DH has no friends and following me round the house

[DotDashDottyDashy]

My husband dropped his friends years ago and he has nothing to do with his family. He now works at home since the pandemic and his employer has made this a permanent thing. I already worked at home because I freelance. He goes to a book club once a month, but apart from that I am literally never alone in the house. He doesn't count the book-club members as friends and he will never stay for a drink after they've discussed the book as the rest of them do. I have lots of friends and interests that take me out of the house, but sometimes I'd just like some time in the house on my own without hearing his ever-there presence - the TV, his stomping and sighing.

If I close a door behind me (e.g. if I'm reading in the snug or in the bath, I close the door so I can't hear the TV that he has on all the time, or if I'm in my office I keep the door closed so I can't hear him on his work calls), he will always, without fail, find a reason to come into the room, and then leave the door open on his way back out. If I ask him to close the door behind him, he always frowns and sighs very loudly and exaggeratedly. I find this so unpleasant that I've stopped asking him to close the door and I wait until he's gone, then quietly close it myself. He wants to watch TV every night, whereas I don't - sometimes I want to read or do some drawing or something, but if I say this, he always asks why can't I do it in the same room as him (the reason is because the TV is distracting, but also I just want some time on my own as well sometimes) or he'll pull a 'jokey' sulky pouty face and say sarcastically 'oh that's nice'. Or, he'll give it half an hour, then come and join me in whatever room I'm in, sit next to me, and scroll through his phone.

He cares very deeply about furniture, decor and clothes. He watches what I do in the house and corrects things I do. For example, if I put the box of teabags on the kitchen counter, he'll lift it up to put a protective mat under it. Or he'll pretend he's admiring the knife I'm using and come to look at it (when in reality I know it's because he wants to make sure none of the veg I'm chopping have fallen off the chopping board onto the worktop). If he thinks one of us might have damaged something, he goes nuts, even if he can't see any damage with his naked eye, so he'll do things like get a torch to inspect it. I never do things to his standards - I apparently do gardening wrong, cleaning wrong, bedmaking wrong, washing wrong.

He doesn't like us using things in case we damage them, so the kitchen worktops are covered in lots of protective mats (so we can hardly see any of the worktop now) and the settees are covered in protective throws. And he gets really tense when we have visitors in case they damage something.

If I try discussing anything with him, he either denies whatever I say (even stupid things that are obviously true - it's his default position to just deny anything I say. I could point out his grey hair and he'd deny it's grey), or he gets really defensive, or more often than not he just walks away and refuses to discuss anything with me, going completely silent on me. He literally never gets riled or worked up. He likes to ignore me when I ask something of him, and if I repeat myself, he'll just say really dismissively and calmly, "yeah I heard you", but then he won't comment any further. He also makes things up about me. For example, he was sorting out our important documents and I asked him to leave mine alone and I would sort them myself, and he told me that I had lost my driving licence once so I shouldn't do the sorting and should let him do it. I know for a fact that I've never lost my driving licence, but he was so adamant that I started believing him. He could tell me I'm spelling my name wrong and he'd be so believable that I'd doubt how my own name is spelt.

I'm 20 years into this marriage, and now I'm perimenopausal, and suddenly I'm just drained by it. We're currently not talking to each other at all after he was snappy with me on Saturday all day but wouldn't tell me what the issue was. He does that a lot - snapping and frowning at me, but if I ask him what's wrong he says "nothing" every single time. I really fucking hate the silent treatment - I think it's a pathetic game and really manipulative, but I can't be arsed trying to engage with him anymore, so I'm just not bothering. I know I'm in the wrong not talking to him, but I'm exhausted by him and actually it's quite nice not having to talk to him and listen to him go on about how his work colleagues have wronged him this week.

I know people will be along any minute to diagnose him and say he's autistic or has OCD. The thing is, that may well be true, but it changes absolutely nothing.

You're still unhappy, still stifled, still controlled in your own home, still suffocated and still treated like a guest he is allowing to use his house and his things rather than an equal partner who he shares a home with.

