Can’t disagree with husband

[twoandeights]

I really need some advice. I’m having trouble with my husband and need to know what steps to take. We’re at the point that he’s throwing tantrums and shouting every time we disagree over anything because I’m “telling him he’s wrong”. He seems to have a huge chip on his shoulder about me disagreeing with him. I can say “that’s not my recollection of what happened” or “my opinion is different” and it leads to him ignoring me until I apologise. He is on tenterhooks and the slightest hint of me telling him he’s wrong sends him into a sulk. It’s becoming incredibly hard to live with and I don’t know what to do. Surely a disagreement is people having different opinions or it wouldn’t be a disagreement. It feels as if he just wants me to agree with him all the time! Has anyone else been through this? How did you resolve it?

It's not too late. I ended my marriage when I was 49. My husband died before divorce proceedings completed when I was 50. I'm now 53, have raised two amazing teenagers and taken on a foster son, I have a job, a home, cats and a life. No man, not actively interested, but open to things happening as they will. Life is good. You can have that too.

My ex was like this and we split when I was 49, I wish I had left sooner.
We rowed constantly and it was always because he couldn't accept that I had different opinions about anything and he had to be rihgt.
I think that he didn't like me, that he just got into the habit of blaming me for everything and scapegoating me and his coaping strategy for life was just to blame me for everything and I had had enough.

Most women cannot afford, either
materially or psychologically, to recognize that whatever burnt offerings of obedience they bring to beg protection will not appease
the angry little gods around them

@LunaAndHerMoonDragons

It's a completely alien concept to me. I can't understand why he'd prefer we both lose rather than compromising

Because the matter of the discussion isn't his objective. Winning is his objective. Your whole argument is based on what everybody gets if each person eases off a little bit on winning (ie makes a compromise), but his goal is to not ease off on winning. He doesn't care what it's about. And I'll bet he's the same whether it's about whether to have fish or casserole for tea as he is about whether or not to get a divorce. His way or the highway.

It's like marriage is a zero sum game to men like this

And women like this. Yes, it's exactly that. If he's right, you have to be wrong, and vice versa.

Another book to read is "the verbally abusive relationship, Patricia Evans. It explains that the dynamic is based around the need for power and to win. The issues are not about vegetables (as you and he knows) BUT you asserting yourself.

He doesn't want a mutually beneficial relationship. That's the hardest thing I found to cope with because we could have had such a great life HAD he been able to accept I was deserving of equality. His mentality was "control or be controlled"

I'm sure he can be nice at times, that's because he chooses to be reasonable, equally he chooses to be unreasonable perhaps in relation to his mood, bad day at work, you appearing too confident. In reflection I realise Ex would become hostile if he thought I looked good or was too happy. The triggers are not manageable as they will change

Quite simply there is nothing rational about his toxicity and a healthy mind can't relate to it. I am now divorced and felt exactly like you. It is exhausting dealing with and until you are out of it, you don't realise how draining it it.

My lightbulb moment was when he involved the children and it was crystal clear that I was the target of his abuse. Outside the home he was charm personified.

There are deep psychological reasons why people act like this and I don't believe counselling is possible as from my experience his thought processes where too ingrained.

I persuaded Ex to go to counselling as he had an abusive childhood but he just used the sessions to confirm his victim status. If anything it made it much worse as made him realise he would have to give up complete control to stay married. At that stage he started to look around for my replacement.

My advice, prepare secretly if you leave. Don't assume he will be amicable leaving is the ultimate loss of control so they often punish by making separation very difficult. In my case it was through finances and court for residency.

From what I can gather and the little I remember my mother was like that @TheFoundations. She did a lot of damage in the short time she had us.

@Fireflygal *Another book to read is "the verbally abusive relationship, Patricia Evans. It explains that the dynamic is based around the need for power and to win. The issues are not about vegetables (as you and he knows) BUT you asserting yourself.

He doesn't want a mutually beneficial relationship. That's the hardest thing I found to cope with because we could have had such a great life HAD he been able to accept I was deserving of equality. His mentality was "control or be controlled"*
H does it over the most petty things and I've never really thought of it as control because mostly it's things that don't feel big enough to fight over. I've always thought of it as him hating even the least bit of criticism, but that makes sense that it's about me being assertive even in the most minor ways. I've found myself spending ages trying to phrase the smallest things correctly, so I won't piss him off. Like a few weeks ago he wrecked 2 of my good cloths cleaning up really dirty grease, all I said was 'next time could you please use the cleaning cloths' and reminded him where they are. That afternoon and the next he sat in his office playing computer games while I was struggling with our Autistic boys meltdowns and trying to homeschool three SEN DC. He doesn't usually play computer games all afternoon. Then the next time he needed a clean something he demanded I do it because he'd do it wrong. I was so neutral about it, I didn't blame, I was so polite and that was the end result.

