Can't control my son

[AlwaysTimeForTea1]

I've NC. I am at my wits end. He is uncontrollable and I don't know where else to turn.
He is 13, drinking, won't come home when asked. Just leaves the house regardless. Can't get him MH or alcohol support without his consent. Refuses to go to school. I don't know what else to do.

If that was my son I'd move to the middle of nowhere. I reise not everyone can do that but certainly away from the bad influences.

Take the phone away. Don't keep any cash in the house and keep your wallets on you even at night. You have to stop giving him routes to access money and alcohol. If he has no phone he will find it harder to keep up with the boys he mixing with.

I would also take away every item of clothing and footwear except PJs and school uniform. Let him chew on that.

Assuming you don't let him have privileges eg cames consider,iPad etc?

@Sadless

Tell the social services to take him it's not going to get any better any time soon and he needs help now. He knows you have no control of what he does and that won't help him or stop him doing what he wants. You can't lock him in thats classed as imprisonment I was told then told by a policeman that if I locked my doors at night and remove keys that's.

Sal

Yes we've also been told the same about not locking him in.

I couldn't read this and ignore.
My nephew was the same from around age 12. Not going school, drinking, messing around in cars. It was only by chance, someone looked at his phone and found nudes with a much older guy

Turns out, he was being groomed, forcibly injected with heroin which made him go back. We thought it was just his friends he was out with.

He's 16 now, much better off since we found out. Unfortunately, we had to put him in care because we couldn't keep him safe. He kept going back. But now he's going to college and gone to court against his groomer, which was a whole gang of people.

Hope it isn't this OP but Google it - it's classic signs for being groomed. We didn't know and it was only by chance.

@cansu

Yu can pretty much guarantee he is hanging around with older teenagers. I think you have to step in early to deal with this and it sounds like it has gone too far. Is there any option for moving away to a new area? He probably needs a fresh start away from these peers. I am interested that he won't 'allow' you access to his phone. I would be very concerned about drugs and gangs. Vigilance around their phones is a bad sign.

He's not long moved to the area, he was the same in the previous area. It's not viable to move again, more so because of the impact on the younger children. His dads just been by to where he's sometimes known to hang out. He was asked to be home at a certain time and wasn't. He asked the kids names who he was with and he wouldn't say, one was a girl, one was a boy of 16. He wouldn't give the name over and walked off refusing to come home again.

I've PM'd you, OP.

Hiding his phone from you is the biggest sign

Some of the signs you might see include:

being very secretive about how they're spending their time, including when online
having an older boyfriend or girlfriend
having money or new things like clothes and mobile phones that they can't or won't explain
underage drinking or drug taking
spending more or less time online or on their devices
being upset, withdrawn or distressed
sexualised behaviour, language or an understanding of sex that's not appropriate for their age
spending more time away from home or going missing for periods of time.

From the NSPCC website

@PennyWus

Take the phone away. Don't keep any cash in the house and keep your wallets on you even at night. You have to stop giving him routes to access money and alcohol. If he has no phone he will find it harder to keep up with the boys he mixing with.

I would also take away every item of clothing and footwear except PJs and school uniform. Let him chew on that.

Assuming you don't let him have privileges eg cames consider,iPad etc?

That wouldn't phase him either I don't think. He wears the same clothes for days, has very poor hygiene and doesn't care about that either. He sleeps in his clothes gets up and straight out the door again. No devices accessible and been removed to a house he can't access.

@katie2812

I couldn't read this and ignore. My nephew was the same from around age 12. Not going school, drinking, messing around in cars. It was only by chance, someone looked at his phone and found nudes with a much older guy

Turns out, he was being groomed, forcibly injected with heroin which made him go back. We thought it was just his friends he was out with.

He's 16 now, much better off since we found out. Unfortunately, we had to put him in care because we couldn't keep him safe. He kept going back. But now he's going to college and gone to court against his groomer, which was a whole gang of people.

Hope it isn't this OP but Google it - it's classic signs for being groomed. We didn't know and it was only by chance.