Whether he's autistic or has OCD or has any other labels it does NOT change the fact he is slowly suffocating you in a prison.

Exactly. You've hit the nail on the head. That's why I've been very careful in this thread not to label him with OCD, autism or anything else. Because (1) it's not my place to armchair-diagnose him (2) I've gently encouraged him a few times to seek a diagnosis but he won't, and (3) it's irrelevant anyway because I still live with the outcomes of whatever personality traits he may or may not have, whether he has an official label or not.

I genuinely think he's just wired this way, and he literally cannot see other peoples' viewpoints.

Oh yes, I know plenty of people like that. And the rest. I even know some clever people who use exactly the same voice tone when they talk about their specialist knowledge as when they are spouting utter bollocks they made up on the spot, and sometimes it even fools me though I know it's just the way they talk.

Thing is, you need to think about the trajectory. Over time he is doing less and less socially, and clinging to you more and more, and he is getting more and more rigid. This isn't likely to get better.

You could set a few boundaries: he must develop a little social life of his own, and go out at least once weekly. He must not follow you into the bathroom, ever. You could set some specific times of day when he is not allowed to disturb you, and times of day when he is allowed to. You could tell him that those are conditions for you staying in the marriage. You would have to ignore all huffing and puffing. His rule-following will eventually kick in, though of course you will struggle to change the rules if you get fed up.

You could even make an ASC assessment a condiiton of staying in the marriage... but would that even help? Really you need to ask yourself: however much of a darling he may be in his own way, however clever he may be, are you going to sacrifice the rest of your life to his rigidities and his profound lack of social interest and ability? Because frankly (ASC or not) I wouldn't.

Have you been considering leaving your DH for a long time or only recently?

In addition to the options of leave/stay have you considered a third whereby you stay in a relationship but live in separate properties? Two cottages next door or two flats in the same block?

Much would depend on how far his control would reach even if he’s not living with you.

And of course whether you actually want to stay with him.

I think people are getting frustrated that you're in a situation that's at worst abusive, at best extremely irritating, BUT you are defending him a bit and making excuses as to why you can't leave

I literally posted about 12 hours ago. Give me a chance to process people's opinions and have a think about them, eh? And I'm not defending him - I'm answering questions from other posters on why I spent 20 years with him.

@Snog

Have you been considering leaving your DH for a long time or only recently?

Since the lockdowns really. Like I said upthread, things have deteriorated very slowly and even 10 years ago things were absolutely fine - that's around when the last of the friends were dropped. But even then, it was still okay, but him working at home and being here all the time has brought things to a head, and made me start questioning things like, what would retirement be like with him, can I see myself here in another 10 years time if he continues down this isolated path he's set himself on, with only me as his sole social contact.

I think people are getting frustrated that you're in a situation that's at worst abusive, at best extremely irritating, BUT you are defending him a bit and making excuses as to why you can't leave

The arrogance of this reply is staggering. Frustrated because OP hasn't immediately leapt in a cab at the suggestion of a few MNers?

OP, it sounds complicated. I do think it's worth talking to a solicitor about options and your financial position. It's also worth spending some time imagining how you would feel in 5 years, say, if either you had or hadn't left- actually doing it will always seem overwhelming but having a goal in mind might help you work out what you actually want to do. Would also suggest a therapist to talk all this through with (for you alone, not as a couple). FWIW, to me as an outsider, it definitely sounds as if you would be happier in the long run if you left.

@1forAll74

He has obviously got some sort of issues going on in his mind, that can maybe be helped somehow or other. But it will be hard to do, if he himself, doesn't think that he has any problems at all. These compulsive acts are difficult to deal with. It is most irritating to live with someone like this, but I would not be leaving someone because of this.

As you were OP - 1forAll would choose to stay with yer man, so you should too.

Not sure why she thinks you're only living with a bit of OCD, & is ignoring the gaslighting, stonewalling, constant criticism, inability to leave you alone in a room including the bathroom, deliberate ignoring of your questions & his refusal to seek medical help. But she has helpfully informed us that the right thing to do is jettison your own needs & MH, & stay put.

As a thought exercise, what does the picture of staying, & living like this forever, feel like OP?

Some people will do, put up with, justify to themselves and others anything other than be single. Why is being single so terrifying Op? Do you not recall a time in your life where you were able to think for yourself and look after yourself? Have you bee that institutionalised?

@AmaryllisNightAndDay

I genuinely think he's just wired this way, and he literally cannot see other peoples' viewpoints.

Oh yes, I know plenty of people like that. And the rest. I even know some clever people who use exactly the same voice tone when they talk about their specialist knowledge as when they are spouting utter bollocks they made up on the spot, and sometimes it even fools me though I know it's just the way they talk.

Thing is, you need to think about the trajectory. Over time he is doing less and less socially, and clinging to you more and more, and he is getting more and more rigid. This isn't likely to get better.

You could set a few boundaries: he must develop a little social life of his own, and go out at least once weekly. He must not follow you into the bathroom, ever. You could set some specific times of day when he is not allowed to disturb you, and times of day when he is allowed to. You could tell him that those are conditions for you staying in the marriage. You would have to ignore all huffing and puffing. His rule-following will eventually kick in, though of course you will struggle to change the rules if you get fed up.

You could even make an ASC assessment a condiiton of staying in the marriage... but would that even help? Really you need to ask yourself: however much of a darling he may be in his own way, however clever he may be, are you going to sacrifice the rest of your life to his rigidities and his profound lack of social interest and ability? Because frankly (ASC or not) I wouldn't.

You're absolutely right about the tone of voice: always the tone of the absolute expert.

The trajectory thing is a really helpful way of looking at things - thank you. Thinking about what you've said, I can see in the future that he could get more and more set in his ways and become a lot less flexible. The boundaries are something to think about. I have tried setting boundaries but he doesn't get it, so I'm not sure on that, but definitely worth thinking about.

Ultimately though, I think I've reached my point where I can't do it anymore. The bad is now outweighing the good more often than not.

I think it would be a good idea to get hrt. It has really changed my life for the better. You sound very sensible but I know that I looked at my life much more negatively during menopause. When my hormones were balanced I felt complete different .
(I still left my husband right enough 😂 - but it was the right decision 😊 . Good luck x

@JumperandJacket

I think people are getting frustrated that you're in a situation that's at worst abusive, at best extremely irritating, BUT you are defending him a bit and making excuses as to why you can't leave

The arrogance of this reply is staggering. Frustrated because OP hasn't immediately leapt in a cab at the suggestion of a few MNers?

OP, it sounds complicated. I do think it's worth talking to a solicitor about options and your financial position. It's also worth spending some time imagining how you would feel in 5 years, say, if either you had or hadn't left- actually doing it will always seem overwhelming but having a goal in mind might help you work out what you actually want to do. Would also suggest a therapist to talk all this through with (for you alone, not as a couple). FWIW, to me as an outsider, it definitely sounds as if you would be happier in the long run if you left.

Thank you. I think some others have suggested therapy too, and I can see how it would be really helpful, so I'll look into it. And also a solicitor or direct-access barrister as suggested last night.

I think people are getting frustrated that you're in a situation that's at worst abusive, at best extremely irritating, BUT you are defending him a bit and making excuses as to why you can't leave

It's baffling to me how someone can be so entitled as to write something like this.

'Making excuses' - she doesn't answer to MN, she's processing the likely end of a 20 year relationship.

Absolutely tone deaf to speak to a woman feeling vulnerable and confused in that way. If you're that frustrated you've lost sight of the fact there's a real person struggling at the other end of the thread, hide it.

Ridiculous.

As a thought exercise, what does the picture of staying, & living like this forever, feel like OP?

Stifling and frustrating, to be honest.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

I think people are getting frustrated that you're in a situation that's at worst abusive, at best extremely irritating, BUT you are defending him a bit and making excuses as to why you can't leave

It's baffling to me how someone can be so entitled as to write something like this.

'Making excuses' - she doesn't answer to MN, she's processing the likely end of a 20 year relationship.

