Can't or won't?

[Jeremyspoke]

So DH and I have wasted yet another weekend arguing over the way he speaks to me when he gets stressed. Things can be 100% brilliant for us, getting on well, sex life good, work going well and everything peachy but then he'll (for instance) be running a bit late for something or have lots of things to get done in a short time so feel a bit pressured and it's like he switches on me. He'll snap at me, speak to me in a really derisory way, tut and roll his eyes when I'm speaking and generally display in his body language, tone and way of speaking and facial expressions that he's pissed off, with me being the apparent cause/target.

It makes me livid and hurt in equal measure and I don't hold back in telling him how it makes me feel, hence the wasted weekend, but he can't seem to accept that being stressed is no reason to be horrible to me. He will eventually concede that he needs to handle stress differently/better and I will get a halfhearted apology (which always has a 'but' at the end so isn't really/doesn't feel like an apology) but there's never any genuine remorse or sense of him wanting to 'make it up' to (or even with) me, he doesn't appear to care that he's upset me and will let days go by with me barely speaking to him (because I've withdrawn to protect myself from being blindsided again by him snapping at me when I thought everything was good) rather than make any effort to put things right between us.

He isn't the best communicator and I do sometimes get the feeling he wants to approach me to try to smooth things over but doesn't know how or is afraid I'll knock him back but tbh im losing patience with that as an excuse. The worst of it is I could forgive the odd snappy comment under pressure if he would just stop switching into Mr-Hyde-mode and looking at, speaking to and treating me like I'm his worst enemy and the source of all his problems and show a bit of remorse for the occasions when he does snap, I don't expect him to be perfect.

I have warned him that it's chipping away at my love for him, that eventually he will kill our marriage altogether but he just looks confused and says nothing in response. I can see it makes him miserable when we argue so it makes even less sense that he wouldn't a) try to stop the behaviour that starts the whole thing, and b) apologise properly and show some concern and remorse when it does happen. So is it that he won't, or that he genuinely can't/doesn't know how? It makes no sense to me that he would potentially let our marriage go down the pan rather than apologise so that leaves me thinking it must be can't but I couldn't spell out any more clearly what I need from him so I don't understand why he can't?

Do you remember the episode of one foot in the grave where Victor puts the phone down on Mrs warboys warbling on and then picks it up about 3 minutes later— I’ve done that today with H ranting about stuff to do with his job— and it’s a frequent occurrence — I totally get you OP, I have often felt like a whipping post for his general dissatisfactions— i get why he is dissatisfied - but it does get very wearing indeed and I think kills affection

I think it's the realisation of how small I've become that's hit me hardest, his tone/body language/expression changed on Friday (when this latest mood started) and I just felt myself shrink. I've become so afraid of everything over the years, I barely leave the house these days and I'm not even sure how that happened. I have no idea how I ended up applying for that job today, I was just dipping my toe in the water by having a look and before I knew it I'd filled in the application, written a (kick-ass if I do say so myself!) covering letter and hit send

Good luck. Hope you get the job and if not then you’ve made a step in the right direction. Having something else to help you grow instead of shrinking will be the first step to reclaiming your life and not being dependent on him emotionally or financially.

The very best of luck to you @Jeremyspoke.
I'm in a similar situation, currently awaiting mediation, told stbxh I wanted to separate 3 months ago. Have literally been through the mill since then. But it will be worth it in the end . It is no life that we are living now.
Do you have kids together? Have you told your Dh you want to separate? Beware the solitary, depressed, hard done by , sad behaviour that will come , purely to make you feel guilty, sevond guess yourself. You know you are doing the right thing.
Can I just say aswell @GidgetGirl your post literally describes , so well, to a Tee what I've been living with too. And the gaslighting, oh my god the gaslighting has been the worst. Genuinely feel he has turned me into a different person.
My whole , once normal , perspective, on reasonable, rational things/people/situations has been so skewed over these long long years ... I'm finally beginning to see through all of these and getting back to myself but it is very hard. Being conditioned all these years to his view and his opinions on everything has took its toll.
But reading other people's stories here gas really helped and the advice has been great. Your not alone x

Thank you both, sorry you're going through it too Hopeful22 We have older DC (been together 25 years) and no, I haven't told him anything. Not even sure what I want myself atm, other than him to stop turning on me, but self preservation seems to be kicking in and I'm just cracking on with the things I know I need to have in place so I feel I have a choice whether to stay or not. My brain still feels scrambled, almost feel like I'm in shock or something so sorry if my posts aren't making much sense,

You're right not to say anything to him, Jeremyspoke, you'll end up being punished again. To answer your previous question about the punishments, they are usually for something normal people wouldn't even notice - you walked in front of him for a nano second, decided what you fancied for lunch without consulting him, looked at him the wrong way, there might have been nothing at all but some imagined 'crime' in his measly little head. You've injured his ego and you need to pay for that.

