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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

DH has no friends and following me round the house

288 replies

DotDashDottyDashy · 11/10/2021 16:23

My husband dropped his friends years ago and he has nothing to do with his family. He now works at home since the pandemic and his employer has made this a permanent thing. I already worked at home because I freelance. He goes to a book club once a month, but apart from that I am literally never alone in the house. He doesn't count the book-club members as friends and he will never stay for a drink after they've discussed the book as the rest of them do. I have lots of friends and interests that take me out of the house, but sometimes I'd just like some time in the house on my own without hearing his ever-there presence - the TV, his stomping and sighing.

If I close a door behind me (e.g. if I'm reading in the snug or in the bath, I close the door so I can't hear the TV that he has on all the time, or if I'm in my office I keep the door closed so I can't hear him on his work calls), he will always, without fail, find a reason to come into the room, and then leave the door open on his way back out. If I ask him to close the door behind him, he always frowns and sighs very loudly and exaggeratedly. I find this so unpleasant that I've stopped asking him to close the door and I wait until he's gone, then quietly close it myself. He wants to watch TV every night, whereas I don't - sometimes I want to read or do some drawing or something, but if I say this, he always asks why can't I do it in the same room as him (the reason is because the TV is distracting, but also I just want some time on my own as well sometimes) or he'll pull a 'jokey' sulky pouty face and say sarcastically 'oh that's nice'. Or, he'll give it half an hour, then come and join me in whatever room I'm in, sit next to me, and scroll through his phone.

He cares very deeply about furniture, decor and clothes. He watches what I do in the house and corrects things I do. For example, if I put the box of teabags on the kitchen counter, he'll lift it up to put a protective mat under it. Or he'll pretend he's admiring the knife I'm using and come to look at it (when in reality I know it's because he wants to make sure none of the veg I'm chopping have fallen off the chopping board onto the worktop). If he thinks one of us might have damaged something, he goes nuts, even if he can't see any damage with his naked eye, so he'll do things like get a torch to inspect it. I never do things to his standards - I apparently do gardening wrong, cleaning wrong, bedmaking wrong, washing wrong.

He doesn't like us using things in case we damage them, so the kitchen worktops are covered in lots of protective mats (so we can hardly see any of the worktop now) and the settees are covered in protective throws. And he gets really tense when we have visitors in case they damage something.

If I try discussing anything with him, he either denies whatever I say (even stupid things that are obviously true - it's his default position to just deny anything I say. I could point out his grey hair and he'd deny it's grey), or he gets really defensive, or more often than not he just walks away and refuses to discuss anything with me, going completely silent on me. He literally never gets riled or worked up. He likes to ignore me when I ask something of him, and if I repeat myself, he'll just say really dismissively and calmly, "yeah I heard you", but then he won't comment any further. He also makes things up about me. For example, he was sorting out our important documents and I asked him to leave mine alone and I would sort them myself, and he told me that I had lost my driving licence once so I shouldn't do the sorting and should let him do it. I know for a fact that I've never lost my driving licence, but he was so adamant that I started believing him. He could tell me I'm spelling my name wrong and he'd be so believable that I'd doubt how my own name is spelt.

I'm 20 years into this marriage, and now I'm perimenopausal, and suddenly I'm just drained by it. We're currently not talking to each other at all after he was snappy with me on Saturday all day but wouldn't tell me what the issue was. He does that a lot - snapping and frowning at me, but if I ask him what's wrong he says "nothing" every single time. I really fucking hate the silent treatment - I think it's a pathetic game and really manipulative, but I can't be arsed trying to engage with him anymore, so I'm just not bothering. I know I'm in the wrong not talking to him, but I'm exhausted by him and actually it's quite nice not having to talk to him and listen to him go on about how his work colleagues have wronged him this week.

OP posts:
Silenceisgolden20 · 12/10/2021 08:00

The following ypu around and not giving you space is an abusers tactic. It's so you can't think straight and get brain fog because that's how he wants you. He doesn't want you to have space and think for yourself because you might work out what an abusive dick he is. He keeps you like this on purpose. He sees it as owning you.

