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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

To withdraw from toxic friendship group ?

186 replies

Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 10:08

So I'm 29, and am friends with a group of girls I met at secondary school , age. 29. Last year one of my friends , "left the group" as she felt it was toxic. She said she felt that both of us were just there to make the others feel better about their own lives , and I'm beginning to agree.

The queen bee married her childhood sweetheart at 22. At the time , because k wasn't in a long term relationship , I had a few more sexual partners than her. She'd regularly make comments to imply I was a slag, e.g. "I'm sorry, but your not discarded vagina is just not as sacred as ours."

However the marriage broke down when she was 26, ( she works at a university , she cheated on him with one of her 19 year old undergraduate students). Immediately after the marriage broke down, she signed up to dating sites and was having multiple sexual encounters, ( including threesomes), with men she met off the internet. She never apologised for repeatedly calling/ implying I was a slut previously, and instead went on to judging and making harsh comments about people she felt hadn't had enough sexual partners , ( she's now changed from judging people she feels have too much sex, to judging people who have to little sex).

Despite this , I was supportive of her during the time of her marriage breakdown. She'd ring multiple times a day, and I was supportive. Yet we went out for a meal with another girl in the group a few weeks later, and she rveeted back to openly mocking me for sleeping with more people than she had in front of the other girl, ( at this point, she had actually slept with many more people than I had, but didn't want the other girl to know this). I didn't say anything to reveal she had been having threesomes / sleeping with more men, as I didn't want to embarrass her.

She regularly gives the , ( unasked for) opinion that Lucy* , ( another girl in the group), "doesn't know how to be single" and berates her for getting together with her new boyfriend too quickly after s relationship break up. Despite this , she was signed up to online dating sites within days of her own marriage breaking down....

She regularly mocks me and Lucy for making "bad choices in relationships" but skirts over the fact her first husband had a lot of issues, ( he'd regularly shout racist abuse out the car windows at other drivers, would regularly shout "j , get the f out if my chair, I want to sit next to my f* wife" at group meals), and that she then dated on her undergraduate students.

She regularly makes comments about Lucy's tattoos being badly drawn and tacky, despite the fact she herself has tattoos.

The queen bee told her new boyfriend I had previously been raped, and he casually brought this up in conversation the first time we went out for lunch together, which left me feeling awkward. He regularly gives pseudo diagnosis's to members of the group , ( one evening he repeatedly told me I must be autistic cos I didn't look people directly in the eye, and refused to listen despite the fact I wa getting tearful and trying to explain I have a diagnosed visual impairment that makes that difficult). He also tells anyone that will listen that Lucy* had classic abandonment issues due to the fact her parents immigrated abroad when Lucy was 19.

We also have a mutual aquantance who has a mild learning disability, ( still functioning enough to work, drive , live independently etc). She has recently announced an engagement to a lovely man, ( I have met him), and instead of saying congratulations, all they can do is laugh and mock cos she had a broken engagement to someone else four years previously.
Am I right to just slowly stop bothering with the group ?

OP posts:
Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 11:46

@Noshowwithoutpunch

You are right to distance yourself from them. They sound absolutely awful. I'd have stopped seeing Lucy after she started implying I was a slag. What do you say when she talks about the badly drawn tattoos and the girl who has recently got engaged? Do you join in or sit quietly? They're toxic and not friends at all. People will also start ( if they don't already) thinking that as part of the group you are just like them.
Sorry , just to clarify, Lucy is not the queen bee but another group member who is also regularly criticised.

Both Lucy and the queen bee have tattoos, ( I don't have any tatoos), but the queen bee regularly makes comments about Lucy's tattoos being badly drawn and tacky.

Lucy is also criticised . The queen bee and her new boyfriend would tell anyone that would listen that Lucy, "didn't know how to be single" as they believed Lucy got together with her new boyfriend too quickly after she broke up with her former boyfriend. The queen bee's boyfriend then chimed into say that "Lucy must have abandonment issues as her parents immigrated to Canada when she was 19." Lucy actually seems pretty well adjusted and has a good relationship with her parents ,( obviously long distance as they immigrated), but the queen bee's new boyfriend likes to diagnose psychological malfunctions in me and Lucy regularly .

Lucy's new boyfriend had some physical medical problems that made getting / maintaining an errection difficult , the queen bee found out about this after pressing Lucy for details of her sex life and then went on to tell everyone, and said that Lucy's boyfriend was being "controlling" by being upset this was being publicly discussed.

