Divorce Settlement - thoughts?

[lilypooh]

I had my decree absolute in jul 19 but in Aug 19 received papers in the post for a divorce settlement.

Nutshell info
Married 2 yrs 9 months
Have 1 child together now 8 (I have two sons from previous)
I owned family home years before he moved in.
He paid nothing into home. (Ie no lump sum to equal the status -just 650 to help pay bills and kept the rest of his wage approx 1500)
I have equity of around 100k
He has a pension around 400k

He wants a settlement of 45k from me. I can’t afford. On UC and low income etc. Also, he didn’t put in so why try to take out is my philosophy. And he has much higher assets.

Final court hearing in 6 weeks. Eeek. I have no solicitor as can’t afford. Any help or ideas appreciated.

Has his pension been properly valued? And you've both done and exchanged your financial declarations?

Yes they'll start at 50/50, but then adjust due to needs, and 3 kids living with you will shift that massively in your favour (assuming he has no other kids from previous relationships living with him). If the main assets are as you've mentioned - your house and his pension and nothing else, then I think it unlikely he'll be awarded any equity from your house.

I assume that you have attended an FDR hearing if your Final Hearing is set for six weeks. What was his argument for a 45% share of the house equity? If you know what his argument is you can prepare a counter-argument.

Seven years together including pre-marriage is not classed as a long marriage so you can argue that not all assets are marital. Did you cohabit for all or any of that time? Could he claim that his contribution to household expenses included money towards the mortgage?

It would be very useful if you could expand on his viewpoint. If he has legal representation they must have formed a case. It doesn't necessarily mean he will achieve it but you need to be ready with your counter argument.

He hasn’t offered any explanation as to how he came up with that value so I can’t argue much really. He just wants me to pay a deposit for a house he would like to buy. That’s pretty much it. The first four years he didn’t live with me. I have basically said there is no justification for this but have so far just asked for a clean break. I won’t be offering that again after all this stress! Lols …watch it go against me now I have said that. I am completely overwhelmed I have to say. He has no other children.

If he's asking for a % of the equity on the house, ask him for the same % of his pension.

OP, try this site, Rights of Women.

They have an advice line : rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-advice/family-law/

THey also have very detailed PDF docs you can download : rightsofwomen.org.uk/get-information/family-law/

This is more specific: rightsofwomen.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/PDF-guide-to-financial-arrangements-after-marriage-breakdown.pdf

If he is going down the route of claiming 50/50 marital assets as PPs have said, you counterclaim for 50% of his pension. Technically you may end up better off as you will have percentage of equity in house plus a pension pot that a tax free amount can be drawn down to pay off any remaining mortgage you may have. On the information you have given it is hard to ascertain the strength of his claim. It's really down to the judge to verify the length of this relationship to add to the consequent marriage. An eight year old child would suggest at least nine or more years even if you weren't cohabiting. Perhaps some legal advice on this point would be helpful.

You can join the Wikivorce site and post questions on their forums.

However, needs are paramount, particularly when you have children. Are all three children living with you and for how long ie any going to uni? How much childcare for your joint child is he intending to provide? Any split should reflect your respective housing needs. Selling your house to give him a lump sum, whatever that may be, may be unrealistic if you are unable to buy or house again on your income especially if you are already claiming UC. A clean break with you keeping the house and him keeping the pension sounds viable if he is able to rehouse himself without recourse to a lump sum. Is that possible?

What I will say is that having gone through the court process and representing myself until final hearing when I used a barrister, my experience has been that judges generally take into account your lack of representation. Your exH can make any demand he wants, if it's going to cause deprivation to your children it is unlikely to be successful. Wanting to buy a house with £45k of assets that you can't service is not the same as needing the same thing.

My friend self represented in court for her divorce. The judge was lovely and talked her through the entire process. He made the eventual decision so she walked away with what was fair and without an expensive legal bill

Can you please clarify exactly how long you lived together in total? Just googled a couple of things and it's suggesting cohabitation before marriage has to be seamless ie if he only lived with you for say three years, it would count as a short marriage which doesn't necessarily make 50/50 applicable.

So, he moved in jul 16, we married in Oct 16, he left in Aug 19 and were finally divorced in Jul 20. (We initially got together in 2012 and had our daughter in 2013)

One thing I wondered, how do they cross examine you in court? Is it about contribution to the marriage etc - do they forensically for through your finances of who did what? I am preparing for that and every other possible question but it’s nerve wracking leading up to the unknown.
Ps can’t thank you all enough so far - honestly. You’ve all been great x

@Bunnies53

He hasn’t offered any explanation as to how he came up with that value so I can’t argue much really. He just wants me to pay a deposit for a house he would like to buy. That’s pretty much it. The first four years he didn’t live with me. I have basically said there is no justification for this but have so far just asked for a clean break. I won’t be offering that again after all this stress! Lols …watch it go against me now I have said that. I am completely overwhelmed I have to say. He has no other children.

