Can this marriage last

[BadWife1]

Name changed, because I have no idea what I'm going to do long term, and don't want to be outed. Sorry for the length, don't want to drip feed.

I've been with my husband 6 years, married 3. Have two kids, 4 and 1.

DH is a good, kind man. I don't think he'd ever cheat, no abuse. I feel incredibly lucky in a lot of ways. And pre-kids I remember being happy, but maybe a touch concerned that we wanted different things out of life - but not hugely different. I like to travel, visit new places, try new things. I have alternative tastes and would experiment with things like house decoration and car choice. He's just a bit more vanilla, not a big deal - we're all different.

There has been many, many arguments over the 4 years since our first was born. I've been hugely resentful at taking on most of the responsibility of every day life (childcare, cooking, cleaning, shopping, admin) while not actually having much say over the stuff I am interested in/fun stuff (nights out, holidays, house decoration etc.) To be clear, he'd never stop me going out, but friends are mostly not local and he's not interested in meeting up with mine (his are hugely important to him and we I must attend their events). I've also never had a big friend group. But to do things together, he'd rather just stay in and will either talk me out of things or reluctantly go but not enjoy it. Night in the pub, fine. Anything else, almost never.

I feel I have little control over my own life. Things I want to do are shot down. Cost too much money (despite him spending a small fortune smoking), we'll 'talk about it later' etc - but later never happens.

He's lazy, but there have been small significant changes, especially over the last 6 months. It took a serious threat of leaving, and I still do much more than my fair share, but he's making improvements. I can't expect a complete overnight change.

Can I change things? Or are we destined to separate?

I earn enough to survive without him. It would be nasty break-up and we'd both be devastated. He would say hurtful things because he'd be hurting, and I'd feel awful separating the kids from their Dad.

When I think about separation there are a couple of things that put me off, and it's because I realise how awful and shallow these reasons are that I don't think there's much hope for us:
1 - I don't want to share the kids on birthdays/Christmas etc
2 - I love our house and don't want to move
3 - I don't want to have a different surname to our kids

Of course, there's a load of minor things that drive me mad day to day. The noise of him eating is almost enough to make me want to leave him daily - it's loud and I do mention it on occasion when it's too much for me to handle. Mostly I try to ignore or leave the room. He controls the TV and its ALWAYS on. I dream of leaving him and having no TV in the house, or at least not in the bedroom.

I'd like to try counselling and have suggested it before, but he refused. I'm sure he'd agree if I told him exactly what I'd written here, but I also don't think he'd ever forgive me.

I want to love him like a wife should, I want to be happy. I do love him, but I don't feel it's enough.
Is this just life in the toddler years when things are stressful and you don't have time to connect as a couple?

Tell him what's going on in your head (maybe show him your post?) and tell him you're going to review it regularly, say every six months? You're obviously still young and if you stay with him you could have many years of misery ahead.

A break up doesn't have to be unpleasant. There doesn't have to be blame and bitterness. You just say it isn't working for you, so it can't be working for either of you.

@Dillydollydingdong
Thank you.
I don't think I could show him the post as it would devastate him. But I know I need to communicate what I'm feeling.

I'm an older Mum. So not young, but young enough to still have a life.

What I want is for us to be happy together, but it'll take changes that I'm not sure if fair to expect from either of us.

I just feel like a shadow of my former self, but was I even happy then anyway?? I'm not sure I was.

You say he's a good man and there's no abuse but you also say "I feel I have little control over my own life. Things I want to do are shot down". That's controlling, so subtle you don't notice. That was the way my ex did it, most of the time.

He hasn't stopped you going out but it sounds like he's not keen on you having a social life, is that right? Mine was the same but oh so subtly tried to put me off the people I was going to meet. "I'm not sure about her, she can be a bit odd." She was absolutely fine, the problem was she was taking my attention away from him for a couple of hours.

You say you can't expect him to change his ways and do more overnight - why not? Why does it take a few days, weeks, months for him to do any of the things that need doing? Does the precious soul need time to work up to these things? No. He's just letting you get on with it because you will.

Go to counselling, but by yourself

Communication is definitely key here. And couples counselling may help but that is if the both of you want to make it work. You should tell him how you feel and I'm sure if he's made effort to change before he would definitely agree to counselling and maybe that can help..

@Orgasmagorical
I have thought about the controlling aspect. He would not recognise it in himself and would tell you I always get my own way, make all the decisions etc. Its something he'll say often and I think he actually believes it himself. I can't imagine why, and it makes me doubt myself. He likes things to be his idea, or his decision. A lot of this is because he's anxious about money (no need, I'm not careless with it and we're comfortable enough).