ILoveJamaica · 12/10/2021 08:37

@DotDashDottyDashy sounds to me you are well and truly sick to the back teeth of his ways and can no longer tolerate him and his ways - either that or you are extremely hormonal!!!

Never blame a woman's hormones for a man being a bellend.

SortingItOut · 12/10/2021 08:44

I agree with @EarthSight's post and want to add a bit more.

Will I feel empty and a lack of love?

To start off with you may feel empty but it will soon pass. Its hard to imagine you'll miss your husbands love when it appears he does nothing to show you love.
It is your job not to feel empty and lacking in love, ideally you will build such a great life without him that all your needs are met by yourself (and possibly your friends)

I left my husband 3.5yrs ago having been emotionally abused for years and honestly it's the best thing I did, my life is pretty great and I'm the one who has made it great.

Also what will I do on Christmas day?

Anything you want.
Last year was my first Xmas without my DD (18) or my ex husband - we had originally agreed to keep doing Xmas together but after he stalked and harrassed me we are no longer on speaking terms.
DD went to her dads as she wanted Boxing Day with me and my family (didn't happen due to lockdown).
I was at home with my 24yr old son who spends his spare time gaming.
I was so fed up of cooking a roast dinner every year since the year dot we agreed to have Indian so on Xmas Eve I brought the Indian and reheated it on Xmas Day. I spent the day walking the dogs, pottering about, watched a bit of TV and generally did nothing - it was the best Xmas Day for years.
If I was going to be on my own I had invitations to go to friends.

You can make Xmas Day anything you want it to be.

Also what about going on holiday?

You either go with friends, go on your own or find holidays for single travellers.
Lots of people in relationships do single traveller holidays as their partners don't go abroad etc

I haven't holidayed since I split from my exhusband as I have animals but I do go out for the day to places on my own, I've done music events on my own. Its very liberating.

Also my parents are elderly and my dad has dementia. What if they deteriorate further? I don't get paid if I take time off to help them, and I'll have no one to emotionally support me through watching my dad go through a horrible disease like dementia or hug me when he gets worse

I think someone else mentioned unemployment cover but also that's whst savings are for.
If you leave your marriage and get 50/50 it would be a good idea not to overstretch yourself on a new property so you can build up savings.
You can have a hug at the end of a long day from friends. I'm not sure how supportive your husband would be now anyway.

What if I get seriously ill - cancer or dementia or something - myself? How will I earn money? Who will look after me? What if I die on my own in my house and no one finds me for days or weeks because I don't have children or family?

If you get seriously ill your friends will rally round or you will organise your own care. Unemployment insurance would help, so would savings and there are some benefits which are not means tested.

I joke to my kids that I'll be dead for ages before they notice as they're quite self absorbed. I think the dogs would notice first as they'll miss their walk.

Your friends would notice especially if you are in regular contact with them.
If you're that worried why not make an agreement with a friend to message every morning by 10 and if you don't then she can organise a welfare check.

All these concerns are valid and are what alot of people worry about when they think of splitting up.

There is no rush to make a decision but you cannot keep living like this.

I mean what damage could a cardboard box of tea bags do to a worktop, this is no way to live.

ILoveJamaica · 12/10/2021 08:53

PENSION. Does he have one? You will be entitled to half of it, in cash, from the sale of your house. It was what made leaving affordable for me. We had also been together for 20 years. It seems like such a huge task, but you just break it down in to manageable chunks. If he's a high earner, could he buy you out?

Eg.

House sale £300,000
Mortgage left £100,000, so £200,000 equity

His Pension value £80,000
Your Pension Value £30000
Total Pensions £110,000

So, equity = £200,000
Pensions = £110,000
= £310,000 divide by 2 = £155,000 each

You walk away with £125,000 cash + £30,000 Pension
He walks away with £75,000 cash + £80,000 Pension

This is how my settlement worked. Obviously I have simplified the example.

ILoveJamaica · 12/10/2021 09:03

Op do you really think he would look after you if you were ill and old age?

Why do I see the Op in bed, and her husband as Kathy Bates in Misery?

