I did build a career but no children for me in the end, but that is besides the point.

I can understand where your husband is coming from, you say he would work harder if there were no children, but that is just words, best to consider he aural situation not a hypothetical. It is no fun being brought up in poverty and truly, I would have preferred at least one of my parents had a career or worked hard and yes at the expense of seeing less of them. I thought that then and I think that now decades later.

You and your husband are obviously incompatible and sounds like you are dealing with that. He doesn’t sound like a bad father, he makes some time for them and he provides for them. As such, I would let him manage his relationship with his children.

This is an interesting point.

We get along very well when he is away, actually. Good phone calls, even crack jokes, talk about our days etc, much like it used to be. When he is back, it is very very different. London is tricky, very fast paced, lots of pressures here. But I feel the family obligations really get to him and he can't work as hard as he wants to, as hard as he does when he is away.

When he is away his day goes something like this:

5.30 up
6am gym
8am office / work.
8.30 am - 15 minute chat with kids on phone on their way too school.
day - work work work
8pm - eat something, call kids on phone to say good for 15 minutes
8.30 pm work work
10 - call partner for catch up and talk about kids day (half hour)
11.30 - sleep

Here it is
6.30 - am up with kids
9am- drop to school
9.30 am - set off to work
Day -work work work, but as he is in the office he will deal with employee issues etc, have more meetings that might not actually be fee-earning etc
1am home

No time to fit in gym, no breather space etc. NO TIME with partner at all.

I agree we are incompatible now, Family important to both of us, but in very different ways. To be fair our eldest is 6. We've been together double that time. He didn't know how hard parenthood would be, none of us did. It's bloody hard. He can't do that and his business. he's Ade a choice.

Now I have the kids all the time when he is away ( a LOT) and as EOW is just about to start, I don't know what to tell you all, but I am not going to give up weekend time with my children just to do the hard slog f weekdays with homework, clubs, my working week, school runs, bed times, brushing teeth, all the daily house chores etc, just package them off pretty and clean to him every weekend he is here. I want that time to go to the park, visit my family with them, do fun things, and I put it to him. that he could see them in the day time after school and he said he can't do it, he is working. So I don't see another model other than EOW that will work. Unless I give up weekends and just to the dogged parenting thing. That's not why I had kids, that's being a nanny, not a mum.

@Tillysfad

I suspect he said if it wasn't for the kids he'd work continually in an effort to point out how much time he was carving out for them. Was it defensive? It just doesn't add up.

No, he means if it was not for the kids the would work ALL the time on. the business.

He told me about Elon Musk in the say he was trying to shop Tesla to Apple, how hard it was, Tesla was about to fail and Elon Musk said he just set up a mattress in the factory and worked 22 hours a day and slept for 2. He wishes he could do that.

@LemonTT

He has said that he is leaving you because he doesn’t love you. The rest of the narrative is your own construct OP. It might have a basis to it but a lot is your own conjecture that he is choosing work over his children because he doesn’t want a 50:50 arrangement. If there is a small baby this wouldn’t be practical. If there school age children it isn’t practical.

I get you are hurt but you certainly shouldn’t be filling your kids head with a story that daddy didn’t want them and doesn’t have time for them.

You don’t sound hurt he is leaving you. But you do sound bitter that he isn’t the type of father you wanted. Even though he presumably always dedicated his time to work.

If children came along unexpectedly and unplanned then that was a risk you both took. As you rightly point out. But you both take responsibility that you didn’t agree on being parents and what that would mean.

Yes I agree with this. He sounds like he is rejecting you in quite blunt terms and that’s hurtful, but being a workaholic and rejecting his children doesn’t really square with a father who appears to do the morning routine and all school runs? Saying if it wasn’t for the kids he’d work all hours is a rejection of you and your relationship rather than the kids and his relationship with them.

