Can love really be THIS blind?

[Arizona823]

My friend (female 30s) has recently seperated from her long term partner (male 30s) with whom she has kids with.
Her ex is attractive, has a good job, good father and is very trustworthy and kind.
However their relationship fizzled out to a point where it had no chemistry. They never spoke nor had sex despite living together and were only together for the kids.

Anyways she has a new man now. However he is very old, short, unattractive, drinks, smokes, does illegal drugs, sufferers from major depression and takes various prescription drugs.

I admit some of my judgements are shallow, but she's only known the guy for a few weeks.
How can she be willing to overlook so many of these characteristics in a potential long term partner??
Her response is that they have 'chemistry'.

We have just found out too that he cheated on her and lied about it ( yes 2 week in). The evidence was overwhelming.
This seemed to be thing that finally got her to question her choices yet she still hasn't ended it and is willing to talk it out with the guy!

Seriously, someone help me understand this?
I don't understand what's driving her decisions.
I asked her if she is lonely or afraid to be alone and she says no.
Her ex also appears to have stepped up his game and is being supportive.

She is attractive and has options.

What's going on?

How do you see this playing out?

What's going on in your life to cause you to be so over-invested in her life?

I suppose it depends what she's looking for from this new guy. If it's a no strings fling that's one thing; if she's planning on introducing him to get kids or moving him in then it would be much more alarming.

You can give her advice, but ultimately I find people tend to be pig headed about relationship decisions and you won't be able to influence her decision OP...

Maybe she has low self esteem and thinks she won't do better or just doesn't want to be left on the shelf? Sometimes people accept lower standards.

I doubt she knows herself so you’ve got no hope!

Just be supportive whilst maintaining she must be a little bit bonkers which is fine unless she envisions a life with this guy at which point she needs to consider her childen…

He sounds awful but the weird chemistry thing can be powerful, sometimes there can be something attractive in dating someone so wrong for you. He may be intelligent/charismatic, they may just have a very intense sexual connection, which could be v powerful after her last relationship fizzled out in that area.

I can understand you feeling worried about her when she’s making such a poor choice of partner when potentially vulnerable after split (even if it fizzled out could be a lot of emotion to process) and also because she has kids. Personally I can’t imagine getting involved with someone like that as a parent but I guess everyone makes mistakes (????!!!!) and dates awful twats and the main thing is that she isn’t having him around her children. (Assuming that’s the case?) Is it possibly she’s just enjoying this as a sort of mad post split fling?

You just have to be a good supportive friend and point out when he’s behaving unacceptably (eg cheating), I also think you can also legitimately raise concerns about the drinking/drug taking etc, I guess it’s just trying to get the balance between attempting to open her eyes but not scaring her off/pushing her towards him/losing her friendship. If she starts talking about introing the kids I would have a much stronger word.

I hope she comes to her senses!

Bellendejour, yes i think you are right.
I believe the man is very charismatic and charming. They can talk for hours.
And yes, I take your point about the reintroduction of sex in her life.

So these are very powerful positive attributes the new man has. Do you feel they outweigh the aforementioned negatives?

As a friend, I was completely supportive, despite my private opinions, however all that changed when the cheating and drugs became apparent at which point I vocalised my concerns.

She is looking at him for long term commitment and has not yet introduced the kids.

I dont think they do outweigh the positives
Plenty of men out there she can talk for hours with who are good at sex, dont drink or do drugs.

Someone who gets away with cheating so early will dl it again.

I suspect she thinks she is in control so has a false sense of security.

Be prepared you might have to step away if she continues for your own sanity!

Low self esteem. That’s the only answer.
I hope she comes to her senses soon.
Also, she might not be telling you everything.
Her long term partner might have been very abusive behind closed doors. You should have seen the guy I went for after coming out of a long term abusive relationship…wouldn’t touch his type with a barge pole now but I was happy a man was kind to me, and willing to have sex.

You see short as being one of the negatives? And 'old'? I agree that the other things are negatives but by having these 2 on the list it does de-value your arguement (if you're using it with her).

By that I mean - maybe you don't like short or old - but they are subjective and perhaps she does. For me they are neither here nor there.

If you are talking to her, I'd suggest focussing on the actual negatives - the obvious stuff like cheating, illegl drugs, drinking (if by that you mean he drinks to excess, not just that he drinks).

But in the end this is her decision. She knows her ex MUCH better than you do, and she doesn't want to be with him. Your view of him will never be the same as hers.

Maybe she's making a mistake with the ex. She is almost certainly making a mistake with the new man. But you can only be there for her when it goes wrong.

I hadn't considered the self esteem. She has never confided that in me.

I'm thinking being with a man for years with no passionate conversation or sex would make her seek out those two specific qualities in a new suiter at the risk of ignoring his other faults.

I think her break up with the ex was right, that relationship was going nowhere.