I spent so long thinking I was doing something wrong for him to not understand, because WTF wouldn't you just go, "Sorry I forgot where the cleaning cloths were I'll use those next time", because that's what any reasonable person would do. I couldn't get my head around the fact that the person I loved would punish me because I made a small completely reasonable polite, non blaming request. There's other issues to, but it's the little things that have really puzzled me because they'd cost him so little to do and yet he still found them completely unreasonable. I really thought that was my failure, if I just tried hard enough, found the right way to tell him.....

@LunaAndHerMoonDragons,

next time could you please use the cleaning cloths' and reminded him where they are

To an abusive man that statement is challenging him. A "normal" person struggles to relate to it but this is where acceptance has to come in. You don't have to understand it, just know that a benign statement will trigger his sense of control. If he adheres to your "demand" then his position as top dog is challenged since you get to decide what cloths are used. In his mind he has to submit to you because you decided not him. It's even worse if you said it infront of others as now he has been publicly controlled/told off.

Usually this disordered thinking comes from childhood abuse, typically a dominant parent who refuses to allow their child to assert themselves. I believe neural pathways are altered so it isn't an easy fix and it seems to affect men disproportionately, possibly because of society's conditioning.

The abusive nature kicks in once there is a power shift, perhaps following marriage or when the woman is stepping back from her career due to childcare or if a house move has made the woman more isolated. In my case it was a combination of all 3.

Sorry for all my long posts OP 🤦. What do you feel it is it too late for @twoandeights ? It's not too late to live a more peaceful life without him. I wouldn't think it was too late to find a good relationship after you've spent some time healing and rebuilding your boundaries and self esteem. Several PPs have posted about friends and family that met someone later in life. If you want to retrain or travel or build your career or buy a property you may well find you have more options and more time than you think. I don't know if it's whether you want DC if it's biologically too late. There's some really great people on MN who have been through all sorts and could possibly help if you're happy to share more about what you feel it's too late for.

@twoandeights

I really need some advice. I’m having trouble with my husband and need to know what steps to take. We’re at the point that he’s throwing tantrums and shouting every time we disagree over anything because I’m “telling him he’s wrong”. He seems to have a huge chip on his shoulder about me disagreeing with him. I can say “that’s not my recollection of what happened” or “my opinion is different” and it leads to him ignoring me until I apologise. He is on tenterhooks and the slightest hint of me telling him he’s wrong sends him into a sulk. It’s becoming incredibly hard to live with and I don’t know what to do. Surely a disagreement is people having different opinions or it wouldn’t be a disagreement. It feels as if he just wants me to agree with him all the time! Has anyone else been through this? How did you resolve it?

Turning this on it's head it slightly looks to me as if you are the one holding all the cards here OP. Do you ever agree with him on anything? It can be wearing to have someone disagree with everything you say. In fact it is a form of abuse. My husband did this. We could never have a decent conversation because he disagreed with me all of the time. I used to think I was a bad person and going nuts when it was him all of the time. A neat trick.

It's never too late.

You'll never win an argument with someone like this. Just walk away and refuse to engage with it, while you're making solid plans to get the hell away from him.

Anordinary mum I wonder whether the OPs DH is feling suicidal because she is the abuser? Or she is, as she has said, because she is being abused.

All abusers think they are the victim, which puts the actual victim in a state of constant confusion and panic. So the victim blaming is less than helpful.

@crackofdoom

I genuinely don’t think there’s anything you can do in this situation other than end the relationship.

Why does he do that? Well, there’s a book of that very name by Lundy Bancroft, and it’s very enlightening. But, in short, it’s because he can. If he grinds you down enough, he’s hoping that he will get everything- everything in your relationship his own way, and that you will exist only to service his needs. Your children are simply collateral damage, to him.

This!! 👏🏼

@wewereliars

Anordinary mum I wonder whether the OPs DH is feling suicidal because she is the abuser? Or she is, as she has said, because she is being abused.

All abusers think they are the victim, which puts the actual victim in a state of constant confusion and panic. So the victim blaming is less than helpful.

Not victim blaming at all. Offering a different perspective is not blaming anyone.

Haven't read all the responses but it looks like you are getting very good advice.

I put up with this kind of thing for 20 years. In the end I became unable to think for myself because my judgement had been totally pushed out of wack. I would feel guilty for watching a TV program they didn't like (would have to do it in secret), or I would be mocked for having a hobby. Being told to vote like they vote, dress like they dress, eat what they eat, all because its not worth the sulking or the arguments.