Thank you for this. I'm sorry to hear he's had to go through this but it's something I will look into immediately. I've also looked on his Instagram which is not private and he's following a lot of accounts that are like porn girls. Similar accounts also following him back. I'm concerned about radicalisation as well especially regarding the manosphere from some of the things I've seen on his accounts.

@katie2812

Hiding his phone from you is the biggest sign

Some of the signs you might see include:

being very secretive about how they're spending their time, including when online
having an older boyfriend or girlfriend
having money or new things like clothes and mobile phones that they can't or won't explain
underage drinking or drug taking
spending more or less time online or on their devices
being upset, withdrawn or distressed
sexualised behaviour, language or an understanding of sex that's not appropriate for their age
spending more time away from home or going missing for periods of time.

From the NSPCC website

Thank you Katie I really appreciate this.

One thing you could do now is to apply for an EHCP for SEMH. Presumably school would support. He could then be placed in an SEMH school, with the potential of residential to get him out of the company he is with.

You could contact school’s designated safeguarding lead and say you’re seriously concerned about potential child sexual exploitation (quote the nspcc stuff maybe) and/or child criminal exploitation (do you think there’s a possibility he’s involved in county lines?) and just see if they are able to sort or help coordinate social services/police/other agency support. I think if he’s still on roll at school they should be able to look into things.

@AlwaysTimeForTea1

Social services are involved on child in need level. They say their mental health referral has been rejected because he didn't consent on his parents did. School have tried to put in their own referral as well as the GP but it seems unless he consents they can't do anything further. The local adolescent substance misuse service won't accept a referral without his consent either. Locked doors and windows have been tried he just breaks out. No concerns with the parenting, the younger children have no concerns surrounding them. Complaint has been put in to children's service by parents due to lack of support. They are saying there is nothing they can do. He's been bought back by police several times and spoken to by missing persons officers. He refuses to speak to any professional. Has refused pastoral support from school and refuses to even attend school so they can try and work with him. It feels like we are expected to sit back and watch his life unfold on a slippery slope. And also concerned younger children will start to copy the behaviours and he has been unsafe with them in the past. Thanks for your comments.

When did 13 year old children get given so much power to decide what they will and won't 'consent' to? This baffles me. He's not an adult who makes adult decisions, he's under the age of consent.

@Verbena87

You could contact school’s designated safeguarding lead and say you’re seriously concerned about potential child sexual exploitation (quote the nspcc stuff maybe) and/or child criminal exploitation (do you think there’s a possibility he’s involved in county lines?) and just see if they are able to sort or help coordinate social services/police/other agency support. I think if he’s still on roll at school they should be able to look into things.

The safeguarding lead are in contact with us regularly anyway, last contact was today. They've also said how useless social services have been. They've put in their own referral to mental health team but nothing has come of it as yet.

When did 13 year old children get given so much power to decide what they will and won't 'consent' to? This baffles me. He's not an adult who makes adult decisions, he's under the age of consent.

It baffles me too! I was only saying today he doesn't necessarily have the capacity or understanding to know what support he needs. We can all see it but he can't.

@TheChip it won't let me reply to you on pm or let me quote you back? Any ideas why that is?

Have you gone to the police about the theft of money?

[quote AlwaysTimeForTea1]@TheChip it won't let me reply to you on pm or let me quote you back? Any ideas why that is? [/quote]
Hmmm I really don't know. I've just checked my settings and can't see anything to give any reason as to why. Strange indeed.

Its not so much about legal concepts of consent, and more about, will he actually engage with MH services. I very much doubt the OP could frogmarch her son to appointments, and even if she could, there would be no point if he refused to engage once he's there.

I really feel for you, OP. Its incredibly hard to manage a kid who is going off the rails. Keep on at CAMHS, and at Social Services. Get in touch with your local PCSO, who might be extremely grateful to hear from at least one concerned parent.

If the police get involved over a relatively small issue like theft of money, it might stop him being dragged into much more serious stuff.

