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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Another gaslighting question

51 replies

19Bears · 15/09/2021 13:11

Sorry if this has been asked a lot of times before, but I never quite understand it. I'll try to describe something that happened the other night, and can anyone please tell me if this is gaslighting or not.

Quick background (although I've posted many times about this) - no sex for 10 years, pretty much separate lives in that I do all the parenting and go to work whereas he works and then that's it for the day, had the talk with him but he continues to bury his head in the sand in order to keep the family together.

Anyway, he goes to see bands a lot, usually by himself, locally and further away which sometimes takes him away from home for a whole day and night. I don't mind as I am happier just me and the dc at home, although have become resentful that he has all the freedom to do this and I work around it. He told me last week that he had two tickets to see a band we both like, but I instantly felt that I didn't want to go. One reason that I'm still not keen on being in a crowd in an enclosed space, and the other that I plain don't want to go out with him. So, I worried about telling him all weekend, and finally told him on Monday night that I didn't want to go because of my concerns about covid. But before this even happened, he made me miss my pilates class as he was late in from work, hadn't phoned to say he'd be late which might have allowed me to leave the DCs in on their own for ten minutes (they're big enough) and turned it round on me saying it was my fault as I should have phoned him. For one thing, he almost never has his phone on anyway, and another thing he wasn't apologetic in the slightest. It's not a massive problem to have missed my class, but if ever he needs me home by a certain time so he can go out, he's literally waiting on the doorstep. But still I thought, shit, is this my fault?

So then he asked if my mum could come and look after dcs while we went out to this gig, and I told him I really didn't feel like going (knowing full well he'd go on his own, I wasn't stopping him) and he really kicked off, saying I was unreasonable, ungrateful and selfish. He said I was being ridiculous about covid, and went on so much about it I gave in and said I'd go. Then he said "don't come just to do me a favour, forget it."
It made me think maybe I am being unreasonable to have concerns about covid, we're both double jabbed, as is everyone who would be at the gig, so I felt all churned up as if I'd created a big fight, and by this time our youngest was crying. Then he went on to call me ungrateful again because the George Forman grill he bought me for my birthday is still in its box...... I said there is nowhere to put it and I won't even use it anyway. He's brought this up several times. So this time I answered back saying I go out of my way to get him presents I know he will like, but this was a randomly chosen last minute thing from the nearest sale shelf in the entrance to Sainsburys. But still he maintains I should be happy with it, and I think....should I?

So, I took the youngest upstairs to get away, the eldest followed us up a few minutes later and we just played a game together while he sulked on his own downstairs.

I had to go down again and he followed me to the kitchen with a new rant about my running. "You've never ONCE asked me to go for a run with you! Does it not enter your brain that I might like to come with you?! Again, selfish!" So I told him, no, I don't want him to come, I like to get away on my own. He just didn't get it. And again I thought, am I being horrible wanting to run on my own? I literally took up running to get away from him. Does he not realise???

So now there's an awful atmosphere in the house because I dared once to say no. He makes me feel like I have to back down all the time, but I want to say to him, "what you're doing is gaslighting me and it's not fair." Am I right to say that? Sorry if a bit long and confusing x

OP posts:
RavingAnnie · 15/09/2021 13:26

It doesn't sound like gaslighting. He's not trying to tell you that things haven't happened the way you think they happened and mess with your head (that doesn't come across in your post anyway). He's just angry that you won't come to the gig and thinks your excuse of covid is not valid (which is a valid viewpoint given the points you yourself mention so perhaps it is an excuse and you just don't want to go with him?).

It sounds more from your post that you don't like him anymore and don't want to spend any time with him and that you are arguing which is horrible and unpleasant. It sounds like you need to split. You don't need his consent to do that so his "burying his head in the sand" may make things more difficult but if you want to split, you need to be insistent and take practical steps to make that happen.

discombobulatedonion · 15/09/2021 13:37

It's not gaslighting but it doesn't seem like a healthy relationship in any other aspect either. There seems to be no communication, and you sound like you are on the edge of despising him. I'm sorry, OP. I wish I had more advice x

Akire · 15/09/2021 13:44

Not gas lighting just horrid confrontation. I’m confused reading your relationship though. Have you split up? Or as far as he’s concerned you are still a couple even though no sex or wanting spend any time together and him not doing anything help with kids?

Do you want stay together? In which case no wonder he’s asking for dates or going out together. But if you don’t and it’s your right say enough is enough I can’t stand you any more, then you need be clear it’s over. It feels like your happy be house mates and single parents and he’s clueless to this and getting angry when you don’t want do anything.