Absolutely tone deaf to speak to a woman feeling vulnerable and confused in that way. If you're that frustrated you've lost sight of the fact there's a real person struggling at the other end of the thread, hide it.

Ridiculous.

Thank you :-) and to everyone else who's said similar in response to this post.

@Timetoretiretospain

I think it would be a good idea to get hrt. It has really changed my life for the better. You sound very sensible but I know that I looked at my life much more negatively during menopause. When my hormones were balanced I felt complete different . (I still left my husband right enough 😂 - but it was the right decision 😊 . Good luck x

Agree - I definitely feel I need HRT! I'm just doing battle with my GP for it at the moment

You say you don't want to diagnose him, but then you provide a detailed description of his behaviour, almost like you are inviting people to do exactly that. For what's it's worth I work with a lot of people on the autistic spectrum and the behaviours you've described strongly correlate with that.

However, for me the really key piece of information is that when you've tried to speak to him about his behaviour and how it's impacting you he is unwilling or unable to change, and seems not really to be listening to you. And the question of whether he has an autism spectrum disorder is quite relevant here, because autistic people generally find it quite difficult to change these types of behaviours, it's how their brain is wired. Most of them learn to do it to some extent if they want to function in society, but in intimate relationships people want to feel they can be their true selves. When I read your initial post I thought maybe he was suffering from depression, anxiety or OCD which would be a different matter, and potentially something that he could get help for and get past, but from your follow up posts that seems less likely.

Based on everything you've said, I do think you should end the marriage.

I really sympathise with what you say about your fears for the future if you leave, but I wonder why it is that you're not thinking about some of the positive things that could happen. Having your own space and the ability to relax and enjoy it, a more satisfying and productive work life, the possibility of meeting someone else with whom you could have a loving and fulfilling relationship etc. It may be that therapy would help you focus on these possibilities, or possibly even something like life coaching which could help you to set some tangible goals and a clear plan for how you want your life to be in the future. Good luck.

@RedBeetroot12

Aw I feel he just wants companionship when he wants to be in the same room as you even when you’re doing different activities, that’s actually a really positive thing in my eyes, he enjoys the quiet company and just having you in the room obviously gives him a sense of well-being. I’m the same in my relationship, please don’t be unkind and move to somewhere different for space, spend a few evenings together in the same space doing different things, I feel he’s clearly very lonely to be focusing on making sure everything is pristine in the house… I truly feel for the poor guy. I bet he feels jealous and resentful of your ease at having and maintaining friendships though.

FFS

OP: I'm beginning to see the extent of DH's emotional abuse, & I am scared of being trapped in a miserable marriage for another 30 years

Beetroot: Aaaaaw! Stop trying to avoid your abuser, & make sure you spend lots more time being suffocated by him. Your poor abuser, you are very mean to want him to stop abusing you.

@TatianaBis

In addition to the options of leave/stay have you considered a third whereby you stay in a relationship but live in separate properties? Two cottages next door or two flats in the same block?

Much would depend on how far his control would reach even if he’s not living with you.

And of course whether you actually want to stay with him.

This would be a dream scenario I get my own place where I can spill things and put teabags on a worktop, but still keep him in my life, even as just friends or companions. But he wouldn't go for it. This is where I really struggle, because I'd hate to think of him not in my life, despite how hard he is to live with.

Oh sorry, I just remembered, someone else asked about intimacy - nope, that's dead in the water. I'm genuinely not bothered at the moment because my libido has plummeted, but who knows if it might come back.

@RedBeetroot12

Aw I feel he just wants companionship when he wants to be in the same room as you even when you’re doing different activities, that’s actually a really positive thing in my eyes, he enjoys the quiet company and just having you in the room obviously gives him a sense of well-being. I’m the same in my relationship, please don’t be unkind and move to somewhere different for space, spend a few evenings together in the same space doing different things, I feel he’s clearly very lonely to be focusing on making sure everything is pristine in the house… I truly feel for the poor guy. I bet he feels jealous and resentful of your ease at having and maintaining friendships though.

Jesus

What a terrifying read.

And you are only 47.

Wow.

I would be gathering all and any copies of financials and leaving them somewhere safe.

