Push/pull relationship

[andthatsallfolks]

I don't know why I'm even asking this. Full disclosure I'm not NT so I struggle a lot.

I've been seeing a guy for a few months. It has been quite intense. In many ways we work really well together. He has said many times he's falling for me.

But I have a pretty awful past. I'm getting counselling now finally. But I struggle with trust.

We keep getting in situations where he gets upset because I don't trust him. I'm trying. I really am. But I find things hard sometimes.

Last night we were chatting over video. He said he wanted to see more of me. I messed around a bit but didn't feel comfortable showing him my body. The call went weird. He texted me after saying he just wanted 'normal' and that he felt sad.

I just feel like it's a kick in the teeth. I thought we were having fun and messing around. But if he doesn't get what he wants it all goes to shit and I feel 'abnormal'.

He was out last night and drinking. So I'm trying to think maybe that coloured his judgement. But it's always like this. I feel like I'm not good enough. But I know I'm a handful. I have a lot of issues to work through.

I'm just so sad and drained this morning. I'm meant to see him today. I dont even know if he wants me over and I have hours before I guess he'll wake up and I can't stop feeling shit.

So he's emotionally blackmailing and coercing you into sexual acts you are not comfortable with? He's an abuser. Block and move on.

You have done nothing wrong and have nothing to feel bad about.

Thank you.

I just find it hard to tell. I know my judgement is skewed as I'm not normal. I just find it a kick in the teeth when he tells me that. He knows everything about my past.

He even said a lot of men will have picked up on my vulnerability and used that. And he's right.

Sorry. I just feel so drained.

@andthatsallfolks

Thank you.

I just find it hard to tell. I know my judgement is skewed as I'm not normal. I just find it a kick in the teeth when he tells me that. He knows everything about my past.

He even said a lot of men will have picked up on my vulnerability and used that. And he's right.

Sorry. I just feel so drained.

Yes, well, he's just outlined exactly what he's doing to you now. Suggesting that you're not normal because you don't want to perform a live sex show on command for him. What a fucking wanker.

@Paq

So he's emotionally blackmailing and coercing you into sexual acts you are not comfortable with? He's an abuser. Block and move on.

You have done nothing wrong and have nothing to feel bad about.

Yup. I agree with this whole heartedly.

Noone should make you feel bad about not doing something you're uncomfortable about.

Block and move on to something respectful. Xxx

Yes a man has picked up on your vulnerability and used it - him. It’s not ‘normal’ to strip on video call for a partner - as in, some people enjoy it and some people don’t and don’t feel comfortable with it. Either is ‘normal’ - what isn’t ‘normal’ is to manipulate a woman you are supposed to care for into a sexual situation she is not comfortable with.

He’s the one with the problem not you and of course you have trust issues with someone who doesn’t respect your boundaries.

OP do you have good friends or family you can talk to? You need to get away from this man.

Thank you. Sorry I'm just in a bit of a state.

No one really knows what's happened to me. He managed to get it out of me. He kept picking and guessing. I didn't really want to tell him. But in a way it's good as I can now deal with it.

But no I don't have anyone to talk to about it. I'm just trying to hold things together.

I don't know why it's making me feel so shit. I feel such a broken person no one will ever love me I'm so abnormal.

I'm very uncomfortable that he called out "other men would've taken advantage of your vulnerability". I think he's trying to make you feel like he's a safe option, when actually I think he's doing exactly that.

NT or not, he's not worth this much stress.

Who's told you that you are broken and abnormal? Why do you believe that about yourself?

He keeps saying he just wants normal. The last text he sent was - you make everything so difficult.

He's right in that I struggle with relationships. I find it hard to trust. But we'd gone so far and I thought I was getting somewhere. And now I feel like I'm just never going to be good enough

Let go of this 'normal' concept. There are no rules or guidelines (except the law) regarding what we 'should' be like, as people, so, unless you're breaking the law, you can be as weird as you like, and still demand full respect in a relationship. Or friendship. Or any area of your life at all.