PearLime · 12/10/2021 09:19

I do think you need to seek legal advice.

But with such a long marriage, you can take it as read you'll get around 50%.

So when you're planning to leave, you can plan that you'll get 50% of the house, 50% of the pension etc.

I don't see how you would get much less than 50%...

Fraine · 12/10/2021 09:23

He can't move heaven and earth to stop you getting half of the house. It's yours, it's irrefutable.

anthurium · 12/10/2021 09:23

Op won't leave.... Despite some excellent advice on here...she's I'll equipped to even understand what's been going on for the last 20 years...in denial... and seems more concerned about how she'd cope alone...

coffeeisthebest · 12/10/2021 09:25

This week I heard of friends of ours who have separated because one of them has stopped loving the other. Just that. None of the other controlling crap you are putting up with just so you have someone to eat Christmas dinner with. I feel angry reading what you write as you sound like my Mum who has stayed for similar reasons to all those fears you had and it has choked her life and she has been miserable. You deserve more. We all do. The worst thing is not to be alone, it is to feel miserable and lonely with someone else.

FinallyHere · 12/10/2021 09:47

Hand hold for you OP

sospspsp · 12/10/2021 09:56

@anthurium

Op won't leave.... Despite some excellent advice on here...she's I'll equipped to even understand what's been going on for the last 20 years...in denial... and seems more concerned about how she'd cope alone...
It's a shame, but that's her decision. It can take a long time to process and even then some people can't face the fight no matter the gain.
JumperandJacket · 12/10/2021 10:00

@anthurium

Op won't leave.... Despite some excellent advice on here...she's I'll equipped to even understand what's been going on for the last 20 years...in denial... and seems more concerned about how she'd cope alone...
I think anyone leaving a 20y marriage is entitled to have concerns. Doesn’t mean she is in denial at all.

I think his behaviour is abusive and that she should leave. I also wonder whether he has some sort of degenerative neurological condition- the dropping friends, personality change, paranoia and confabulation are all concerning. But as someone has said on another thread (with reference to MH but same applies) this is not a reason to accept the behaviour, which is very likely to get worse.

Glowbuggy · 12/10/2021 10:12

If he thinks a cardboard box is going to damage a worktop, then he has serious psychological problems.
And he sounds like a dick.
Get rid.

anthurium · 12/10/2021 10:22

"I think anyone leaving a 20y marriage is entitled to have concerns. Doesn’t mean she is in denial at all."

It's taken her 20 years ....she's has wasted the best part of her life on this 'marriage'. Unless you have cognitive issues, of course you've been in denial.... She is concerned how she'd cope alone be cause she seems to exhibit very low level life skills...

anthurium · 12/10/2021 10:25

"It's a shame, but that's her decision. It can take a long time to process and even then some people can't face the fight no matter the gain."

Yes some women/men never leave...shame relationships are revered so much, and the lack of financial independence/low emotional reserves all contribute to low level life skills and inability to see problems for what they are

3luckystars · 12/10/2021 10:26

I keep thinking of that Julia Robert’s film with the husband lining up the towels.

Silenceisgolden20 · 12/10/2021 10:35

Op start by reading about abuse and contacting womens aid to talk to someone. Reaching out on mumsnet is a start. Build up slowly, gradually gain knowledge. When you're ready, look at your legal options. Get strong. Start standing up for yourself. It will take time, you will need to uncondtion yourself. Reach out to friends and talk to people. Don't keep it all to yourself

DotDashDottyDashy · 12/10/2021 11:07

It's hard to explain - I genuinely think he's just wired this way, and he literally cannot see other peoples' viewpoints. So trying to discuss anything with him is an exercise in frustration because he has his very set view of a situation and that's it - no amount of talking will sway him from that.