Very well done on applying for that job! Good luck with it

I get what you're saying about your brain being scrambled. I found that it wasn't until we had separated that I had the headspace to see quite how bad it had become. There were things that were very obvious but once I could see clearly it was all those little things that are there to make you feel like shit and keep your head so full you don't have time to think clearly. It's all designed with a clear intent on their part.

I agree with PPs, if you go for counselling don't tell him and certainly don't let him go with you. You need to start building up your self esteem and confidence. Women's Aid were brilliant for me, I can highly recommend them.

I'm still piecing things together aswell, its like a jigsaw puzzle that is taking forever to complete. I seem fixated on all the things I've missed over the last 17 years ...and when someone says something like the below. I find myself, nodding and going , YES this is exactly what I've been living with !!!
The manipulation of the truth has been very difficult to deal with , the fact he categorically denies any wrong doing and HE is in fact the one being emotionally abused by ME , has been so difficult. I've actually questioned if I am to blame because I stuck up for myself, defended myself, fought back. Its been so damaging...I just hope I can get out of this mess in one piece 🤞

@Orgasmagorical
To answer your previous question about the punishments, they are usually for something normal people wouldn't even notice - you walked in front of him for a nano second, decided what you fancied for lunch without consulting him, looked at him the wrong way, there might have been nothing at all but some imagined 'crime' in his measly little head.

The manipulation of the truth has been very difficult to deal with , the fact he categorically denies any wrong doing and HE is in fact the one being emotionally abused by ME , has been so difficult. I've actually questioned if I am to blame because I stuck up for myself, defended myself, fought back. Its been so damaging...I just hope I can get out of this mess in one piece 🤞

People who haven't been in these situations don't understand that it's nigh on impossible just to 'move on'. You have been groomed and headfucked for so long you can't just shrug it off. Are you getting help from anyone experienced in these matters? As I said in a PP, Women's Aid were amazing for me, they totally understand what you've been and are going through.

My ex also tried to tell me I was doing to him what he was doing to me. He told me I was 'almost controlling' during one of his hours long rants at me. When I questioned him about that later he just said "I have no recollection of that". That was the stock phrase to be pulled out whenever he was called up on anything. He accused me of everything he was doing, apart from the being unfaithful ...

Keep posting too, Hopeful, there are always folk here who understand

I hope you're okay, Jeremyspoke, it's horrible when the realisation of what they've been doing all these years is abuse, it's a lot to get your head round

It's his way of gaining control. He's pissed if with another aspect of his life, but doesn't have the emotional maturity to deal with it, so he takes control and belittles and is nasty and abusive to you.

Some people deal with this by cleaning, or going for a run, or talking to friends and family, unfortunately he's a selfish and abusive prick and chooses to use you as an emotional punch bag.

I hope the application results in an interview op. Once the scales fall you can't put them back

That's exactly what I think bigbaggyeyes, that he doesn't know (or maybe it's just easier not to bother) how to deal with stress so he looks for somewhere else to dump it and that's where I come in. I have explained to him that I'm then left with his stress, plus feeling unfairly attacked on top and the whole cycle just breeds resentment and bad feeling between us because I can't just shrug that off and carry on.

But yes, I can see it now and I plan to loudly call it out every time it happens, whilst also trying to regain some independence so we're both aware that I could leave if I wanted to. We'll see whether he manages to change at all quickly enough to save our marriage before I've finally hit my limit I suppose.

When you are caught up in it, it is so draining on your mental energy. "Loudly calling it out" or any other reaction requires you to be at full action stations and wound up like a spring. And your opponent switches tactics from one sentence to the next, hammering at you with those weaselly stock phrases or looks that there is no answer to.
Such a waste of life.

I can't practically go yet so the 'calling out' is more of a survival/defence strategy for while I'm stuck than any kind of long term solution. I'm going to be on full alert anyway so I might as well use it to my advantage. His kind of abuse works by being under the radar, too subtle to name because it's all about moods and undercurrents and atmospheres. But I've named it now, he knows I know he dumps his stress on me and calling it out will make it harder for him to do it without having to deal with my reaction. It doesn't fix it, that's on him and I won't hold my breath which is why I'm applying for jobs (2 more today ) so I'm not trapped when I hit my limit.

If you feel that you can't leave at the moment, as soon as he starts I'd simply say 'stop using me as your emotional punchbag, when you're ready you can come and apologise' and then walk away from him. Leave him to it until he apologises.

@Orgasmagorical
Thank you , most of my friends were beyond shocked when I told them what was really going on in my marraige...they hide it so well but it's the same here - I was told everything I said he was doing to me - I was doing to him apparently...
It's a very tough lesson to learn , those niggles and red flags I had when we first started going out 17 years ago I wish to god I had listened or paid more attention to them. I might not be in this hellhole now , but then I wouldn't have my kids.
I wish I could warn other women though about him in case someone else gets caught in his trap
How are you today @Jeremyspoke

It's a very tough lesson to learn , those niggles and red flags I had when we first started going out 17 years ago I wish to god I had listened or paid more attention to them.