I don't particularly mind the queen bee telling her new boyfriend about my (historic) rape, but think it was rude and uneecessary of him to bring up "so when you got raped..." The first time I met him, ( especially as it was in a public restaurant).

The queen bee's new boyfriend also has some weird opinions about relationships, and basically criticises anyone who hasn't followed exactly the same path in life as him. He shares his unwanted opinions on a regular basis. I have a good friend, ( who is not in the group), who at 23, was excitedly throwing a baby shower for a planned an wanted pregnancy , ( she lived with her partner and worked as a full time NHS nurse, so was a very stable situation to bring a child into). However the queen bee's boyfriend kept saying I should "persuade her to have an abortion" due to the lower life chances of babies born to mother's under 25, ( obviously I did not try to persuade my friend to abort her wanted baby, and she's now gone on to have a healthy baby boy).

He kept calling Lucy's new boyfriend " a freak" as he hadn't had any serious relationship before he got together with Lucy, ( he's 28). When actually, Lucy's new boyfriend seems like a really nice guy , just very shy.

He heard I was going to a colleagues engagement party, ( colleague is 25 and his fiance 21), and demanded to know how old they were. When I told them the ages, he went in and on about how my colleague , "must be controlling and trying to trap a younger woman into marriage" even though I know the couple involved and know that's not the case.

OP posts:
ElspethFlashman · 30/09/2021 11:48

I'd have fucked out of that friendship years ago tbh.

5zeds · 30/09/2021 11:53

Run

Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 11:54

And as a final frustration , despite the previous slut shaming, the queen bee's new boyfriend likes to bring up on a regular basis that he has, ( allegedly, according to him), regularly slept with over 100 women . He claims to be "ashamed " , of this, but brings it up continuously, ( e.g. even when we were on a day out round a local castle , he manages to drop it into conversation).

As my other friend left the group , the group now consists of the queen bee and her new boyfriend, Aleesha and her husband * ( also very critical of everyone and everything), Tom, ( single gay guy who goes along with everything the queen bee and Aleesha says, although they do criticise him as well), myself, ( frequently criticized), Lucy , ( frequently criticized) , and Adam and his new girlfriend Tina, ( nice people, also frequently criticized , although may not be in the group much longer as the queen bee, QB's boyfriend and Aleesha find Adam's new girlfriend annoying and have banned her from future events, Adam although a long term member of the group is loyal to his new girlfriend).

My other friend, Sally* was also a member of the group but also felt she was frequently criticised / picked on to make the queen bee, Aleesha and Tom feel better, and so she left and now only stays in touch with me and Lucy

OP posts:
Ihaventgottimeforthis · 30/09/2021 12:00

She's a nasty person who associates with other nasty people, no friend to you and will be no loss.

It is entirely possible to maintain independent relationships with other people from that group who you wish to stay in contact with.

'I've grown out of this group, all the best everyone'

Then start fostering the friendships that you really value.

Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 12:13

Just to provide context r.e. the misdiagnosis from the queen bee's new boyfriend of ASD, he works in catering so has no medical/ counselling/ psychological qualifications. He kept saying to me , "you must be autistic" and when I got upset he kept saying , "that proves you must be autistic, people only get upset about what they know is true," and, finally, "if you really didn't think this was true you'd make a GP appointment and get assessed and prove me wrong." My other friend, ( not in the group), actually works with autistic adults as a full time job, and said it was rubbish and I didn't show any of the traits of autism and she's actually trained in it.

I tried to text him afterwards and explain to him why he'd upset me/ I'd found it rude, but the Queen Bee fed back to me they'd laughed about the text and found it "the most autistic text ever." To add a following bit of context , we were at his house when he diagnosed me, and despite the fact I was obviously getting upset he continued to play a drum solo on his drum kit whilst listing more and more reasons why I must be autistic.

OP posts:
JamieNorthlife · 30/09/2021 12:16

Your queen bee only has the power you give her.

ElspethFlashman · 30/09/2021 12:19

Make a new group with friend who left.

Add Adam, Tina and Lucy.

Organise a super-casual lunch for just those people (because it's super casual right? No need for a big night out with everyone!) and use it as the reason for the new WA group. "Hi guys, just confirming Cafe Nero at 12?" being the opener or whatever. Then after the lunch you start sharing photos of you guys at it that you took and see if it takes off.

