DH lacks any empathy

[Exhaustedpenguin]

I'm sure I can predict what people will say but I'm wanting advice please, that isn't just telling me to leave him, because I'm not going to subject the DC's to a divorce.

At the moment I am very upset and scared because my grandma has been told she has a few weeks to live and my best friend has stage 4 cancer and the chemotherapy isn't working
My DH asked me in 2 separate conversations, why I was sad, so I told him.

For my grandma he said, "she looked fine last time I saw her. How do you actually know she's dying I told him the doctors have advised she go to a hospice for her last few weeks. He said, "I'll believe it when I see it, unless you've personally talked to the doctor, I'd stop worrying. He asked what grans plans were for Christmas and I said, she'll be dead by Christmas. He told me I was being pessimistic and walked away.

For my best friend I was crying and he asked what was wrong. After I told him I was scared she'll die he said, "I worry about climate change but I've realised there's nothing I can do about it, so there's no point you getting upset. Is that the only thing making you cry?"

This isn't an unusual reaction but the two things together have made me realise just how lonely I am because I can't talk to him about it. He knows he lacks empathy and I know I can't change him, but i just don't know how I can cope with this. I could talk to friends about it but it angers me that he asks how I am, but then dismisses my feelings completely. Does anyone else's DH behave this way?

I'm so sorry for what you're going through right now

Are you able to get counselling on your own? To try to work through your feelings about this?

I find it concerning that you think what he's doing shouting at you and the kids in the street, showing a pathological lack of empathy is 'insignificant'. These are very serious issues that would have most people thinking about leaving, so please don't think you're being unreasonable in any way.

I agree it could actually be worse for the kids if you stay. Life gets harder as they get older, as you get older, this will only get worse.

[quote Maunderingdrunkenly]@Sakurami are you really saying you wouldn’t be able to see why people would be upset over two imminent losses of loved ones?

Lockdown stress isn’t really the same thing at all, so it isn’t a useful comparison. Also, people who have shitty home lives/relationships struggle far more with lock down than people with good home lives.[/quote]
Gosh not at all. I am hugely sympathetic about that and I am so very sorry for op. A friend has just received devastating news about her son and I feel paralysed. Nothing I can say or do seems right against such a tragic prognosis.

What I meant is things like lockdown and similar. I tend to look at the positives and not dwell on the negatives of things like ghat

Sorry you are in this situation. Because you feel unable to leave, my question would be is he willing to try to learn to empathise? Optimistic I know.

Thank you everyone for the replies and advice. I've learnt a lot more about why he may behave the way he does. I have tried to get him to understand before, even suggested stock phrases thst he could use like, "I'm sorry you're feeling like this" but he simply cannot do it. He says, but what's the point of saying that." He wants to fix things and when it's something unfixable he can't cope.
We've had a long chat today and I've realised thst he will never change. He says he will try and start supporting me, but we've been married nearly 20 years. I think it's just too late.

I'm so very sorry.

How does he respond when something bad or disappointing happens to him?

My DP doesn’t understand my feelings, but over the years he has learnt how to say the right things, and even give me a hug, which he finds awkward.

@Exhaustedpenguin

Thank you everyone for the replies and advice. I've learnt a lot more about why he may behave the way he does. I have tried to get him to understand before, even suggested stock phrases thst he could use like, "I'm sorry you're feeling like this" but he simply cannot do it. He says, but what's the point of saying that." He wants to fix things and when it's something unfixable he can't cope. We've had a long chat today and I've realised thst he will never change. He says he will try and start supporting me, but we've been married nearly 20 years. I think it's just too late.

What about the kids growing up with this as an example, and as their normal?

He can't change OP. So now you have to think of your kids really.

Oh OP, this is so shit. I'm sorry.

My DM is like this. She is completely incapable of understanding any emotion or having any empathy. I'm not one for Internet diagnosis, but she does clearly have some form of mental health condition/SEN. As a minimum, she has confirmed OCD. I remember once I was feeling really miserable, at my absolute lowest with a marriage about to implode due to money problems, exhausted with two young kids and I had suicidal ideation. When I spoke to my mum, she started talking about the weather.

That was when I just gave up on her completely and resigned myself to her not being the mum I wanted or needed. I don't really engage with her now about anything beyond the superficial.

I definitely couldn't cope with a DH like this. Mine can be awkward with his words, say the wrong things etc. But generally, he is my rock and voice of reason when I'm upset. When my sister died last year, he didn't know what to do or say, but he was open and honest and said that. He asked me what I needed. Which was enough.

I don't think you can change him TBH. I hope it works out for you whatever you decide.

Hello OP, I am very sorry to hear about your gran and your friend.

My husband is like this, and like you I have spent the last year realising that he has always been like it and also that he will never change. I've also suffered a terrible bereavement which has revealed his behaviour to me acutely as I felt the lack of emotional support or even engagement.