By the sounds of it he doesnt have time for another woman! I think it is difficult when DC are young and I feel for you .My friend was in a similar position with her boys as her DH worked long hours and was away a lot.Your DH sounds like a workaholic .Some men feel their role as Provider very strongly.If his own father left them destitute as kids ,then no wonder he is this way.If Divorce is the only way forward then thats fine ,however you may find yourself just as lonely and not in the same position financially . Maybe see if he will at least go to Arbitration woth you .He may wake up and see what hes got to lose then .

OP, sorry you’re going through this but I’m a bit confused on how much he’s working is affecting this, as apposed to you asking him to leave and him saying he doesn’t love you anymore, and I know that must be painful.

I can't end this without saying that he works monster hours but is very present in the children's lives. He wakes up with them in morning, breakfast, school run, then goes to the office, stays there until 12/1, comes home, does it again

If he’s up doing breakfast with the kids everyday, and doing the morning school run he is participating in their lives.

Do you mean he comes home from work after midnight but then gets up again with them in the morning?

I don’t think it’s fair to say he’s not being a parent to them if so?

Lockdown has been tough on everyone, and running your own business during all this when you have a family to be responsible financially for is an added layer.

I think you need to talk to him more about why he’s leaving because I don’t think the reasoning you’re giving matches with what he’s doing for the kids?

@tiggerwhocamefortea

Presumably him working so much also affords you a lifestyle you wouldn't have normally? Do you work? I feel a bit sorry for him really - plenty of parents work hard to build businesses that leave some kind of legacy for their kids and they can get a bit lost in it - they don't see it as a negative and taking time away from them - although you've also said he is "present" when he's home?

What do you actually want? Him to work less? Because are you prepared for what that might entail? Ie you working more/at all?

He does have more money than me, but we are not legally married. So I maintained a lifestyle that I could keep alone in case he was not around for any reason. So him leaving doesn't change that much. I have a decent annual income in a highly skilled high demand job, and I can work my hours around children. In that sense I am fortunate.

I am prepared, I honestly believe women always should be wherever possible. Relationship breakdown is so common, sadly.

I’m assuming you’re not married ?
If so, do you own a percentage of the house ? Are you going to be ok financially ?

Ok, you’ve answered that !

@Rainbowqueeen

I’d tell him that it’s not good enough to just say he can’t do 50-50 because he has to work. What about you? How are you expected to work? It sounds like he has his own business so it will be very easy for him to avoid paying maintenance or minimise it. I’d lawyer up fast and get the financials sorted fast while he feels guilty. I’d also work out a plan for my life which involves working. Even if not now then in a year or so and have the kids living arrangements fit around that. How dare he say his work is more important than you also having a career. If you are not his wife he doesn’t get to try and make plans around you supporting his career by having the kids all the time. He needs to make his own arrangements on the basis that you also need to earn money. Focus on what you need to do for the best future for you and the DC

Yes, I have had all of these thoughts. I was starting my own business coming back from this maternity leave. He is well aware that I can hardly get to it now that he's away on business so much. He is also well aware that his departure means it likely won't happen.

He tells me no to worry and that he'll never abandon my financially, I was there at the beginning and he will always appreciate that so would never leave me high and dry. He also made me promises that he would never leave me and the kids, like his father didn't, that he is a family man etc etc, so I do wonder whether he expects me to have faith in that. I have my own ISA, pension, JISAa JSIPPS for kids, my own income, my own property. It might be that I am so level headed and sorted that he finds it so easy to leave. he knows his kids are set with me, I'm that 'my kids are everything' hard work ethic sensible, out kids first mum.

He does now get to work all he wants, have a Friday night, meet a younger prettier version (after three kids I'm good for three kids, but no one would say I'm the sexiest in the club, well, unless they love boobs that have done 3 lots of breastfeeding for a year, and a slight tummy apron! My face is still spot on though!)

@wheretonow123

Do you mind me asking what is his business? I was thinking that if it is successful then he could agree to reduce his own workload by taking on an employee / partner. That could have a huge effect on your relationship but would probably mean less profit for him.

