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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

abduction - urgent advice needed

61 replies

Bjarnum · 03/10/2021 10:27

My daughter has been struggling unaided with her baby and wants to come home for a bit to get some support. Her partner( baby father)despite staying out all night says this is abduction! She is really worried - is he right?

OP posts:
Mummyoflittledragon · 03/10/2021 11:11

Your dd as the primary carer is going to stay with her parents for a while for mental health reasons. She is not abducting her child. He sounds potentially abusive and coercive control comes now under domestic abuse and is illegal.

someonesomewhere7 · 03/10/2021 11:13

[quote ApolloandDaphne]**@Marjoriedrawers

Against the father's consent. He has parental rights too.

This is true but he can't keep her at home against her will either. If she is clear that she is not abducting the child and is merely going home for a break I don't think the police or any other authority will be concerned.[/quote]
@Marjoriedrawers He might have parental rights but unless there is a court mandated custody order in place he can't stop her from travelling with the baby. And she couldn't stop him either if he did the same. She'd absolutely be more protected by removing herself and the baby from him.

FatBettyintheCoop · 03/10/2021 11:13

@Marjoriedrawers

Against the father's consent. He has parental rights too.

Rubbish. The courts are only ever interested in the welfare of the child, they’re not concerned with maintaining a shit parent’s ‘rights’.

The mum is looking after the baby 100% of the time and feels she needs support from her family. There’s no court going to stop her moving to her mums.

spurs4ever · 03/10/2021 11:21

@Marjoriedrawers

He doesn't have parental rights. He has parental responsibility. So far from the details we have it seems he is delegating that responsibility to the Mum. Mum is well within her rights to ask her parents for help and as long as she is not restricting access then of course she can go home to get some support.

Caramellatteplease · 03/10/2021 11:22

May be just go and collect her without giving him notice?

If you have no evidence of violence please dont do this. If you know there is violence you need to do this and slam in a family court application Literally as soon as you can.

But you are very very vague, (is he or does you DD believe she has the capacity to be violent, are they actually splitting up, are you trying to do this with the long term aim of relocating her permanently nearer to you etc) so the advice you are getting could be right but could be disastrous.

What you do when fleeing domestic abuse is not as same as what you do if the relationship is dodgy and your DD needs a break.

Queenie6655 · 03/10/2021 11:27

Ok so I fled with small kids

To another part of the UK

Had no choice as he locked us in the house one day
When we got out we fled

So immediately he claimed police were on the way due to child abduction
He didn't make this call as he would have been in trouble for the attack
Later he did contact police re child abduction he was told to take it to the family courts where there was a record of extreme violence against us

If this man is abusive do not let you daughter go back
Let him take them to court where she can prove she is looking out for the welfare of the child

Canigooutyet · 03/10/2021 11:29

Of course it's not abduction. If it was every parent who had fled an abusive relationship would be fucked legally.

Caramellatteplease · 03/10/2021 11:33

they’re not concerned with maintaining a shit parent’s ‘rights’.

Many people with experience of family court have found this to be exactly what they do, whatever the rhetoric to the contrary. Children generally have a right to a relationship with both parents even if they are shit. Beside which what may be shit parenting to someone who knows might look very different presented by a smart lawyer in court.

If you are a risk of family court you need to act in a way that takes that into account. Family court is not a sprint it's a marathon. A long one that generally achieves very little but harm. Winning a few days "break" now will seem a shallow victory if a silent flit makes accusations of abduction (in the non legal sense) and parental alienation more plausible. And I've seen it.

Please be very careful. Be very clear in your own mind what you are doing, how and potential consequences positive and negative.

Canigooutyet · 03/10/2021 11:34

A d remember an abusive relationship is not just about violence but also covers coercive emotional behaviour, as well as financial abuse.
If your partner isn't around I would get a male mate to go with you to get her. I wouldn't go alone.
She could decide to come home on holiday for a few days which isn't unreasonable. I wouldn't give him any warning. Just show up when he's at work.

pog100 · 03/10/2021 11:36

@Caramellatteplease

May be just go and collect her without giving him notice?

If you have no evidence of violence please dont do this. If you know there is violence you need to do this and slam in a family court application Literally as soon as you can.

But you are very very vague, (is he or does you DD believe she has the capacity to be violent, are they actually splitting up, are you trying to do this with the long term aim of relocating her permanently nearer to you etc) so the advice you are getting could be right but could be disastrous.

What you do when fleeing domestic abuse is not as same as what you do if the relationship is dodgy and your DD needs a break.

Honestly, stop it. If a parent wants to take a child for a few days to visit grandparents it does not need the others permission. It works both ways. If it comes to separation this will only be part of a much wider set of circumstances taken into account to keep the child's best interests at heart. It is NOT abduction and is in no way illegal. The same is true for either parent though, as is often mentioned here.
diddl · 03/10/2021 11:37

" The courts are only ever interested in the welfare of the child, they’re not concerned with maintaining a shit parent’s ‘rights’."

If only that were true!

Why is there ever supervised contact?

Haffiana · 03/10/2021 13:12

@diddl

" The courts are only ever interested in the welfare of the child, they’re not concerned with maintaining a shit parent’s ‘rights’."

If only that were true!

Why is there ever supervised contact?