He's possibly got some undiagnosed adhd, however, school want to support but because he's not there I'm not sure what they can do currently. Also he's not been displaying these behaviours at school on the odd times he has gone which makes everyone wonder what's up. I suspect there is undiagnosed mental health but he won't get close enough to anyone to help.

ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder) is often associated with ADHD and the outcomes without medication and support are very l, very poor. I wonder if taking a different tactic and threatening to sue cahms/local authority/whoever for failing to provide him with the medical support to enable him to at least have a fighting chance, would get a response.

I’m brainstorming and it’s probably not helpful but I’m shocked that a minor can be neglected and essentially left up rot like this. Not by you OP, but by the systems around you. He’s 13. He’s a child.

@AlwaysTimeForTea1 this sounds like my brother.. he is the youngest of the three of us & was a nightmare. Social services weren’t involved but it was awful at hone for a few years; caused my dad to have a breakdown & nearly tore my parents apart. Same elements- drugs, antisocial behaviour, exclusion at school.. he is now in his twenties & a different person. I think he was very angry as a teenager; and I think really just an extreme version of his character now- competitive, disobedient, outgoing, afraid of nothing, yet also moments of severe lack of confidence in himself.

In hindsight there were two things that helped drag him & my parents through it:

1. my mum & dad found out who he was hanging round with; and subsequently became very very good friends with another boys mum & step dad. They still are very good friends even though the boys have now grown up and are less in touch. I think this saved my parents sanity and when my brother completely ignored my mums attempts to help him/curb his behaviour; he went round his shitty mates house to smoke weed etc- his mates mum became a really good ‘friend’ to him. I think this was relatively easy for him to accept her as a non threat because my parents were ‘the enemy’ if that makes sense. I dont think he realised at the time how close his mates mum and his own mum were communicating. This didn’t change his behaviour overnight but it gave him a safer environment and gave my parents some peace of mind. A few years on he scraped into university and my parents forced him to go, moving away from the area they lived in, he managed it and finished his degree.

2. after university he moved home & I thought my dad would have another breakdown. For months it was tense, brother not working etc smoking.. then my dad persuaded him to go abroad for year; and he spent 3 years in China. My parents booked his flight. The first one he was too scared to get on and ran away from the airport, surfacing after a 3 day bender, having spent all the money my parents had given him to set up over there for his year abroad. Then they booked him a second one way flight; and my dad took him to the gate. He got that flight, and has just finished 3 years there, he’s come back a different person; and is really quite remorseful about his teen behaviour. His relationship with our dad is still hard.
   I hope this can offer you some reassurance for your son- even if it seems dark times now; it doesn’t mean it always will be. When my brother was kicked out of school; he ended up coming to stay with me for a while, then my uncle, on and off- to get him out of the area and away from the immediate surroundings. This was difficult but I do think beneficial.

Do you have other adults who could help? As an alternative to a ‘parent’ figure? Parents of his ‘friends’ or extended family members who live far away where he could be safe & have some time away from the current daily influences.

Sending you a hug OP. I think they behave like this out of fear, confusion & hormones xxxx

An update regarding the theft after he had to get reported missing again. He either had to get arrested or agree to do a community something to understand about bad choices. He feels likes his dad grassed him up to the police and he has blamed his dad for everything, including not getting him help for his MH. My partner is very upset because obviously his son doesn't understand what he's been trying to do daily to get him help, and he's doing it for his own good. I feel it could put him off calling the police again but he does agree it was the right thing to do. I'm not sure what this community thing is he needs to attend as I wasn't there during the conversation but they've said the next time he does something wrong he will be arrested.

Is this your own son or your stepson?

My step son.

This sounds so stressful and traumatic. Could his dad take him away somewhere remote for a week just the two of them and try to get through to him and find out what’s behind it all? Maybe he’s really angry and feeling pushed out? Are the younger kids yours? If he’s decided nobody cares about him so it doesn’t matter what he does then his dad taking some time for the two of them together might prove otherwise.