He must remember that he may not always be able to work / travel abroad and any illness he may get in the future could be the death knell for the business if he is a one man band. Many companies do not hire single entity contractors unless really niche.

Best of luck - I hope that you can resolve this if its not too late.

He has a partner. Part of problem is partner is shit and mostly chasing women. Long story.

He has said me that he'll work til he dies but on his deathbed he'll say 'carry on suckers!' he has also said he'd like to retire early, so lord knows.

@Lanareyrey

Lots of good advice here. As someone who is in a similar position, it’s a lot of hard work. My husband works in a very important job. It’s not been easy over the years especially when the children were babies but we have come through it now.

I am very appreciative of how hard he works because a lot men wouldn’t do this or be as hands on with the kids and both at the same time.Trying to balance their work is hard, especially if they want to progress.

I understand you feel resentful and I have to at times, but I tell you now being a single mother is a whole different ball game and this is when it’s going to get unbelievably hard for you.

It sounds like his mind is made up now unfortunately, so all I can do is wish you the best.

Oh yes. I was along for the ride until lockdown happened and the stresses really made him withdraw. he then said he felt no more love for me (and actually said he feels little joy in anything - I have queried depression with him and really encouraged therapy, but as I say he is resistant. he says he can't speak about his feelings, feels like a chore after a hard days work).

so yes, it has not worked out for us. Sometimes I wonder whether I was too much that supportive partner and should have put my foot down years back and said 'this will ruin us'. But I didn't, I promised I'd support him and his efforts, and `I did. Now my kids will suffer.

By the way, if he hadn't changed his feelings about me I'd still be there ploughing along with him. I thought we were a team.

We do not really argue, we have conversations that are hard, but it means the children haven't seen us fight etc and they are very young, it will surprise them. There expectations are that mum and dad will be together etc and not meeting this expectation will cause them heartache, FFS.

@Dontbekatty

Sorry this is happening to you op. I also think, like a previous poster, that he’s spinning you a line. I’ve seen it with work colleagues and my previous partner was just like your husband. A lot of (in particular) men value themselves according to their work - not how good a husband or father they are - but purely how they are in work. This is often dressed up as ‘being a good provider’ but really gets them out of the stuff they don’t really want to be doing. It’s an excuse. Coupled with the drive required to run their own business that can sometimes morph into ego and a dick-swinging mentality, there’s no time or inclination for anything else. Work is simply the most important thing to this kind of man. Simple as. He may/may not regret putting work first in the future. He’s clearly not aware how easy it is to breed resentment in your offspring. Most likely, his kids will learn to expect the crumbs of his attention. It seems he’s been present up to now though. That part of your post was a little confusing. Is he participating in family life and pissed off about it? How long has your relationship been suffering for? Does he have time for hobbies? In other words, are you way down the list of priorities?

It is very confusing. I'm confused. He spends those 2 hours with them on a weekday morning. Which I think is good quality time. On the weekend he will see them on Saturday afternoons or he'll work all Saturday and see them on Sunday (or vice versa). He'll take them to the park, or family or something.So they get 2 hours a day and then much of one of the weekend days.

But he is happier when he is not in London, and is working abroad. He says so himself. he puts is down toilets of things other than actually family life and juggling it all is hard. It could be that he's happier not seeing my ugly mug, but like I say, we get on pretty well when we just speak on the phone. It's like when he is here he resents having a family within touching distance but not fully participating because he is working so much, and the time he does get her zooms in on the children, so his relationship has suffered. We speak far far less when he is here compared when he is away, though I see his face more when he is here, and we probably are intimate a few times a week, 2 or 3.

Family life (partner and kids) and business he can't do. When he's away he can because the time element is much less, he can be way more efficient with it . When he is here he has kid time and work time, no partner time and as a consequence his feelings have faded.

So I could just live with a man who I have sex with sometimes, but not much else so. that the children wake up to their father, yes. The is one of many options, but I don't like it much. It'll make for a very lonely life for me, and I'm only 40.