Divorce and the kids. Is this arrangement viable longterm?

[Moolihooli]

We have 2 kids aged 12 and 7. Although we had begun divorce proceedings at the end of 2019, when lockdown happened we decided it was best for the kids to stay together for the time being.

We used that time to sort out finances etc. She is keeping the house and I recently moved into a small flat. Unfortunately the only place I can afford nearby is a small 1 bed flat.

It’s really important that I’m within walking distance to the kids. Especially since I don’t have enough room to have them overnight.

But I don’t know how long this is viable. Only having the children for the day is very hard. I tell myself that the unsuitably of the flat means it’s best for them but I don’t know how true that is in the longterm.

How damaging will it be if I don’t have regular sleepovers? We have agreed that I will take them on holidays but is that enough?

@Mn753,

Why do you hate the idea?

People say this often when it comes to divorce, but never apply it to people who have two homes, and go to the ‘country’ for weekends and holidays.

I was going to suggest what @Persipan suggested - your ex could use your flat while you spend time with the kids. It's not ideal but that's divorce for you - you have few options if the house is not going to be sold.

You do have enough room to have them overnight, don't use 1 bedroom as an excuse.

All camp in the living room, watch movies together make it fun!

Give them your room, taking turns between them for your bed and an air bed while you sleep on sofa.

What do the children want? They are old enough to make their wishes known.

@Moolihooli

You may only have a small space but if you set up the bedroom with two single beds you’ll still have more space that a 6 birth caravan if 20ft long by 7 foot wide and it’s one night or two nights a week

I did consider this but eldest is a boy and youngest a girl. STBEW thinks it would be inappropriate

It's not inappropriate for 1 night a week. What about when family's go camping or share Ed rooms in a caravan for a week?

Ask the children what they think the sleeping arrangements should be, that will show whether they would feel uncomfortable sharing.

@Moolihooli

Your wife doesn't have a leg to dtand on, legally - half the house if yours.

Is that true even if the house and mortgage is in her name? She has always earned considerably more and I never asked to be put on the deeds even after we married.

Yes, it’s correct. You have home rights.

www.graysons.co.uk/family/gets-house-divorce/#quicklink6
What are my home rights if the house is owned by my spouse/civil partner solely in their name?
Home rights permit both you and your partner to continue occupying your marital home regardless of who bought it. So, even if the house is in your husband or wife’s name, you have a right to continue living there. It’s important to note that this right is only valid in situations where a property is being used by both spouses/civil partners. Essentially, this right doesn’t extend to properties that haven’t been used as a matrimonial home.
You have home rights if your spouse/civil partner legally owns the property solely in their name (as on the register of title or the title deeds at the Land Registry) but it is/was lived in by you and your spouse/civil partner as the family home. If this is the case, it’s really important that you register your home rights with the Land Registry. This registers your rights as a charge on the property, meaning it can’t be sold, transferred or mortgaged without your knowledge.
There are two steps to registering your home rights:
Firstly, find out if the home is registered with the Land Registry (and if so, find its title number and in whose name it is registered). You can do this by searching the register here.
a) If the home is registered, you can apply to register your home rights here.
b) If the home is unregistered, you can apply to register your home rights here.
These rights apply only until the financial settlement or financial remedies are finalised by the court, at which point a permanent arrangement will take effect. A matrimonial homes rights notice also comes to an end on the pronouncement of decree absolute, so it is important that a settlement is reached and implemented before the decree absolute is pronounced.
You can set an end date for the agreement when you first make it, or you can choose to end the separation agreement voluntarily if you both agree to. If you both agree in this way, then the safest option is to either have the separation agreement rewritten to explain the date of cancellation, or to have a new document confirming the end of the agreement.

You will also have rights to some of her pension pot if it is considerably bigger than yours. Please see a solicitor, and stop listening to what your wife is telling you. She’s obviously being very one sided - and that’s not the side of the children, who have a right to spend equal time with both parents as far as possible.

What do the children want? They are old enough to make their wishes known.

DS 12 doesn’t want to share a room with either DD 7 or me. DD will only share with her mum so basically both don’t want to share.

You need to discuss it more with the ex - have you had mediation?

I think the best solution - if there is enough money for this - would be for her to release some equity from the house to allow you to get a 2/3 bed. So she still keeps the house but you also get a suitable place

Get a solicitor and split the assets fairly. A court would never let her keep the house while you live in a one bed flat, and her solicitor would know that, so her threat of spending every penny fighting it is an empty one.

The starting point will be a 50/50 split of all assets, which will give you both the chance to live somewhere with room for the kids to sleep.

Don’t let her walk all over you, no matter how guilty you feel about the divorce - you will regret it later.

@Moolihooli

Your wife doesn't have a leg to dtand on, legally - half the house if yours.

Is that true even if the house and mortgage is in her name? She has always earned considerably more and I never asked to be put on the deeds even after we married.

Ah yes you are in a trickier situation then - no you have no legal right to force her out of the house or force a sale. Presumably she also paid the majority of the mortgage? Unless you can prove you contributed to the mortgage and request her give you a lump sum to get a larger place yourself then not much you can do?

Presumably your earning power means you can only afford a one bed flat?

Unfortunately the previous posters are a little off the mark - whilst that is what the law strictly says it's generally geared towards protecting the mother with lower earnings potential and wanting to stay inThe family home with the children.....
Ie preventing a father, traditionally earning more forcing the mother out with the children

In this case it's not

No way in the world is a judge going to force the wife who has bought and paid for the house and living their with the children to sell the family home and split assets..... unless the OP can demonstrate that they have actually paid towards the mortgage and house costs all these years

I think that it’s quality of time, not quantity, that matters. You’d all just be sleeping overnight anyway. I’d see how it goes.