After all, do you want a relationship you can call 'normal' at the expense of your own happiness? Or would you be thrilled to be in a relationship that dispensed with 'normality' and made you really happy, with full acceptance of the unusual aspects of your personality?

I'd bet my piano that the only thing wrong with you is that you think there is something wrong with you.

It's time to take responsibility for your own boundaries. We all have different boundaries; as I said, there are no rules, so you can put any emotional boundary anywhere you like. You are in charge.

Here is everything you need to know about boundaries, and once you embrace it, you can forget wishing you were normal, and you can forget not knowing how to behave in a relationship, and you can forget being treated poorly:

If somebody does something and you don't like the way it feels, tell them. If they keep doing it, distance yourself from them, because that behaviour is more important to them than you feeling ok. Get closer to people with whom you have pleasant emotional responses.

That's it. That's everything you need to do to stop yourself being taken advantage of/getting into abusive relationships. It's everything you need to be able to let go of the concept of normal, which means you can stop criticising yourself for not being 'normal'.

Fuck normal. I'm not NT either and it's totally irrelevant when it comes to relationships. Nobody is normal. Normal is an external locus of evaluation, and you're trying to use it to navigate an intensely personal, internal terrain. Essentially, you're using the wrong map. Your feelings are signposts, not pesky annoyances that single you out against the rest of the world. Listen to what they tell you. Follow where they lead you. Go where you're happy, and make a distance from people/places that make you unhappy.

The only part of you that is broken is the part that's meant to respect your feelings, and you can fix that right now. You don't feel you can trust this guy, and he makes you feel shit for that. So pull away from him. It's as uncomplicated as that. I know it's not easy, emotionally; that's not what I'm saying. But in terms of being clear about what you need to do, it's that simple.

Being different from everybody else is not a failure in you. You are not broken.

I think he’s taken what you told him and your vulnerability and used it against you to classify you as ‘not normal’. He certainly shouldn’t be pushing you to strip on a video call when you’re uncomfortable and then texting you about wanting ‘normal’ like you’re in the wrong. He should be apologising for his behaviour!
I would be very tempted to step away from this one as he’s not exactly boosting your confidence.
Plus as pp says what is ‘normal’ it’s ridiculous, we all have our quirks, insecurities etc in relationships doesn’t mean we should be classed as normal or abnormal, there’s no perfect man or woman relationship model.

Thank you
@TheFoundations that made me cry. Thank you So much.

I know what you're saying is right. I've just had him and others saying my boundaries are not like everyone else's. I suppose they're not. I don't want to go into it all. But I find it so hard to trust.

I've got to hold it together as my children are here. But I just want to sleep

Maybe you don’t find it hard to trust. Maybe your intuition correctly tells you who not to trust.

They are right: Your boundaries are not like everyone else's.

But if you stop seeing that as a critcism, and avoid people who use it as a criticism, you'll feel better. Your boundaries being different is a sign that you have a narrower search field for a partner than people you class as 'normal'. That's all. They make more people unsuitable to be your partner. You have a finer mesh in your partner-filter, if you like.

And that's all it is. That's all your emotions are doing: filtering. What you're trying to do with this man is to shove a rock through a sieve. He's not fine enough to fit through your filter, and you're pushing and he's stuck, so you feel like there's no way forward and no way back. And really, there isn't, with him. You can't change what's happened so far, and you can't get him through your filter, so it all just has to stop.

But recognise that although your filter is very fine, it's bloody enormous! He can stay stuck where he is, and you can move on, and use other parts of your filter as many times as you like; it never runs out. It surrounds you and protects you all the time, and sends up flares (negative emotions) to warn you when somebody not fine enough tries to get through. The plainest sign that somebody is not fine enough is when they tell you that your boundaries are somehow wrong. That's instant dismissal.

@KhoshkaKatya

Maybe you don’t find it hard to trust. Maybe your intuition correctly tells you who not to trust.