Either way sounds miserable way to live, no one should live like that

Hobbes8 · 15/09/2021 13:47

It’s just old fashioned bullying rather than gaslighting. He sounds like an arsehole.

youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/09/2021 14:01

Doesn't sound like gaslighting but it sounds like a dysfunctional, unhappy relationship in which he bullies you and makes you sad.

Isn't that enough to leave him?!

category12 · 15/09/2021 14:05

Why are you together at all? What do you get out of being in this relationship?

TheHouseIsOnFire · 15/09/2021 14:07

This relationship is setting an horrendous example to your DCs.

It’s over. Just pull the plaster off and split up. Show your DC that you can both be happy and loving parents separately. Potentially one or both of you may meet someone whom you actually like, and want to spend time with/have sex with. The example your kids are seeing here will be the model they build their future marriages on. Is this what you want for them? Is it what you want for yourself and what your H deserves?

It comes across to me that he’s trying to find ways to spend time with you and you’re giving out excuse after excuse not to. Whose decision is the no sex for 10 years? Are either of you trying here? I’ve heard it said that it’s difficult to hate someone you’re having regular sex with. It’s the glue that holds a marriage together through the rough times. Without it you’re just flat mates and pretty unfriendly ones at that.

Please do the whole family a favour and either split up or sort this mess out so that you can all live in some sort of happiness. This sounds soul destroying.

LemonTT · 15/09/2021 14:17

Not gaslighting. You are just in a bad marriage which is bubbling up into nasty and petty arguments. Your children will be old enough to be impacted by the dysfunction.

Time to take control and split up. You will all be happier.

Nothing and nobody will make the marriage work. In the meantime your children will be suffering.

ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 15/09/2021 14:22

@Hobbes8

It’s just old fashioned bullying rather than gaslighting. He sounds like an arsehole.
This, and manchildism.

Not ok for you to miss your pilates class because he CBA phoning or getting back on time.

Why are your needs nowhere on his list of priorities?

Billandben444 · 15/09/2021 14:23

Why lie to him about the gig and blame it on covid? Why didn't you just tell him the truth? He's trying, in a cack-handed way, to work at the relationship but just sees you throw it back in his face. It's time for you to decide if you want out of this marriage.

TheFoundations · 15/09/2021 14:25

This is a bit like watching your house burning down, and spending your time pondering if it was the electrics or a tealight that caused it, rather than getting your pets out.

19Bears · 15/09/2021 14:39

@Billandben444 Yes, I agree. As soon as I said it was about covid I regretted it. It's true that I wasn't happy about going for that reason, but overwhelmingly more that I don't want to be with him.

@TheHouseIsOnFire I can see that it comes across that he's wanting to find ways to spend time with me, but it's really not that way at all. He does what he wants, I have to fit in around it, and occasionally he'll get me a ticket if he knows its a band I like. To add, he bought me a ticket to another gig coming up in a few weeks, but just the one ticket for me to go on my own. He's done this a few times. Other than that he lies on the sofa yawning and watching his politics while I get on with housework, do stuff with the kids etc, as if that's my job. Why would I want to go out with someone like that? He doesn't brush his teeth either....

@ChurchofLatterDayPaints My needs have never seemed to count. In a previous argument a few months ago I told him again how unhappy I am, and that there are things I need from a marriage that we just don't have and never will again. To which he replied, "I don't care if you're not happy." I've never been able to look him in the eye since. I really do dislike him. But I have avoided confrontation all my life, and do my best to rumble on and put a happy face on for the kids. Clearly, this is not the best path to take. I'm in counselling to try and find a way to voice what I want and stick to it.

OP posts:
youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/09/2021 14:43

This environment is incredibly unhealthy for the children. You may think you put on a happy face and shield them from it but that simply doesn't work. Even if you were an Oscar winning actor, they still won't see the positive parts of a healthy relationship that are absent in yours - genuine warmth, loads of laughing, mutual physical affection etc. You can't show them what isn't there, even if you think you can hide the bad stuff.

It means the longer you stay, the more likely they are to end up in a similar relationship. Because their benchmark for what's normal is your relationship with him. So while some people think they are staying 'for the kids', they're doing more harm than good and it's not selfless - in many ways, it's selfish.

I don't say that to shame you, I say that to try and shake you out of the
'staying for the kids' fallacy.

Akire · 15/09/2021 14:45

Oh lovely if he doesn’t care if you are happy then it’s over. You 100% don’t like him there is nothing left to work on. Nothing you can do improve the situation. Stop wasting emotional energy trying work out the unworkable.

Plenty of threads here on what to do to get away. Really helps if you are married and own own home but thankfully benefit systems allows women to be supported in moving away and starting again. Are you working?

19Bears · 15/09/2021 14:51

Five years ago I had thyroid cancer, and went to every appointment on my own. I remember the surgeon telling me the news, I cried, the nurse left the room for a few minutes and he took his glasses off and said "I shouldn't say this but you are a sweet and beautiful woman, and I don't think your husband has any idea how lucky he is. Where is he?" Then the nurse came back. I thought at the time I have to change my life, and here I am still faffing about.