He gets very set on what I'd call 'rules' and he finds it impossible to diverge from those rules. For example, he has some weights and a treadmill set up in the garage. He doesn't enjoy doing the weights or treadmill, but he does it religiously five times a week, the same programme, because that's what he decided to do 20-odd years ago, so that's what he does. I've suggested more enjoyable forms of exercise - running outside, footall, etc., but he cannot diverge at all from the programme he set himself 20 years ago, despite not enjoying it. Another example is the dogs. When they were puppies and we were toilet training them, we had let them outside immediately after eating because at that age they cannot control their bladders. But now they are five years old, my husband will still let them outside straight after eating, even though they can now control their bladders. But despite me telling him over and over that they're not puppies anymore and don't need to toilet straight after eating anymore, he continues to do it, because that's the rule we set five years ago and that cannot be changed now. He then of course gets frustrated when they won't go for a wee when he lets them outside, but cannot see that it's because they don't need to. What I'm trying to say is, he gets obsessive about things being just so, and our home is one of those things. So me repeating over and over again, over many years, that he needs to stop monitoring me, just doesn't go in because at all because the home must be kept in a very exact and precise way.

He is extremely intelligent and he excels at work. He doesn't like his line of work, but has stuck with it for 20-odd years because that's what he decided to do back then and he cannot see that he could actually change it to something else that he might enjoy. So he continues to complain about his colleagues but is incapable of seeing that it's his choice to be in this career and equally it could be his choice to do something different (he's skilled in areas that could be used in several job types, so it's not that he's stuck in a niche field).

I think he's learnt some social skills and almost 'acts' his way through social situations because he knows that's what you're meant to do. But as I've got to know him more and more over the years, I've noticed that he's almost like he's saying pre-learnt lines. He lacks a certain amount empathy for humans - a TV documentary where humans are suffering appalling horrors wouldn't move him, but he cannot stand animal cruelty, and has to turn the TV over if there's any hint of an animal being hurt. Because I think he's hardwired this way, and I don't think he's deliberately malicious, I let a lot of things go. He is not manipulative and he is not trying to be mean or hurtful. Most of it is unintentioanal and he simply cannot process my problem. He just does not see things the way I do or other people do. The only way I can think of describing it is, say he couldn't see trees for example, than trees just don't exist, and that's final - even if it was explained to him that trees do exist, he cannot see them so he won't have it that they do exist.

He can't read emotions or situations, and so he gets really defensive if he's questioned on anything. He doesn't like things changing in his world, so when I diverge from sympathetic, funny wife who listens to his woes and cracks jokes to keep him entertained, he cannot accept the change and that's when he goes snappy at me, because I'm disturbing his careful world. So right now, when I'm not talking to him and just need space from him, this will really disturb him because he's not good at change but also because he doesn't understand grey areas - only black and white - and he doesn't like emotional behaviour. He'll currently be in a self-righteous indignation about how I cause more work for him round the house by not doing things properly, he'll be telling himself I'm lazy, my life is easier than his, etc. Then, when I finally give in and ask him to talk, he'll deliver all this character assassination to me, then won't listen to my viewpoint because he has already made his mind up and believes his own narrative. He will not deviate at all from this - this is now decided and is fact about me. I cannot be right about anything, ever. If he doesn't see something that way, then it doesn't exist and so I'm wrong, and that's that.

Writing all that down, and also reading my OP, makes him sound like an awful person. But I'm not a pathetic naive idiot. Of course he has good points, or I wouldn't have married him in the first place. He is steady, calm and decent. He can be very funny, and he can laugh at himself if I poke fun at him. He is reliable, predictable and extremely loyal. There is no way on earth he would ever cheat on me - that would be appalling to him. If anyone has wronged me, he is outraged and will always fight my corner. He never shies away from defending me. He's absolutely rock solid in that respect. After coming out of a relationship where my ex was volatile (not violent, just shouty and dramatic), this calmness when I met my husband was really appealing. He's still like that - any crisis, and he's so soothing and steadying to be around. He is a surprisingly good listener when I have a problem (but it needs to be a problem that doesn't involve him having to change anything about himself), he will sit and listen to me patiently for hours without getting bored. He is great at calming me down and comforting me with things like when my dad got diagnosed because he can look at a situation objectively and sensibly. He will happily sit with me and let me be hysterical about my dad, and all the while being calm and strong and listening to me, giving me a hug (albeit a bit awkwardly, but he knows this is what I need) and then saying all the right things to calm me down. He just can't examine his own 'flaws' or difficulties, and he is completely un-self-aware of the impact his rigidity may have on other people.