PearLime · 30/09/2021 12:25

@Judygiraffe

Just to provide context r.e. the misdiagnosis from the queen bee's new boyfriend of ASD, he works in catering so has no medical/ counselling/ psychological qualifications. He kept saying to me , "you must be autistic" and when I got upset he kept saying , "that proves you must be autistic, people only get upset about what they know is true," and, finally, "if you really didn't think this was true you'd make a GP appointment and get assessed and prove me wrong." My other friend, ( not in the group), actually works with autistic adults as a full time job, and said it was rubbish and I didn't show any of the traits of autism and she's actually trained in it.

I tried to text him afterwards and explain to him why he'd upset me/ I'd found it rude, but the Queen Bee fed back to me they'd laughed about the text and found it "the most autistic text ever." To add a following bit of context , we were at his house when he diagnosed me, and despite the fact I was obviously getting upset he continued to play a drum solo on his drum kit whilst listing more and more reasons why I must be autistic.

Get this fucking cow out of your life!!

Who the fuck does she think she is!

I'm getting so annoyed on your behalf.

Block her on everything!!!

tootiredtospeak · 30/09/2021 12:25

Call her out if you can on the group the others might be desperate for someone to stand up to her. Then leave and block.

SpiderinaWingMirror · 30/09/2021 12:25

Nobody needs this.
I have walked for far less.

DrinkingWishingSmokingHoping · 30/09/2021 12:29

I think that the pertinent question, in all of this, is why you have remained in this ‘friendship’ group for so long, @Judygiraffe?

If my daughter were in this sort of situation, I’d wonder where the fuck I’d gone wrong in raising someone to have such low self esteem that she stayed ‘friends’ with somebody like the picture you’ve painted here.

DrinkingWishingSmokingHoping · 30/09/2021 12:30

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit

Race, disability, tattoos,sexual partners, blimey what a jackpot.
Indeed!
Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 12:40

The final annoyance, ( sorry I'm just venting now).

Aleesha, ( the queen bee's right hand woman), works for the local council, ( customer service department), and when I made an off hand comment about the council being money grabbing, ( within the context of a council tax dispute) ,Aleesha texted me saying she was so upset and personally offended that I'd "insulted," her employer and demanded an apology. I did apologise to keep the peace, but just thought , Aleesha never apologised for anything she does, ( she revealed an early Miscarriage of mine to someone I didn't know well and it brought up some pretty bad memories). When I said I was hurt she refused to apologise.

I also dislike the fact that Aleesha abuses her access to council systems. The queen bee and Aleesha were annoyed that a mutual aquantance from school, ( we've not been in touch with him since we left school, but they found out via Facebook), had children at younger than the "average middle class age," and bitched about it constantly, ( he works hard to support both kids and is a single dad to them due to their mothers poor health, and seems devoted to them). Aleesha used her access to council database systems to check whether he was claiming housing benefit/ living in soical housing , found out he was, and then broadcast this to everyone, ( despite this presumably being a GDPR breech as she had no professional/ legitimate reason to check).

OP posts:
JamieNorthlife · 30/09/2021 12:41

@Ihopeyourcakeisshit, we can do Bingo!!!

Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 12:42

@DrinkingWishingSmokingHoping

I think that the pertinent question, in all of this, is why you have remained in this ‘friendship’ group for so long, *@Judygiraffe*?

If my daughter were in this sort of situation, I’d wonder where the fuck I’d gone wrong in raising someone to have such low self esteem that she stayed ‘friends’ with somebody like the picture you’ve painted here.

Unfortunately I do have very low self esteem , there are multiple reasons for this but I don't believe this friendship group had helped which is why I'm thinking strongly of withdrawing.
OP posts:
JamieNorthlife · 30/09/2021 12:43

Op, don't apologise for needing to vent. You have been through a lot and need to unpick what's going on to help you move on to heathy relationships.

Can you check the name you used its not her real name.

Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 12:43

[quote JamieNorthlife]@Ihopeyourcakeisshit, we can do Bingo!!![/quote]
Sorry, I don't know what that's meant to mean ? Bingo with what .

OP posts:
youvegottenminuteslynn · 30/09/2021 12:44

Don't slowly withdraw, completely withdraw.

They aren't your friends, they are people you've known a long time who bully you. That's it.

Leave them to it. If they want to be horrible and toxic, let them do it to each other.