He buys his own dinner to microwave. Sometimes he'll eat what I've made, but mostly does his own thing. He's never cooked for me. Ever.

He's never taken the kids out for the day. He'll come to the back door, look at us playing in the garden, then wander off back to the sofa.

Why would I want to go out with him?

OP posts:
ChurchofLatterDayPaints · 15/09/2021 14:52

Shock at him actually telling you he doesn't care. There you have it.

What @Akire said. Full steam ahead on working out how and when to leave.

category12 · 15/09/2021 14:53

Why do you live with him?

He's not engaged with you or the children.

You earn your own money.

What's the point of the relationship?

youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/09/2021 14:54

@19Bears

Five years ago I had thyroid cancer, and went to every appointment on my own. I remember the surgeon telling me the news, I cried, the nurse left the room for a few minutes and he took his glasses off and said "I shouldn't say this but you are a sweet and beautiful woman, and I don't think your husband has any idea how lucky he is. Where is he?" Then the nurse came back. I thought at the time I have to change my life, and here I am still faffing about.

He buys his own dinner to microwave. Sometimes he'll eat what I've made, but mostly does his own thing. He's never cooked for me. Ever.

He's never taken the kids out for the day. He'll come to the back door, look at us playing in the garden, then wander off back to the sofa.

Why would I want to go out with him?

Why would you want to stay with him?!

Life is precious as you know from your previous health issues (I'm so sorry you went through that) so please don't waste more years on this man and damage your children's perspective on relationships in the process.

19Bears · 15/09/2021 14:54

@Akire What hold me back is wanting to stay in the house with the kids. It's their home above all else. But I cant see how I can get him to leave. I feel stuck :(
Yes I work and could just about buy him out. I imagine it all, but can't seem to make it happen.

OP posts:
youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/09/2021 14:55

[quote 19Bears]@Akire What hold me back is wanting to stay in the house with the kids. It's their home above all else. But I cant see how I can get him to leave. I feel stuck :(
Yes I work and could just about buy him out. I imagine it all, but can't seem to make it happen.[/quote]
YOU are their home.

A house with a toxic environment is not a suitable home for children, even if they tell you they want to stay there. It's time for a grown up decision about what is best for them - and that's not staying with this man under the same roof.

category12 · 15/09/2021 14:58

Just start a divorce.

Don't overthink it, just make an appointment with a solicitor and start the ball rolling.

Just start.

LemonTT · 15/09/2021 14:59

OP there’s no point in rehearsing these arguments and disputes over and over again. You don’t like him and you don’t care if he is unhappy or not. Ditto for his feelings about you.

You have the choice to end the marriage. You don’t need his agreement. No one will ask you to prove it was his fault.

The only gaslighting is internal. And it’s you telling yourself this can go on.

TheHouseIsOnFire · 15/09/2021 15:07

The more you say about him the worse he sounds. I take back what I said about him making an effort to spend time with you. He’s a useless lump who brings nothing to your life and the surgeon was right - where was he that was so important at that awful moment in your life? If he can’t be there for the big things, the little things or anything in between, what is the actual point of him?

Your DC don’t need to grow up in a particular house to be happy. Yes it’s nice if they can (and I’m sure you could find a way if it’s important to you). What they need is happy parents who can make their childhood full of good memories and joy. Playing games with them upstairs - because mum and dad have argued and mum needs to escape from the toxicity - isn’t going to be the happy memory it should be. Imagine a home of your own, where there’s no HIM, just you and the DC playing games with fun and laughter. The weight that will be lifted from your chest when you make that leap will be so liberating. You need to do it for yourself. But mostly you need to do it for them. Splitting up doesn’t make a ‘broken home’, living under a dark cloud means the home is broken. You can fix it by giving them a light and lovely home with you, and hopefully another when they spend time with a dad who is clearly as unhappy as you are.

RiverSkater · 15/09/2021 15:10

I completely empathise as I'm in a similar position right down to the sexless years. When we had the pandemic I just buttoned up and got on with it but DP working from home has nearly broken me.

It's not gaslighting as such just a very unhappy relationship and the comments are made to ensure you take some blame from the fact HE never stepped up as a partner or father.

Ps my partner suggested we go running together too and I just looked at him, 🤨 he does his band stuff and works and it's my thing I do for me to get away from him too 😁

What stops you from ending this, is it the children?

Booboobadoo · 15/09/2021 15:17

He sounds absolutely horrible and I think you're distracting yourself from the bigger picture by obsessing over details. He's vile, your children are affected, you're miserable. This isn't going to improve.