Op won't leave.... Despite some excellent advice on here...she's I'll equipped to even understand what's been going on for the last 20 years...in denial... and seems more concerned about how she'd cope alone...

You couldn't be more wrong. I've got my eyes wide open, but like any long-term marriage in which you've invested a lot of time and energy, there are really great times and there are bad times and it is never a simple decision to leave, and no situation is black and white. As I explained in my final paragraph above, my husband has qualities that I love deeply. He's complicated, but actually he's also really simple at the same time. It's posters like you, who get impatient when someone who posts on the Relationships board doesn't immediately agree they need to LTB that put people like me off posting here.

OP posts:
Glowbuggy · 12/10/2021 11:12

I’ve changed my mind. He sounds like he’s autistic.

DotDashDottyDashy · 12/10/2021 11:13

She is concerned how she'd cope alone be cause she seems to exhibit very low level life skills...

And you seem to exhibit very low level empathy and understanding skills

OP posts:
TatianaBis · 12/10/2021 11:20

I think there are posters on the thread who can grasp the complexity of the situation and the complexity of DH’s personality and pathology.

Given the detail about his rigid routines and inability to cope with change, black and white world view and difficulty reading emotion and situation, I do wonder if he’s on the spectrum.

However key question is not whether he is or not but whether you can live with his behaviour.

Silenceisgolden20 · 12/10/2021 11:20

Then if he's so great OP, whats the problem? You have your eyes wide open but you're worrying about how you would spend xmas without him.
What do you want to do? You can't change him and you sound desperately unhappy.

What do you really want, to live like this for the rest of your life? Cos that's ok. But change is OK too.

SueSaid · 12/10/2021 11:24

You just sound like very different people. Maybe he has ocd, maybe he's just an introvert.

You just have to decide if the house and the lifestyle is worth the obvious irritation his presence presents.

You probably both deserve better.

As you're so young It seems obvious to anyone reading this you're both now incompatible and need to separate. Do you have sex still? I've read your posts and may have missed it but doesn't seem to be any mention of fancying him, intimacy etc. Really important parts of a relationship, more so than who shuts the door and why.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 12/10/2021 11:26

So me repeating over and over again, over many years, that he needs to stop monitoring me, just doesn't go in because at all because the home must be kept in a very exact and precise way.

I know people will be along any minute to diagnose him and say he's autistic or has OCD. The thing is, that may well be true, but it changes absolutely nothing.

You're still unhappy, still stifled, still controlled in your own home, still suffocated and still treated like a guest he is allowing to use his house and his things rather than an equal partner who he shares a home with.

Whether he's autistic or has OCD or has any other labels it does NOT change the fact he is slowly suffocating you in a prison.

You're 'allowed' to do stuff out of the house - you say he's 'given' you freedom as if he is the gatekeeper to your life choices.

But he very much sees your life together as 'my house, my rules' and that his word is final. That isn't healthy love. He doesn't see you as his equal. That cannot end well.

The facts are that you are unhappy, stressed, controlled, restricted and despite you begging him for years to change - he simply doesn't want to. He refuses to. He doesn't want you to be happier if it means him compromising at all. Again, that isn't love.

I also think that I couldn't be with someone who I thought would turn truly nasty if we broke up despite no cheating or abuse on my part. It's a huge red flag that you think if you were to leave him, he would totally fuck you over. A decent person would be upset and want to get their fair share of joint assets, but it sounds like you think he would be vengeful. That's not someone you should want to be with anyway.

PearLime · 12/10/2021 11:29

@DotDashDottyDashy

She is concerned how she'd cope alone be cause she seems to exhibit very low level life skills...

And you seem to exhibit very low level empathy and understanding skills

I think people are getting frustrated that you're in a situation that's at worst abusive, at best extremely irritating, BUT you are defending him a bit and making excuses as to why you can't leave
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