I would rather have no friends than have bullies around me.

Chloemol · 30/09/2021 12:47

Leave the group

But take Lucy with you, and your other friend. Just drop Queen Bee and he4 new boyfriend

Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 12:49

@JamieNorthlife

Op, don't apologise for needing to vent. You have been through a lot and need to unpick what's going on to help you move on to heathy relationships.

Can you check the name you used its not her real name.

No all the names are pseudonyms, ( I'm not called Judygiraffe for starters lol Wink).

I haven't actually used any pseudonyms for queen bee and her new boyfriend, but regarding the other group members Lucy, Aleesha, Tom, Adam, Tina and Sally, ( the group member who walked out over a year ago), are all pseudonyms, as however annoyed I am, I don't think it would be fair to put their real names online.

Just to clarify with the racism, whilst I'm extremely annoyed at the group, they aren't actually racist.

It's more that the queen bee's ex husband was very racist, ( regularly shouting racist remarks at other drivers , including the N word), and making some horrible comments about Nelson Mandela in the immediate aftermath of his death. TBF , queen bee and her new boyfriend aren't actually racist themselves .
But my point is, the queen bee is so critical of everyone else's relationships , she forgets she was married to a massive racist ( who was also very rude /hurtful to me generally), and then cheated on him with one of her undergraduate students, causing the breakdown of their marriage.

Despite all this, we get regular lecture from her about how we're rubbish at relationships and should follow her example. ...

OP posts:
Lunificent · 30/09/2021 12:49

OP- no need to tell us more. Your first paragraph was already enough.
Get rid immediately.

Maunderingdrunkenly · 30/09/2021 12:59

They sound fucking awful and i hope that writing it down has drummed it home how mad it all is.

But stop engaging with them they can’t be reasoned with. They clearly enjoy winding you/anyone up and that’s the main purpose of you being there, for them, to provide easy kills.
Leave the group and block, and weather the immediate storm. Responding in any way will be providing them with ammo, so don’t. Calling them out will serve no purpose.

If you stay friends with the nicer ones make sure that the focus of the group is friendship and fun and not a bitching focus group about the others, that will only keep you in the mire.

Your post does read a touch like ‘they’re awful and im virtuous’ but I’m slightly questioning your judgement/martyr complex in staying around?

Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 12:59

@Lunificent

OP- no need to tell us more. Your first paragraph was already enough. Get rid immediately.
I think it's time , unfortunately. I do feel off about it as we have been "close" friends since we all met age. 11 at the start of high school, but it's just not fun anymore ...

I feel I am just there to be criticised and picked on to make the queen bee and Aleesha feel better, and it's only now I'm older I see how hypocrotical it all is.

The queen bee criticises Lucy/ me for moving on too quickly after short relationships ended, but has threesomes within days of her marriage breaking down.

  • She calls me a slut, but yet cheats on her own husband with one of her undergraduate students, despite this being against the code of conduct of her employer,( I've never cheated on anyone...)
-They moan about our mutual aquantance legitimately and legally claiming housing benefit to support his children, but the QB's boyfriend justifies how he is commiting actual benefit fraud, ( he moved in with the Queen Bee but told universal credit she was his new flatmate, so he could continue his claim as the Queen bee's own earnings would have caused his claim to be stopped had he declared they were in a relationship as opposed to just a change of address). -Aleesha demands apologies for petty shit, but never apologised for anything.

It's just all hypocritical and horrible.

OP posts:
Judygiraffe · 30/09/2021 13:01

@Maunderingdrunkenly

They sound fucking awful and i hope that writing it down has drummed it home how mad it all is.

But stop engaging with them they can’t be reasoned with. They clearly enjoy winding you/anyone up and that’s the main purpose of you being there, for them, to provide easy kills.
Leave the group and block, and weather the immediate storm. Responding in any way will be providing them with ammo, so don’t. Calling them out will serve no purpose.

If you stay friends with the nicer ones make sure that the focus of the group is friendship and fun and not a bitching focus group about the others, that will only keep you in the mire.

Your post does read a touch like ‘they’re awful and im virtuous’ but I’m slightly questioning your judgement/martyr complex in staying around?

No I don't think I'm virtuous at all. I had very low self esteem and for a long time believed I was dirty/ ugly/ a slag cos of what the group said. For a long time I felt they were better than me and I'm only now opening my eyes up to how mad it is.
OP posts: