How can I make him understand the importance of honesty?

[7917Kj]

Looking for some advice and had some really beneficially help before so keen to hear opinions. I am really struggling to get my husband to understand I need honesty in a relationship. I seem to uncover lie after lie some trivial, some pretty big and have an impact on our lives. My husbands reaction is to continue to lie even when faced with evidence or occasionally say he has lied because he couldn’t be arsed to deal with my reaction to whatever it was. Today was a new one where he tried to convince me I was already aware and had some how forgotten!! In the past there have been times when I have lost it over the bigger lies but not actually because of the issue that was being lied about but because I have found out rather than being told. I have taken his feedback on board and we have had talks where we have agreed I promise not to judge or overreact and he promises to just be open and transparent with whatever has happened. Then it just happens again and he says if I don’t trust him we are over! I am really at a loss I can’t live like this and I don’t see why I should have to, is it worth a last ditch conversation to say get everything out on the table and draw a line moving forward or am I wasting my time and delaying the inevitable?

[7917Kj]

@category12

You mention you have a good memory so can stay on top of this, which must be exhausting and make you doubt yourself. What if you start suffering memory loss in later years, and he doesn't? He will make your life absolute hell. You won't know if you're coming or going. I would be bearing that in mind.

Also, it wears away at you, being lied to and being gas-lighted - you lose confidence in your own perceptions. And you should be a team as a couple, not treated like the enemy to be evaded and deceived.

In retrospect, I do think my ex used to get a thrill out of "getting one over on me", it wasn't that he was "afraid" of how I would react or that he was trying to protect me or whatever bullshit he used to say about it, he actually got off on it.

Yes there is definitely an element of this too last month he told me he was going away with work I had the audacity to ask where and when and he said he had no clue and would tell me when he did, turns out meetings, travel, hotels had all been booked and confirmed weeks before... it’s just plain odd lying for the sake of lying and withholding information till the day before he has to tell me

[Andrewthecharminbumwiper]

His lack of empathy is really worrying too. He has lied and lied, yet has to control and minimise your response and make you not to judge his behaviour, at least outwardly as he finds consequences difficult to deal with? Well, what about you finding his lies difficult? I'm not sure this man has any understanding of the problem or its impact, and without that, there is no solution. I fear this is bigger than you, OP. If you were to leave, what is stopping you from affording it? Would you need to find a job, increase your hours, move to a cheaper area? Practicalities can all be solved.

[Andrewthecharminbumwiper]

Cross post but again, lack of empathy. Of course you would want to know his whereabouts, and the trip dates so you could plan ahead for stuff. This is all normal.

So, he's found a source of power in this secrecy.

[GoodnightGrandma]

I have a DH who tells lies about stupid things, often it’s because he knows I’ll go mad, but he still wants to do it.
Unfortunately you will eventually feel resentful, and that will be the end. The resentment and frustration will eat away at you.

[Anordinarymum]

He tells you lies because he does not value you at all. he thinks you are of no consequence in his life so he will lie rather than engage with you.

He tells you nothing and then when you discover a small part of it he lies. He does not want you included in anything. He thinks you are not worth a jot.

I think he has no respect or love for you tbh

[GoodnightGrandma]

You need to get your house put into two halves, so that you own one half and him the other. Can’t remember what it is called, but someone on here will know.
That way your half of the house cannot be taken to pay off his loans.
You need to protect yourself and your children financially.
Have your wage paid into your own bank account. Unfortunately I had to do this to protect me,

[7917Kj]

Well his answer is don’t ask and if you do accept the answer. Problem is I’m not stupid I sometimes really wish I was

[GoodnightGrandma]

Gosh, he’s an unpleasant man to the woman he is supposed to love, the mother of his children.

[MuffinsAreJustCakesAtBreakfast]

I had a bf when I was 17 who would lie and then say "see!! you're upset and we're now arguing, that's why I lied!"

He couldn't wrap his immature teenage brain around the fact that I am annoyed because you lied, not what you lied about.

He was a teenager, though so perhaps we can cut him slack.

Your husband however, is a fully grown man.

Does he lie to anyone and everyone in his job/career or is it just you?

[category12]

You need to sort out getting independent, disengage and leave him.

[CockSpadget]

You can't lead a happy life like this, and neither can your children. You will be forever wondering what he's lied about that you haven't discovered yet (or if you ever will). He won't stop lying, (or gaslighting) people with this trait never do, it's hardwired in them.
When you think about your future with him, how does it look?
Time to make plans to leave IMO.

[Andrewthecharminbumwiper]

That is so controlling. Asking and answering questions is such a huge part of communication! And he wants you to stop doing that.

[7917Kj]

In terms of the financial situation he has always been bad with money this came to light very early on in the relationship when we had separate finances and we take in turns to buy the weekly shop and he consistently had an empty account. We rectified this by him paying a set amount into my account and each month covering his proportion of the bills/rent/groceries and everything else was his to do what he wanted with. I manage all our household bills for this reason so everything is always paid and on time so he can’t really mess that up. We both used to have much lower paid jobs (not bad but we live in London so costs are high) and got into debt early on in our marriage we now have better paid jobs and I earn a fair bit more than him but in answer to your question about why I couldn’t financially leave my wages if left would just cover rent, bills, food and debt payments. I would have zero money left for anything else and no fall back of something broke or went wrong. Rent in London is extremely high and whilst I would move further out I don’t drive and travel into London (for my job) would bring the costs back up to staying where we are and without the massive commute. I work in quite a high profile role and get paid well for it I’ve looked into evening and weekend jobs to top up my salary more and get things paid off quicker but finding a full time job that pays more is quite unlikely

[GreyCarpet]

He isn't bothered by the lies because he knows the truth and it suits him to lie to you.

His response to saying you don't trust him is laughable. Why would you trust someone who so frequently and openly lies to you? You'd be an idiot to do so!

I have an ex who lied constantly. I spent years trying to 'help him understand' why it was damaging to the relationship.

But it as pointless. He had his own deep seated reasons for lying that it, eventually and long after me, took him therapy to begin to address.

Ultimately, it damaged everything. I gave up talking to him about anything but the most trivial stuff (eg want to have for dinner or watch on TV) because there was no point. It was a waste of time because nothing he said was the truth.

We stopped having sex because the emotional connection was lost as a result of the above and I'm not going to allow someone access to my body if I can't trust them.

It's utterly pointless. And you won't be able to change it.

[ProudAlly]

You need to get out. I've been in your shoes with a pathological liar. Thankfully I'm out of it now but I know that all those years were a sham, I have no idea what was real and what wasn't. I now question every little thing he told me and I have no idea who he really was. I gave up the best years of my life to lies. Don't be me.

[NewlyGranny]

You're being lied to and gaslighted, aren't you? Then he demands your trust when he's proved over and over that he isn't trustworthy - what does he expect you to do, actually? Ignore the evidence of your eyes and ears and play-act that you believe him? Why would any sane adult do that?

I don't imagine he will change, especially as he clearly doesn't want to and obviously sees no need to. There's a total contempt for you, your children, your marriage and your financial stability in this.

Where is the money going, do you think? Could he be gambling? Is there a second household set up and being supported somewhere? You need to get your income separated and banking secure, and the house ownership divided so his creditors cannot seize your assets.

Would you really be worse off without him? What has helping him pay down his debts cost you? He would still have to support his children and pay his half of the mortgage, so things might not crash financially if you were to separate.

As for the trust demand, have you tried asking him how he thinks his secrecy and lies have affected your trust in and respect for him? Both must be in tatters right now.

[WickedWitchOfTheTrent]

it just happens again and he says if I don’t trust him we are over!

So he's basically saying here 'put up or shut up'

He lies
He spends family money and gets into debt
He gaslights you

And he's now saying if you like it 'fuck off'

I know you've said you love him, but how much more are you willing to put up with. This is who he is, believe him.