Its because if I had a different perspective, experience or liking that means I am insulting their perspective, experience or liking. That threatens their control, so they regain control through passive aggression or dominance. Its exhausting to us but completely justifiable to them.

It is costing me a fortune in therapy.

[quote twoandeights]@Walkingwounded it’s been 10 years. It’s already too late. I’m too old to start again. I’m spent. The only thing I can hope for is a peaceful life on my own. There’s nothing actually left for me. I left it too late. If I’d got out ten years ago I would have stood a chance and had the energy and not had to cope with Covid restrictions etc I just need to get to the point where I don’t feel like actually chucking myself in front of a train every day. That would be nice.[/quote]
I left it too late. If I’d got out ten years ago I would have stood a chance and had the energy and not had to cope with Covid restrictions etc I just need to get to the point where I don’t feel like actually chucking myself in front of a train every day.

I was once where you are now. It'll take you a while to find your feet but long term you will be fine. Never give up or think it's too late. It really isn't. I left my abusive ex when my DC were tiny. Now married to an amazing man who is the polar opposite to my ex.

I think it being control makes perfect sense and I'm not interested in understanding him anymore, and I get he does it because he's repeating learnt pattern or he gets something from it, it just feels really stupid to act this way and biting of your nose to spite your facep

Not victim blaming at all. Offering a different perspective is not blaming anyone.

Don't be so disingenuous. Your "different perspective" is based entirely on blaming the op based on projecting your own situation. Everything you said was blaming her in order to validate how you feel about your own life.

@ftw163532

Not victim blaming at all. Offering a different perspective is not blaming anyone.

Don't be so disingenuous. Your "different perspective" is based entirely on blaming the op based on projecting your own situation. Everything you said was blaming her in order to validate how you feel about your own life.

Absolute tosh.

He’s doing this because he’s an abusive controlling arsehole. Don’t base your future on the sunken costs fallacy. You have many years left, do you really want to stay in this situation?

Been there, and you can change it a bit for the better.

If you can't get out of the marriage very soon, at least make a plan to do it.
You're already in the right track.

Change your attitude, when he gets angry go super calm, when he gives you the silent treatment, enjoy the silence!! He'll eventually stop if he sees he's not able to control you that way. Unfortunately, he will probably come up with other ways to control and abuse you.

Focus on yourself, your career, get busy with your kids and yourself, stop giving him headspace cause all he will do is suck the energy that you can use elsewhere. Don't let him do that. Improve your life and dump the loser.

@Anordinarymum thanks for your perspective but let me give you an example so you understand. Driving. He drives I’d better not comment even if he is breaking the speed limit and up someone bum, swearing and cussing, with our kids in the car. Sometimes I can’t bear it. Then I say “can you please slow down” because I’m scared and helpless and my kids are at risk and hearing this unnecessary foul language…and I get a furious reaction because he’s in control, he’s driving. Once when he was screaming at other drivers on the motorway I said please stop and he screamed at me to shut the fuck up. So am I not entitled to stand my ground and disagree? That then resulted in it being my fault and a weekend of cold shouldering and being just shit because if I’d kept my mouth shut and not disagreed with him then it would have just been ok right? But why should I have to sit there like a wet lemon in those circumstances? I’m a strong woman with her own mind and I have a right to protect mine and my kids safety and call him out on his behaviour? Don’t I?

Stop trying to figure him out. The guy is an A grade asshole and you would be better off focusing on getting finances in order, turning to supportive friends and leaving him.

He treats you wish total disdain and staying with him is only putting off the inevitable. The longer you stay the more he will erode your self worth and make you question your sanity.

[quote twoandeights]@Anordinarymum thanks for your perspective but let me give you an example so you understand. Driving. He drives I’d better not comment even if he is breaking the speed limit and up someone bum, swearing and cussing, with our kids in the car. Sometimes I can’t bear it. Then I say “can you please slow down” because I’m scared and helpless and my kids are at risk and hearing this unnecessary foul language…and I get a furious reaction because he’s in control, he’s driving. Once when he was screaming at other drivers on the motorway I said please stop and he screamed at me to shut the fuck up. So am I not entitled to stand my ground and disagree? That then resulted in it being my fault and a weekend of cold shouldering and being just shit because if I’d kept my mouth shut and not disagreed with him then it would have just been ok right? But why should I have to sit there like a wet lemon in those circumstances? I’m a strong woman with her own mind and I have a right to protect mine and my kids safety and call him out on his behaviour? Don’t I?[/quote]
Thanks for explaining. I think you need to split from him. I think you should be apart for the sake of your children