Be careful with your terminology - clean break doesn't mean you both just walk away with what each of you is currently holding, which your post reads as though that's your idea of it. It means that it's a full and final settlement so that no one can come back later and ask for an amendment (e.g. if one of you wins the lottery, or when all the kids have left home). You'd still have to split assets in a fair way for a clean break, just that they do it with consideration that it's the final division of assets.

And as other's have said, don't be scared of self representation, the family courts are supposed to be supportive of people in that situation. It can even work against partners who do have legal representation if their solicitor or barrister appear to be bullying. But it would be worth getting expert advice on the financial division to make sure you're not overlooking/misunderstanding anything.

Like any kind of negotiation, his solicitor will obviously be starting with something ambitious. They know full well that the final settlement will be reeled back in from what they're asking.

I don't know the exact process/timescale but have you both done financial disclosure yet? Do you have a copy of his? I'd have thought you should have with a final hearing scheduled so soon.

www.mediateuk.co.uk/financial-disclosure-on-divorce/

From memory, before final hearing a Section 25 statements is produced by each side setting out the facts of the case and submitted to the court. This will include length of marriage, assets including pensions, any debts, earnings including potential earnings etc. I am sure you can get help with this from the Wikivorce forum.

In court you will need a position statement which sets out what you are asking the judge to adjudicate on ie you want a clean break regarding assets , no claim on his pension etc. Your child maintenance claim can be made via the CMS, doesn't need to be in your settlement.

If your exH made the application for financial settlement, he is cross examined first by you. Basically you can ask him questions based on his position statement.

You are questioned by his barrister, if he has one, next. They may try to put pressure on you but calm, honest answers required. Take your time.

From what you have said your marriage including cohabitation was around three years and he didn't contribute before this period even though you had a child together. He was housing himself up to July 2016? He has also managed to re-house himself since August 2019 but is now asking for £45k to buy a property.

Unless there is something missing here, he seems to be assuming a 50%ish claim on assets on the basis of a very short marriage even though that could open up a counterclaim on 50% of his pension. It doesn't make sense as you could potentially be £200k richer from his pension and worst case scenario £45k poorer from your house, even if you were able to release this amount to him. Throw in your children and the share of assets could swing even further your way ie you need say 70% to keep the house. I would definitely be investigating this scenario with posters on Wikivorce. They may be able to enlighten you on realistic outcome in court.

Just one further thought:

If he claims to need £45,000 cash for a house deposit it would be helpful if you can come to court armed with:

-some indication of the level of mortgage he can get on his salary (an online calculator is fine for this)

• how much savings he has for a deposit (he should have disclosed all bank statements).

-examples of up to three two bed houses he could afford without needing 45k of equity.

In Scotland if you bought the house before you were married then that it not matrimonial property. He on paper isn’t entitled to anything from it. He might be able to claim through unjustified enrichment but that can be tricky too. I’m not sure of the law in England but I’m sure it will be similar.

You would have a claim again his pension tho. As others have said, the courts first priority is making sure that the needs of the children are met. Definitely get proper legal advice.

One thing I have a Solicitor, we attempted mediation (through a charity at a much more reasonable cost). It has not been straightforward but I do not expect to go to Court, the mediator tried and the Solicitors have succeeded in moving to agreement without court. It has/is taking a long time but partly because I'm going for 50% of pensions.
But good advice was crucial (and my children are older).

Does he actually have a pension pot of 400k? Seems an awful lot as the rest of his finances don't seem so ship shape.

Yes he does have this pension pot. Why would I lie? He served in the armed forces - it is likely it is worth more than that as they generally under value. I will have more exact valuation after the pension expert provides their report.