[TeeBee]

OP, I had a boyfriend like this. I turned myself in knots trying to understand why he would constantly lie. There was absolutely no reason to at all most the time. It really was pathological. He lied about ridiculous things...even down to battling over parking fines and telling them all sorts of crap just to avoid a fine he could easily pay (and accepted was his fault). Lying seemed like a sport to him and he almost enjoyed deceiving people. When I would confront him and ask why he lied, he looked totally baffled himself. I came to realise that he wasn't going to change, it was a part of him. And ultimately a part I couldn't live with because of the effect it had on me. I didn't want to be with someone I couldn't trust and who always made me feel as though I needed to monitor what he was doing...so I ended it. A couple of years down the line, I can see the negative impact that part of him had on me. I feel so much more settled and relaxed now I'm not living with that.

[holrosea]

OP, I clicked on this thead expecting an early realtionship, few months in, he isn't honest with me type thread, and my response was going to be that you cannot make someone understand that honesty if important if they don't think so themselves.

Having read your posts, my response remains the same, except that your husband has repeatedly and deliberately demonstrated that he does not give a single fig about being honest with you. This is not new information to you.

Either you accept that he constantly lies to you and that it drives you to distraction, and you swallow it all down forever, or you leave.

Either your kids learn that honesty is just a silly little thing that mummy wants but really isn't that important, because look! Daddy gets away with it all the time, silly mummy. Or you show them that there are consequences for dishonesty.

And the fact that he is taking out loans and lying about it or, even worse, gaslighting you while fucking family finances, is the nail in the coffin for me.

[category12]

@7917Kj

In terms of the financial situation he has always been bad with money this came to light very early on in the relationship when we had separate finances and we take in turns to buy the weekly shop and he consistently had an empty account. We rectified this by him paying a set amount into my account and each month covering his proportion of the bills/rent/groceries and everything else was his to do what he wanted with. I manage all our household bills for this reason so everything is always paid and on time so he can’t really mess that up. We both used to have much lower paid jobs (not bad but we live in London so costs are high) and got into debt early on in our marriage we now have better paid jobs and I earn a fair bit more than him but in answer to your question about why I couldn’t financially leave my wages if left would just cover rent, bills, food and debt payments. I would have zero money left for anything else and no fall back of something broke or went wrong. Rent in London is extremely high and whilst I would move further out I don’t drive and travel into London (for my job) would bring the costs back up to staying where we are and without the massive commute. I work in quite a high profile role and get paid well for it I’ve looked into evening and weekend jobs to top up my salary more and get things paid off quicker but finding a full time job that pays more is quite unlikely

But the thing is, he's hiding debts from you - there could be more and there almost certainly will be more to come in the future - you can't trust him. While you're entwined with him, you'll constantly be dealing with his sabotage.

It would be worth talking to an expert about your debt and seeing if you could manage it differently to free up more of your income.

[MuffinsAreJustCakesAtBreakfast]

@TeeBee "Lying seemed like a sport to him and he almost enjoyed deceiving people. "


Woooooah. That's very insightful. It is just worth reiterating. If anyone wants to understand liars then read this and re-read it.

[TeeBee]

OP, I found this very useful for understanding pathological liars.
www.medicinenet.com/pathological_liar_vs_a_compulsive_liar/article.htm

I found it interesting to read that it is a coping mechanism developed by them at a young age and that they hold no value with truth. That was definitely the experience I had. There really is nothing YOU can do to change him, you can only protect yourself from it.

[moofolk]

Kick him out

[HollowTalk]

The problem is that if he lies about financial matters and is a spendthrift who's happy to run up debts, then you will get poorer and poorer.

Have you looked at Entitled To to see whether there are any benefits you could claim?

His lying sounds out of control if he isn't even telling you information about where he's going with work. What is up with him?!

[7917Kj]

He told me where he was going but when he was good and ready, I asked what he was doing at work the next week he said a site visit at X location which is the opposite end of the country so asked if he was staying over and he said he didn’t know the date of the visit or time etc so couldn’t tell me, as I said it then transpired the tickets had been booked weeks before so A) I think he should voluntarily tell me you are going away when you know are and B) when I ask you when your going and for long you should just say if you know not pretend you don’t and tell me the day before