He wouldn't stop me going out. But I basically have no close friends now to go out with anyway. Mostly changes since having kids - lifestyle changes, and generally not having the energy to go out and get drunk. I've had a few friends he's not been keen on, but honestly he was right about them. So he'd never stop me, but he wouldn't be social or make an effort with my friends, but does expect me to do that with his.

It sounds pretty miserable.

He asks you to go out with his friends and you say no what happens?

You ask for 50% of TV control when both home in the evenings and what happens?

You ask for equal free spending money - the equivalent to his including his smoking band wha would he say?

You don't need to change your name if you divorce btw!!

You can have 2 Christmases!

No doubt he means you get to "control" all the decisions around the house and DC - all the ones he isn't interested in/doesn't carr about!

Time to say you take turns choosing holidays and nights out as a couple. Time for you to go out every week to try new activities and have weekends away without the DC to visit friends?

@Orgasmagorical as for the changes...I had to make overnight changes so I don't feel it's impossible - being a parent is nothing at all like my previous life. I don't resent that, I was ready for the change - and kids were his suggestion so I'd hope he was ready for it to.

But I'm sure it's a common story...Mum did absolutely everything for her son. He did nothing, not even change his own sheets. Dinner handed to him on a plate to take up to his bedroom. Never cleaned up after himself.

It's been quite a shock to him. And something I didn't really notice before we had kids, because he moved into mine and it didn't really change my life that much to cook for two instead of one etc. I also think he got worse during the first mat leave as I 'wasn't working' so he expected I'd do everything. And I did, because I kind of thought that's what you did. It took me a while to realise that wasn't right, and to understand the resentment.

So I'm seeing the small changes as positive steps forward. Would rather not have a total breakdown every 6 months to achieve the changes, but I'm glad things are improving even if it's slowly.

he wouldn't be social or make an effort with my friends, but does expect me to do that with his

I also would like to know what would happen if you didn't.

@RandomMess
I couldn't bear the sulking if I tried to control the TV 50% of the time. Nor would I want to, I'm not that interested in it. The occasional 'what do you fancy watching', or 'should we watch this' wouldn't hurt though.

2 small kids, one of which doesn't sleep, means very limited nights out anyway. Maybe that's part of the problem - we don't have the time or opportunity to enjoy each others company.

And taking turns to choose holidays....he doesn't want to go at all.

We have roughly the same spending money each month. He sends me a certain amount each month for mortgage/bills etc. But does like to complain that I have all the money. I'm happy for him to take over the finances, or at least share or get involved in the responsibility. I don't have as much spare cash as he thinks I do - it's always spent on the kids, or takeaways when I'm too knackered to cook.

@WallaceinAnderland
I've argued with a friend of his before. It nearly broke us. He values them highly and we've argued about it as I've said I think he prioritises them more than he would me.

That might actually make me sound awful. But they are a big group (mixed male/female) and the demands of this (pre covid mostly) could be a bit overwhelming. Like he's not capable of saying no to them, but often says no to me.

But I have on occasion not gone with him to events (sick kids, pregnancy etc) and it's absolutely fine. He'll also go out with them where I'm not invited sometimes - also not an issue (boys nights mostly).

For the sulking and refusing to share responsibility for family finances and then moaning I'd be done.

You sound last on his priority list

Once you've stopped breastfeeding during the night you need to start going out! Find you again.

You sound more like his Mum and him a teen.

Of your points, 1 and 3 are really really poor reasons to stay in a bad marriage. I mean if they are all that's stopping you, I can reassure you a bit.

I am seperated and share custody 50/50 with my ex-husband and we share birthdays and Christmas so there's no need for anyone to miss out completely. If the children happen to be with me on their birthday, then their Dad comes around for dinner and cake and will also be there for their party if having one the weekend around the birthday itself. Exactly the same applies if they happen to be with him. Christmas, we take turns having Christmas Eve/Christmas Day til 3 or Christmas evening/Boxing Day. We are reasonably amicable so it works ok but don't really need to be for it to be manageable: for example if you didnt want to spend the time in his house for the birthday, then you could bring your child out for a few hours. Look it's not the same and can be a bit awkward for the first few years in particular but really, that's only a few days out of the 365 days. I am a very unsentimental person and I do accept that this can be much harder for some people than for me but it's amazing how you adapt and indeed learm how to reframe things.

As for the wanting to have the same name as your children, many many very happily married women retain their own name and it is such a non issue. I never used anything other than my own name and obviously don't now that I'm seperated and it makes zero difference to our everyday lives.

@theleafandnotthetree
Thank you. It's reassuring to know that it can work out.
Reasons 1 and 3 are certainly not the main reasons. 1 would destroy me for the first couple of years, but I know it would become the new normal.

The house would be unavoidable really. We have a lot of equity in it (mine from previous property, but that's irrelevant now) and I wouldn't be able to buy him out - although I could afford our current repayments.