Hi

Hello - having been through similar, albeit it 14 years ago now I’d say it’s highly unlikely a judge would award him anything near the figure he is asking for. We were married 3years, 1 month when he left and our daughter was 13 months. The house we lived in was mine (bought two years before divorce, He had no property, no money so He contributed nothing to the deposit etc.
When we split (his infidelity but the court aren’t interested in reasons for split) he demanded half the equity in my house. We ended going up court (I counter claimed for spousal support so could continue working part time till daughter school age )
Ta cut a long story short he got nothing (neither did I, mainly because the judge said he didn’t have it to give as his income was lower then which was probably true)
But reasons for him not getting any of my equity (which if i had had to give would have meant I’d have had to sell and downsize as I didn’t have £100k sitting around!) was ‘short marriage’ my need - I.e I had a baby that needed housing, she has nursery close by, I had family support there etc. There was no way a judge would force you out of a home when you have young children.
I should add that he came to the marriage with £28k debt which I paid off (via additional borrowing on my mortgage) so perhaps, to an extent, the judge thought he’d had (more than) his share from the property, I don’t know. You say your ex had debt - did you pay that off? Please let court know that if you did.
The only thing I thought he may have been entitled to was getting what he’d paid into the mortgage Back but as someone pointed out to me at the time he’d have to have paid rent/mortgage whatever his circumstances
In short I’d be amazed if a judge thinks he’s entitled to much (if anything) from what you’ve written. My ex tried these bullying tactics and I was scared.
Oh and it was length of marriage, not length of relationship the court were interested in from what I remember (or length of cohabitation in marital home)
Biggest thing though was my need as mother of a young child - this will be main focus in all cases I think
Good luck !

Hahahaha so he wants half your house but expects to keep all his pension?

He’s in for a nasty shock.

@dootball

Does he actually have a pension pot of 400k? Seems an awful lot as the rest of his finances don't seem so ship shape.

It does sound a lot but I know from experience that if a pension is going to pay out eg £30K a year, that is worth £750,000 over 25 years.

The saddest part of this is that the courts will still put you through three hearings whether the claim is ridiculous or not. Ops case should have been sorted at FDR ie the presiding judge should have pointed out the flaws in this claim and encouraged the parties to settle. Same thing happened to me. ExH husband thought he was going to get away with a very low offer, pushed it to final hearing (three hearings), judgment went my way. Complete waste of time and lots of legal fees.

The problem at my FDR was that he hadn’t disclosed his pension at that point. So it looked like I had a lot in the way of assets and he didn’t. So the judge hinted that I should pay 20k. I did have a solicitor at that point and I asked for the hearing to be adjourned for this reason but my solicitor said we should go ahead - how wrong was I to trust him. He didn’t once take the time to mention the fact it was missing and the case was biased etc etc hence I sacked him. I just don’t have anymore money or confidence for that matter to employ another. Although he brought the case to me, it took him nearly a year to provide his pension value - three guesses why! So this next hearing will be the first time that his assets are on show. That said, he still hasn’t provided everything to the pension expert so if that report isn’t done, I will def adjourn this time - everything needs to be on the table!

I can totally relate to what you are saying. My exHs barrister manipulated the FDR to look a certain way. I wasn't represented, had no idea what his case was because I wasn't given a position statement and the judge waffled on based on the lies he had been told. The actual outcome was very very different. They were trying to frighten me into a low settlement.

However, I stuck with it got a barrister for the final hearings and ended up with a very good, clean break settlement which has allowed me to retire early.

If I were you I would make sure you have cast iron evidence of everything asset wise and document it for the court well in advance. I am assuming that your exHs pension is some variation of a 'final salary ' if it's armed forces and the CETV is a lot lower than if you were to finance its benefits in a defined contribution pension? Ie you would need a lot more than £400k to generate an equivalent annuity?

The risk to you if you are aren't represented is that your xHs barrister will steer the hearing away from the relevant issues ie, short marriage, relative financial positions, his ability to house himself etc. You only get limited opportunities to speak in court. If the other side lies you can't correct them. You need to make the most of your questioning.

The applicants side also control the bundle for court which is all the documents that the judge refers to. I didn't see it until the hearing and it contained some surprise documents and excluded some I had sent to them. Make sure you send copies of everything you want the judge to see to court beforehand and point out if they are omitted. I think one of the emails they produced was a forgery!

I suspect, from my experience, they are trying to bamboozle the judge at final hearing in the hope he won't notice the things that are relevant to your case. My exH had zero case which became apparent in the hearing.

Your questioning of your exH is your opportunity to bring everything to the judges attention. I would prepare and rehearse your questions. Don't expect the judge to read everything, they don't. I am not a lawyer but I would be asking your XH where he was living since 2012, how he paid for it. Where he is living now, how is it paid for. Why does he need a deposit for a house if he has never owned a property. Make it very clear why he hasn't contributed to your house and the effect of giving him a lump sum on your ability to house your children. Also your exH will be able to access his pension funds at age 55, possibly earlier.

I can totally understand your reluctance to use solicitors under the circumstances. The court system is a shit show for manipulators and liars but you sound like a fighter, good on you!