Because it is considered in the CHILD'S best interests to have a relationship with both parents.
Pinkbonbon · 03/10/2021 13:28

As long as she has texted him to say where she has gone (so she has written proof).

He sounds like a horrible person and it sounds like your daughter may be being abused. Encourage her to use the time she is with you to do the freedom program online. And to read up on narcissistic personality disorder. As it sounds like she might be dealing with a partner that has this or similar abusive personality.

Melanie tonight evans does good youtube videos on the subject of these ppl.

Original poster
Bjarnum · 03/10/2021 14:13

Thank you so much to all of you who have responded. She would not attempt to stop contact between him and the baby. He can be an arse when drunk but so far as we know has not been violent. When sober he is fine with baby - but he clearly feels that our DD should be doing all the work with baby all of the time. He feels it's his right to go out drinking himself into incontinent oblivion because he is working at a stressful well paid job. They are not married.
So, to sum up the advice: she should text him - after she has left - to let him know she is coming home for a visit to give herself a break as he is not doing any of the baby care and she needs some support. She should get advice on her rights in case things turn ugly and should read up narcissistic personality disorder to see if it is applicable here. Hopefully they can reach some sort of understanding and a complete breakdown be avoided.

OP posts:
Pinkbonbon · 03/10/2021 14:19

Sounds about right. Or a breakaway encouraged if it is determined that he is abusive in any way (emotionally, financially or physically). Or if he intends to continue drinking himself into a place where he is unsavory to his partner.

It's key that she must not spend her life trying to placate him. Because that is no life to live.

altmember · 03/10/2021 14:31

Travelleing within the country won't be classed as abduction (assuming no court order already in place to say otherwise). And as long as she tells him that she's just going away for a few days to visit family rather than a permanent move, then the family court won't (potentially) look negatively on it in the future.

What do you mean by "wants to come home"? Where is her home - with her partner or 150 miles away with her parents?

toocold54 · 03/10/2021 14:39

No absolutely not. Lots of parents don’t live in the same home as each other. I would just be careful about her leaving and gave someone with her when she does.

toocold54 · 03/10/2021 14:42

Unless he's been awarded custody of the child in court, it's not abduction. She's also not leaving the country.

This!
Unless he has full custody? Which it doesn’t sound like he has, then she can move wherever she wants to in the UK as long as she tells him and helps to facilitate a relationship between him and the baby.

Aquamarine1029 · 03/10/2021 14:44

You should do everything possible to help your daughter get away from this abusive arsehole. Tell her to bring anything of importance with her, birth certificates, passports, etc. Hopefully, she won't go back to him.

Pinkbonbon · 03/10/2021 14:50

@Aquamarine1029

You should do everything possible to help your daughter get away from this abusive arsehole. Tell her to bring anything of importance with her, birth certificates, passports, etc. Hopefully, she won't go back to him.
That's a good point too. Make sure she takes her passport and the child's birth certificate ect with her.

Also, copies of customer service numbers and her id for any bills she pays in the house. So that if she decides not to go back, she can phone and cancel her payments and tell them she has left.

Queenie6655 · 03/10/2021 15:30

@Bjarnum

Thank you so much to all of you who have responded. She would not attempt to stop contact between him and the baby. He can be an arse when drunk but so far as we know has not been violent. When sober he is fine with baby - but he clearly feels that our DD should be doing all the work with baby all of the time. He feels it's his right to go out drinking himself into incontinent oblivion because he is working at a stressful well paid job. They are not married. So, to sum up the advice: she should text him - after she has left - to let him know she is coming home for a visit to give herself a break as he is not doing any of the baby care and she needs some support. She should get advice on her rights in case things turn ugly and should read up narcissistic personality disorder to see if it is applicable here. Hopefully they can reach some sort of understanding and a complete breakdown be avoided.
Yes and seriously consider involving woman's aid so I good record can be kept also

This doesn't sound safe for both of them

Marjoriedrawers · 03/10/2021 15:34

@PandorasMailbox

Unless he's been awarded custody of the child in court, it's not abduction. She's also not leaving the country.

She's the child's mother and has every right to take her child to visit family.

He, on the other hand, is a controlling arsehole and she should get as far away from him as possible asap.

Has she been awarded custody in a court then?
Marjoriedrawers · 03/10/2021 15:36

@toocold54

Unless he's been awarded custody of the child in court, it's not abduction. She's also not leaving the country.

This!
Unless he has full custody? Which it doesn’t sound like he has, then she can move wherever she wants to in the UK as long as she tells him and helps to facilitate a relationship between him and the baby.

Does the mother have full custody? Why are people so quick to write father's off as having no say whatsoever?
Mummyoflittledragon · 03/10/2021 15:47

@Marjoriedrawers
There is no full custody. Neither are separated at this moment in time. Your comments aren’t relevant.

pointythings · 03/10/2021 16:38

Marjoriedrawers by your logic no woman should ever be able to leave her partner, no matter how awful the situation, without a court's approval first. Fortunately real life doesn't work that way. OP is absolutely allowed to take her baby to visit family - at the moment there's no question of this being a permanent split. OP's partner isn't her custodian.

I would also want to be away from a man who regularly drank himself into incontinent oblivion - why would anyone want a child to be around that?