Same. I ignored the first red flag because I was already hooked and also because I had grown up in a house where the man's word was law so I didn't feel I could question the quite obvious thing that happened. Then the first time my ex was violent to me we were in the middle of nowhere and I had no way of getting away safely so I stayed.

I wish I could warn other women though about him in case someone else gets caught in his trap

When I was getting help from Rape Crisis I said something along these lines and the lady said that many victims in abusive relationships feel a responsibility to stop it happening to others. The difficulty is if you say anything to potential victims you can be called bitter or the mad ex. They've really got it all covered.

His kind of abuse works by being under the radar, too subtle to name because it's all about moods and undercurrents and atmospheres.

Much of my ex's abuse was like this - so subtle, so easily deniable. Just be careful when he knows that you know, they can often ramp things up to higher levels when there's a threat to their way of life. Keep safe

I won't put myself at risk don't worry Orgasmagorical, I have solid support around me and he has too much to lose to risk stepping over the line. I actually think he's driven more by emotional immaturity than actual malice, the end result for me is the same either way of course but it does mean he's unlikely to actually hurt me. I won't give him chance anyway, I'm a smart cookie and will arrange things the safest way for me when the time comes.

I'm doing ok I think Hopeful22, he's dropped the mood and I'm doing a fair impression of normal despite the scrambled brain so things are calm and harmonious, for now. I feel detached in a way I haven't before and I don't know if that's temporary or permanent which is a bit unsettling but it's helping me focus on finding a job and giving me courage I didn't have before so I guess that can't be a bad thing. I'm starting to think about me instead of 'us' which it's just occurred to me probably means I'm closer to my limit than I realised.

You are rocking this, Jeremyspoke

@Jeremyspoke that's exactly how I feel and have felt since I made this decision- detached. He calls it emotionally checked out and has used it against me. But I think finally it has clicked in me that this is utterly the right decision to leave. I have times where the literal realisation hits me like a ton of bricks and I cry a river , but I don't know what I'm.crying for ...I think maybe it's sadness, that I've missed out on such normal love for such a long time .
And @Orgasmagorical , it sounds horrendous what you have been through. I can understand if you have been subjected to a life of a man saying , my word is law , etc ..its hard to break those ingrained notions that have been normalised.

My experience was that of a very loving normal childhood , healthy parental relationship, so I knew first hand what a normal healthy marraige looked like, I saw respect, love , friendship.

I have no idea why I chose this man and stayed with him for so long. Everything was so wrong and I knew it wasn't right. Yet I stayed and oh how I regret it. And brought 2 children into this mess. I'll probably need a lot of work on myself to get over the guilt of breaking up my family and to fully realise the extent of the abuse I endured. I am still prone to under playing it and to making excuses for his behaviour, maybe I was over reacting . Maybe it's my fault. I brought it on myself. I should have know better than to say what I said .. I fought back, I got angry. Maybe I'm abusive because I used bad language at him. He tells me I'm.abusing him, I'm controlling him, he seems so convinced of it so angry at me , he says hes scared of me ...all these things, these words....purely used to doubt my recollection of things. To doubt myself, to question myself.
I know he's wrong but I constantly have to remind myself I am right. I didn't do anything wrong. But it is so hard. The fights , arguments fade in your memory and then you are just left with the harsh reality of what is happening and everything will be different from now on... sorry don't want to hijack your post , just know how hard it is for everyone, keep strong x

How do you feel about starting your own thread, Hopeful? It sounds like you have a lot to talk through. I just want to say this though -

I'll probably need a lot of work on myself to get over the guilt of breaking up my family

I see it as you taking yourself and your children away from an abuser, you are doing a good thing. It'll obviously be better for you all now to be away from him and it'll be better for your children's futures. Your feelings are perfectly valid but I, personally, don't think you should feel guilty

Maybe it's my fault. I brought it on myself

No, no and no again. Just no.

@Orgasmagorical
Thank you. I know I feel like starting a book would be more appropriate at this stage instead of a thread 🙈
Just some of the things written here really resonated with me. I'm working on trying to drop the guilt.
Just my stbxh is viscous and spiteful, difficult and passive aggressive the list goes on and on and on ... but I'll get there, thanks for the help and kind words x

We're always here, Hopeful, you're not alone

This is going to sound silly but I'm wondering if things are all in my head. I think my marriage is similar. What kind of things does your husband say to you? Mine will sometimes say nasty things and sometimes be really huffy / condescending but always deny he has any kind of tone or underlying irritation... which leaves me wondering if it's all in my head?

That's gaslighting, Greenleaves, it's not you, it's him

I've always wondered about gaslighting too. We often have arguments about our recollections being different. I'm sure that happens sometimes but it got to the point where I started writing things down or wanting to record our conversations because our recollections were just so different. Then we'd each accuse the other of gaslighting...

For all those who are in relationships where they wonder WHY DOES HE DO THAT?.......

There is an excellent book with this title, by Lundy Bancroft.

It's available as a free PDF online. Well worth reading - really eye opening and empowering.