And yes, you are right, there are many men who can provide these positive qualities without the drugs etc so its curious why she isn't putting herself out there and has settled so quickly with the first suiter that has come along that meets these basic needs.

Usually, how do these relationships end up?

layladomino, I made the mistake of throwing those extra characteristics into my discussion with her. Regretted it instantly!
I shouldn't be too judgemental I guess. Each to their own.

Maybe he's the Diego Rivera to her Frida Kahlo. A large proportion of great artists would fulfil your description. Maybe he's an old toad, she'll have to find out for herself.

Is he very wealthy?
It's quite common to go for wealth second time round - looks, lifestyle and age are more relevant when you're having children with someone. Now she's completed that part of her life her priorities may be different.

Mine fizzled out very quickly.
At some point he became very arrogant and told me that I really wasn’t a model in terms of looks and kinda fat. I didn’t have much self esteem but I did know what I was much better looking then him so I recognized it for what it was : a way of insecure and abusive men to put women down. I told him to fuck off, blocked him and met a much better man not long after.

A very dear friend of mine broke up with the father of her child. He was lovely, kind, caring, considerate, quit work to let her persue her career, stayed home to be a sahd and organised the house wonderfully. Meals were planned and cooked, she got home and did nothing but played with her child. Too us on the outside she had the best life out of everyone.

But she ended it with him, left him and her child.
He was too 'nice' and, her words here, 'too much like a woman'

Her next partner was a rugby playing lager lout that beat her when he was drunk and went to prison for battering his brother with a baseball bat... She was head over heels for him. Even stayed after the social services threatened to remove the baby she had with him. He isolated her and forced all her friends away. We tried to help and to stay and be there for her, but she just ended up slapping a friend and telling all of us to go away.
I haven't seen her for 2 years.

I don't know why I share this, other than too say, there really is no logic sometimes when people get together. All you can do is try to be there, but even that is not always a wide thing.

What’s wrong with being old?

@PalmarisLongus

A very dear friend of mine broke up with the father of her child. He was lovely, kind, caring, considerate, quit work to let her persue her career, stayed home to be a sahd and organised the house wonderfully. Meals were planned and cooked, she got home and did nothing but played with her child. Too us on the outside she had the best life out of everyone.

But she ended it with him, left him and her child.
He was too 'nice' and, her words here, 'too much like a woman'

Her next partner was a rugby playing lager lout that beat her when he was drunk and went to prison for battering his brother with a baseball bat... She was head over heels for him. Even stayed after the social services threatened to remove the baby she had with him. He isolated her and forced all her friends away. We tried to help and to stay and be there for her, but she just ended up slapping a friend and telling all of us to go away.
I haven't seen her for 2 years.

I don't know why I share this, other than too say, there really is no logic sometimes when people get together. All you can do is try to be there, but even that is not always a wide thing.

I know a similar scenario. I think some people (make or female) conflate love with drama. They need that heady first flush to last forever after or else it isn’t really “love”. Or else they need to feel needed - so they find someone they can “save”. I guess it makes feel more in control, ironically.

Maybe that led to OP’s friend’s lack of chemistry in the first place.

*male or female

*lack of chemistry between OP’s friend and her husband I mean.

@TossaCoinToYerWitcher

Drama is a good way to put it. I live in social housing estate and all the couple here seem to thrive on drama, either their own or other peoples.

I could not live that way. I stay alone so I don't have to have the dramas of others in my.life.

As a friend, I was completely supportive, despite my private opinions, however all that changed when the cheating and drugs became apparent at which point I vocalised my concerns.

See what I mean.

You're not really a friend if you're chill with your mate being cheated on.

Woman from work did the same, years ago now though, except she and the guy seemingly had no chemistry or anything in common but were jarringly declaring their love for one another. In reality they lasted 8 months, and it was because both came from loveless marriages and were just so keen to find someone that vaguely noticed them. Sounds a bit like that here, in her case?

I think many of us have had those “what the fuck was I thinking” shags. Frankly I’ve made some questionable decisions and my behaviour to get them has been equally as questionable. One keeps cropping up in my inbox and he physically repulses me now.

For me, (with the benefit of hindsight!) its been attention, right things said at the right time and feeding a low self esteem.
Just stick around for your friend and try and push her away from introducing the kids. Hopefully she will come round before it does too much damage, and he too will fade into a “ewwww” moment. It sounds like he as just around at the right time to show her some attention.

I do know a couple a bit like this, though I don't know either of them very well. She is attractive, mid 20s, good job, very put together, smart, funny...He is mid 40s, looks like a potato at best, drinks heavily, out with the lads all the time, unemployed (though hasn't always been,) cheated on the last 2 women (which she knows) and left both of them with young kids, has cheated on her (she has irrefutable proof.) They have been together for 2 years. She wants to marry him. I suspect he can't because he hasn't divorced his wife. I cannot understand it at all. He is very charismatic, so as mind boggling as it is to me, that has to be it.