@twinningatlife,

Are you in The OP’s wife?!

You are talking a load of nonsense in England.

Unless the house is a pre-marital asset AND there are sufficient assets to go round, so both parties can maintain their previous lifestyles without considering the house, the house is a joint asset and it matters not a jot who paid for it or who pays the mortgage.

You should Google “tiny homes” and “tiny houses” to look at different ways a very small home can be made to work for a family with a bit of carpentry and style.

You have to live within your means (although the poster above who suggested your wife releases some equity from the house to enable you to buy a bit bigger was right), but you can certainly make a one bedroom flat workable for this.

Cabin bunk beds in the bedroom built nice and deep with curtains or even sliding doors - get a handyman to build them, as they’re expensive to buy ready made and you won’t make as much out of the space. With imagination they could be really cool, or if the room is big enough, divide it with a fixed or moveable screen. decoration goes a long way. Knowing what styles they love will make all the difference - a studio ghibli or Minecraft land on one side for your son, a VCSO girl vibe on the other for your daughter etc. Respect and welcome their taste and it will feel like home.

In the living room, invest in as good a sofa bed as you can. I think it’s also important for them that daddy has a nice bed, not sleeping on an air mattress from Argos in a sleeping bag. The more “intentional” it looks, the more stable it will feel for them.

It’s worth considering the hall as a space too. We had to live in a 400 sq ft one bedroom flat for a few months with our children and we used the hall as a sleeping space! If it’s wide enough for a single bed and you have some storage, you could consider a futon mattress that rolls away during the day and then one child could have the bedroom and the other the living room. Doesn’t matter at this age, but when your daughter is a teen it will make all the difference.

I definitely think that equity release is something to consider, but don’t write off the possibility of a 400sq ft 1 bedroom flat working elegantly and comfortably. It’s also probably not forever anyway.

Many families live in flats that size in cities all over the world. Make it look as pretty and intentional as you can and don’t apologise to your children about it - don’t create a narrative that it’s shit. Stick to the narrative that it’s awesome.

You can even have each child for one night a week separately. Not ideal but at least it gets them thinking of your home as somewhere they can sleep.

I'm a divorced father. My kids were the same age as yours when we split.
You should maximise the time you have with them, because you won't get it back. Before you know it they'll be driving, going to college or uni, and won't want to spend so much time with you. Grab it now.
My two regularly sleep in same room, in bunk beds. Their choice. They are really close as a result. I think it's cool.
Persipan's suggestion of a nesting arrangement is spot on, or press for sale.
I wish you well.

I can’t figure out how to do the quote thing, but I meant more about whether the children want overnight contact. You seem to suggest they do, but space is the issue.

I think regardless of what posters on here say, you are the one who knows your children best and knows the situation best. It is fine for posters here to say, for example, go to court, but they don’t have to pay the costs or deal with the emotional fall-out. Ideally you will come up with a solution which suits the children and allows you to co-parent amicably with your ex.

In terms of an equitable split of assets, you need legal advice and then mediation, I think.

'Personally I hate the idea of kids having to sleep at 2 houses so I think if you see them plenty and they get their own bed it's all good'

Totally agree with this. I don't think it's better for the children to have to lose their family home and then have to split their time between two houses, moving back and forward, having to remember where their stuff is etc.

The most important this is very regular access to both parents and it sounds like you have that OP. As long as you're in their life everyday, or as close to as possible it will be enough.

If the children want to sleep over then find a way to set the flat to accommodate this. If they can't both fit at the same time they could take turns. But I wouldn't be pressing for a regular half the week/every other week arrangement.

Of the house stays with your ex, is there no way at all of you being able to afford a 2 bed? Even if she has to release some equity or pay the difference in cost.

I think you need to remind her that you both need to do what's best for the kids and not having somewhere for them to sleep when they're with you, isn't the best thing for the kids. She can see that keeping the family home is best for the kids, you just need an extra bedroom for it to be good for the kids.

You are most likely entitled to some of the equity in the family home, so like all the other said, get some legal advice
It sounds like you're both doing a good job of communicating, this is just the final negotiation, so keep going. Ultimately, it will benefit her, when she gets the odd night off too.

I think you are entitled to a suitable place to live where you can have your children overnight. . If there is enough equity in the house to allow you both to buy suitable accommodation then you should stick it out for a sale. You have a right to a share of the house It's a marital asset. Don't be walked over.

I second pps who say you need legal advice around whether or not you have any claim on the house but, particularly, around overnights.

If you can make arrangements for your DC to sleep separately ask a solicitor if a court would find these arrangements acceptable. If so then go to court for overnight access . Ex can't argue over a court order - well she can but would be breaching it if she didn't comply.

Good Luck.

You need a lawyer. My understanding is that she would need to sell or buy you out. You can then get a more suitable apartment.

@NuffSaidSam,

You hear your argument a lot from adults who are trying to justify to themselves why they deserve to live in a big house (clearly no longer ‘the family home’) whilst their ex gets a poky flat.

Not so much from children, who quite enjoy having two homes (as long as it is managed well).

You say you have to be within walking distance of the kids since you don't have room to have them overnight - but if you were a bit further out would you be able to afford a flat with more space?

Would exploring transport options be easier than exploring sleeping options at all?

If she owned the house before she met you, you are not entitled to it, that was the situation with me and my exH, we were married for 20 years and I owned the house before I met him so he was not entitled to it.
I think that train of thought is dead in the water.
Is it not possible for you to share the bedroom with your son and have a blow up bed for your daughter in the living room or the other way round.
Murphy beds are handy too.