Yes yes!

“I'm just so sad and drained this morning. I'm meant to see him today. I dont even know if he wants me over and I have hours before I guess he'll wake up and I can't stop feeling shit.“

Take control of the situation rather than letting him decide if he wants to see you or not. You text him and cancel the arrangement. It’ll put your mind at ease rather than waiting anxiously to be “accepted” by him.
I also think he’s abusive, he should not have pushed you into confiding in him (which he can now use the information against you) and he should not have pressured you to remove clothing during a video call.
Don’t let this prick dictate to you what is ‘normal’ - we are all so different and he is preying on what makes you feel vulnerable, don’t let him do this to you. I’d cut him loose x

Gosh, I'm so angry for you! What a twat!

We all have a past that shapes us. I have boundaries some people would find weird (even here on MN sometimes). I don't need to explain to anyone why I have them, they are what they are. If someone knew my boundaries (and why I had them!) then tried to shame me into dropping them, I would run for my life.

I never used to though, I used to let everyone do anything to me because I didn't understand that what I felt when I did that was disgust (I cried for hours when I learnt that there was a word for that). I had sexual contact I didn't want, in ways I didn't enjoy because that's what 'normal' girlfriends do and my ex loved reminding me of it time and time again.

I have a partner now that respects all of my boundaries. ALL of them. As a result my boundaries have shifted a little and we do more things that I wouldn't before. There is absolutely no way that that happens through shaming someone, it comes through respect, consistency and trust, without expectation. Anyone who doesn't understand that, frankly isn't worth knowing.

Normal is being different, is having your own personal thoughts, feelings, behaviour and experiences. I guess he doesn't want a human, he wants an image of perfection in his head which doesn't involve any of the above. He won't find that without damaging the other person.

@TheFoundations

I just want to say how excellent your posts are and I couldn’t have put any of that any better myself. Brilliant advice and very wise words!

TheFoundations Fantastic post.

OP Please let this guy go. He is not the right match for you.!

I have never stripped for a video call and I've been in lots of relationships, some short term some long term.
I've never sent anyone nudie pic either and they can fuck off if they don't like that.

You are normal. X

First of all, stipping on a video call is not 'normal'. Some people might be happy to do it, but I think most wouldn't.

Second of all, even if it was 'normal' it's absolutely fine for you not to want to do it because you, personally, don't like it. We all have things that we don't like but which most people might think are fine. We don't have to do things that make us uncomfortable.

Noone should make you feel bad for saying No to something you aren't comfortable doing.

Thirdly, he is taking advantage of information you've given him to do exactly what he claims 'other men' might do. He is using your concern about not being 'the norm' against you, to get some power over you and to get his sexual kicks. That makes him a pretty vile human being.

I suspect you would feel a lot better about yourself if you weren't with this man. He is not good for you. He is making you doubt yourself. He is being unreasonable but making you think you're at fault in some way.

Don't wait for him to deign to call you. PLease PLease don't apoligise to him for last night. You did absolutely nothing wrong and he was completely in the wrong. Don't let him think it was OK. It wasn't.

I truly hope you will be strong enough to cancel your plans for today and to tell him it's over - it isn't working for you. You don't have to get in to a debate as to why (he'll just try to convince you that you aren't normal and your feelings are wrong). Just end it and block.

You deserve so much better than him.

Nailed it, @TheFoundations, bravo!

Block him OP, he's not good enough for you, you sound great 💐

My ex was similar. Always pestering me for sexual videos and pics. And when I would annoyed or refused he would pull the whole “ most women would be happy if their bf desired them like that”. Which is BS from what I know of the women I talk to. But it was always his requests were normal and I wasn’t normal because of my unwillingness or annoyance to give him what he wanted. Became a true turn off for me. I had to tell him he needed to go find one of those women that wanted to perform sexually on video/in photos for him.

@TheFoundations your posts are some of the most perceptive and helpful I’ve ever read