Separation is a last resort for me, as I'm sure it is for most people. I'd like to find a way to be happy. But I equally don't want to live 20 unhappy years together and then divorce and regret not doing it sooner.

@RandomMess you're right. I need to go out and start enjoying myself again. Just because he wants to sit at home and do nothing doesn't mean I should too.

As well as reclaiming yourself and your life start looking at how to improve your earnings and career and mortgage potential.

If you had the DC the majority of the time it would be unlikely to be a 50:50 split on the house - could be very different depending on pensions.

Keep your options open and focus on getting the mortgage paid off so regardless there is more equity in the pot regardless.

Ignore the sulking and call him out on it.

You sound pretty down, especially when you sound unsure whether you've ever been happy. How's your mood generally?

Your H sounds so different to you, I wonder what brought you together in the first place? You must have had common ground? Or is he just really hot? (Not joking! I've got friends who definitely overlooked character because their partner was attractive)

@FoxgloveSummers I wonder this myself sometimes
He's hot. I think he is. But I wouldn't say he's stunning enough to be with just for looks alone.

Quite honestly....I'd had a string of either crap relationships, or been interested in people who just weren't that interested back. With DH it was just so easy. We got on, there was never any drama. We have similar upbringings (although his was more comfortable financially). It was comfortable very quickly, and I wanted to settle down. We had fun going out together, but were also just happy in each others company.

Perhaps this is more about me than the relationship. Because on the face of it (apart from his laziness) there's nothing wrong with the marriage. I need to look at whether it's me that needs some help.

Ok well you could arrange to travel and go to new places under the umbrella of it's great for the kids to experience and be able to navigate all different places and scenerios.

How we agree with decoration, so kitchen is up to me because well I'm in it most. Living room - joint decision. Neither of us like wallpaper and we want to be a bit bold in the hallway but that took x15 tester pots of similar shades until we decided on one.

Can you not try one weekend at home, one weekend doing stuff.

It's not just you two now.

And can you not find a female in his group of friends to have a happy gossip with, nothing personal just nonsense?

So you're miserable (for valid reasons) but don't want to tell him in case it makes him miserable?

You say he'd never stop you doing what you want but he also frequently tells you No and stops you doing what you want?

If he's big enough to be causing you this amount of unhappiness he is big enough to hear that he is.

Whatever his reasons it does sound like your wings have been clipped by him, if you're not already at resentment it doesn't sound too far away.

It's definitely time for an unpleasant chat at best, a screaming row at worst, but you sound ripe for a divorce and it's reasonable to let him know that.

No it isn't you.

he's not capable of saying no to them, but often says no to me

Of course he's capable of saying no to them. He just doesn't want to.

Mmm, it's interesting that you say that overall it's good and you get on. Because I see a lot of red (or at the very least, dark pink) flags:

You say he'd rather stay home... unless it's going out with his friends. So he'll socialise on HIS terms, with OTHER people but not with you or with your friends.

He sulks if he doesn't get his own way eg the tv being on all the time.

You do the vast bulk of the home care, childcare and, I assume, the mental load of thinking, planning, considering etc.

You enjoy certain things and he will never do those things with you.

He appears to resent paying his share of family finances, accusing you of having "all the money". Particularly egregious when you consider that you have offered to let him take this on, but he can't be bothered.

He delegates decision making on things he is not interested in (what to eat, household stuff, children) to you, but then uses that as a stick to beat you with "Oh, everything is done your way".

Yeah, he sounds like a prize.

He does appear to have trained you to accept really overbearing controlling behaviour and the bit about you having no friends but his being important is ringing alarm bells.

I don't think I could show him the post as it would devastate him
If you were making him as miserable as you are wouldn't you want to know so you had a chance to do something about it? A grown man is capable of hearing 'you're a selfish arse, I'm unhappy at the moment and I want us to try and fix this' without dying of misery.

Pretending to be fragile about criticism is a means of shutting you up so he can do as he wishes. It's controlling.

Sorry I wasn't trying to imply that nothing he's doing is a problem - CLEARLY it is. But you feeling unhappy may not be helping.

He's not being fair, seems to be the main problem, that and he's turning out to be a bit boring. All he likes is TV and seeing his mates. He won't make a reciprocal effort to do what you want, or see your friends. That's dick behaviour. His sulking is a problem. His lack of reciprocity is a problem. He shouldn't be doing these things or need to be told they're bad. But he obviously does need to be told. Would he rather hear these harsh truths or find himself single only seeing his kids every other christmas etc?

2 small kids, one of which doesn't sleep, means very limited nights out anyway

Bollocks to this if he's off out regularly. His massive group of mates must include One adult capable of babysitting.