He sounds both creepy and batshit.

You are utterly controlled by him in your home.

Creepy.

@IceandIndigo

You say you don't want to diagnose him, but then you provide a detailed description of his behaviour, almost like you are inviting people to do exactly that. For what's it's worth I work with a lot of people on the autistic spectrum and the behaviours you've described strongly correlate with that.

However, for me the really key piece of information is that when you've tried to speak to him about his behaviour and how it's impacting you he is unwilling or unable to change, and seems not really to be listening to you. And the question of whether he has an autism spectrum disorder is quite relevant here, because autistic people generally find it quite difficult to change these types of behaviours, it's how their brain is wired. Most of them learn to do it to some extent if they want to function in society, but in intimate relationships people want to feel they can be their true selves. When I read your initial post I thought maybe he was suffering from depression, anxiety or OCD which would be a different matter, and potentially something that he could get help for and get past, but from your follow up posts that seems less likely.

Based on everything you've said, I do think you should end the marriage.

I really sympathise with what you say about your fears for the future if you leave, but I wonder why it is that you're not thinking about some of the positive things that could happen. Having your own space and the ability to relax and enjoy it, a more satisfying and productive work life, the possibility of meeting someone else with whom you could have a loving and fulfilling relationship etc. It may be that therapy would help you focus on these possibilities, or possibly even something like life coaching which could help you to set some tangible goals and a clear plan for how you want your life to be in the future. Good luck.

Thank you so much. I love the idea of life coaching so I'll look into it. I've very definitely become really overwhelmed and unable to see the wood for the trees, and I need some outside perspective. That's why I started this thread, because I was sick of my own thoughts and things just going round and round, and feeling impossible.

With the behaviour thing, I think I just wanted to try and explain why I don't think he's deliberately malicious or anything. But I can see why you think I was inviting diagnoses, and actually you've been really helpful in your explanation about how hard it is to change their behaviours.

@IceandIndigo

You say you don't want to diagnose him, but then you provide a detailed description of his behaviour, almost like you are inviting people to do exactly that. For what's it's worth I work with a lot of people on the autistic spectrum and the behaviours you've described strongly correlate with that.

However, for me the really key piece of information is that when you've tried to speak to him about his behaviour and how it's impacting you he is unwilling or unable to change, and seems not really to be listening to you. And the question of whether he has an autism spectrum disorder is quite relevant here, because autistic people generally find it quite difficult to change these types of behaviours, it's how their brain is wired. Most of them learn to do it to some extent if they want to function in society, but in intimate relationships people want to feel they can be their true selves. When I read your initial post I thought maybe he was suffering from depression, anxiety or OCD which would be a different matter, and potentially something that he could get help for and get past, but from your follow up posts that seems less likely.

Based on everything you've said, I do think you should end the marriage.

I really sympathise with what you say about your fears for the future if you leave, but I wonder why it is that you're not thinking about some of the positive things that could happen. Having your own space and the ability to relax and enjoy it, a more satisfying and productive work life, the possibility of meeting someone else with whom you could have a loving and fulfilling relationship etc. It may be that therapy would help you focus on these possibilities, or possibly even something like life coaching which could help you to set some tangible goals and a clear plan for how you want your life to be in the future. Good luck.

She's scared about the financial impact - Op stated she'd be worse off...loneliness etc. It makes no sense as she's said she has friends ...letting of the status quo of being married?

I'm sure we'll be hearing about this in 5 years' time....women like this tend to hang on until the very end...if the impetus was there, she'd have acted on it long time. The situation according to her description sounds like it was barely tolerable for years, but without children, ageing parents, what else could she have been hiding behind?

'Oh sorry, I just remembered, someone else asked about intimacy - nope, that's dead in the water'

Forget the hobbies, the ignoring your 'quiet time', if you don't actually fancy each other you are flogging a dead horse.

We can all write reams on control, fussy behaviour etc but it boils down to do you both physically desire each other and as you don't then you really do need to leave. We can all forgive a multitude of annoying behaviour traits but if you aren't having any intimacy it is over.