I don't have any advice and I am still figuring it out, but the things I have realised so far are that a) you need to stay focused on processing your grief and sadness in a healthy way, because his approach can derail you. Don't push it inward, or end up focusing all your attention on him. I realised a few months ago that an instance of DH being careless had meant I'd refocused a lot of my sorrow on his inadequate support rather than remaining aware it was sorrow for the grief and focus on the memory of my missing relative. Secondly I have sought a lot of emotional support elsewhere. I might not have previously done this but I let myself do it this time and it has literally saved my life. To sit with friends who are secure enough to really come into your emotional space. I think previously this would have felt almost like a betrayal of my DH, letting others in that space, but I've had to do it to survive. It has also reassured me that I am healthy inside. At points where I was asking my DH to engage more he literally said 'go and find someone else to tell'.

My DH has other things that make me aware it is not just an emotional blindness which is out of his control. About his own sorrows he will take to bed for days on end and cry openly in front of the children and be generally haphazard and totally unregulated. So it isn't like he doesn't know it's there, but rather I feel he is unwilling to let me have access to the emotional bandwidth.

Unsurprisingly, I'm thinking of leaving. The whole thing works if I just put up and shut up, but I'm not sure that's something I'm willing to do for the rest of my life. I understand your predicament OP, and am sorry for you. Be gentle to yourself, even if he won't.

Hope you're ok, OP

He can lack empathy, my exh was like this.

However your dh doesn't only lack empathy, but he also appears to be deliberately cruel. The comment about climate change and not talking to doctor was unnecessary and horrid, that's not lacking empathy, that's being horrid. Lacking empathy is being unable to put yourself in someone's shoes, it's not about being unable to understand being sad. People can lack empathy and still understand and appreciate why someone might be sad, especially because a loved one is ill.

The way I see it, he's either a psycho and truly doesn't understand any emotion or he's being deliberately cruel and horrid to upset you.

@Exhaustedpenguin my husband is very similar. It's a very lonely place.
Great that you were able to have that conversation with your husband!

I'm really surprised (and a little traumatised) that there are so many of you experiencing similar treatment at the hands of emotionless DH's or DM's. Some of your examples are frighteningly similar to his behaviour.

I know he's been accused of being deliberately cruel and I did think that was true, but I'm not sure it's deliberate. Which means he can't change. For example today we were driving and a pedestrian stepped out as I was driving at 40. I slammed on the brakes and a few minutes later told him that I was a bit shaken up by what had happened as i could've hit them. He replied "well if you had killed him it would be their own stupid fault. You wouldn't be to blame" I think he said it because he thought it would help but all it does is ignore the feelings of fear i was telling him about.

Yesterday he revealed that because he has a difficult job when he sees traumatic things or hears about them, he has deliberately shut off his emotions to do his job effectively. I told him that I'm his wife not his job, but i think there is obviously a truth in what he's said and he's acknowledged that he is cold and lacking emotion at home.

It's helped a lot hearing your stories and also seeing that some people have escaped from their situations

Hello,
I don’t want to hijack your thread, OP, but have read it at a time when I could have written almost exactly the same post. I have made up my mind to leave several times, most recently 2 years ago, but each time I back down - convincing myself that he will change. Last time he started counselling, which is ongoing, and it helped at first.

But I’ve realised, again, that the impact on my children is terrible. I cannot communicate with him about anything that is more than surface level, and this includes parenting our children. I won’t go into detail now, but watching our 9 year old DS practically beg for tiny scraps of attention is now breaking me and I have to act.

@exhaustedpenguin, two things that stand out to me in your update are him basically refusing to give you what you're asking for because he thinks its pointless and him not being able to cope when he can't fix things. Both are entirely about him and he doesn't seem able to view your emotional distress through any other lens than his own. Presumably the entire point of your conversation with him was to try and get him to understand your feelings and respond in a manner that would help you, a point he seems to have missed. Some of your examples are quite shocking to me, he doesn't seem to hold any sympathy for anyone or let anyone off the hook for taking full responsibility for their actions. To him there are no accidents in life, just stupid people. I think this is a particularly bad attitude to teach your children. I hope you're feeling ok this morning

There are tests which measure empathy used by psychologists as part of a suite of tests for both children and adults. DS has been tested twice as a teen and doesn't meet the ASD criteria but the tests confirm he lacks empathy. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be anything you can do about it, it's not learned behaviour. We have never been able to sit down and properly discuss but I hope we can in the future once there is enough maturity to try and manage. Would knowing they genuinely couldn't do anything to change their behaviour help anyone?

I had a friend who died suddenly of adult sudden death syndrome.

When I got upset, DP said "when was the last time you saw her"
"Three years, but we kept in touch, had been through a alot and had plans to see each other"

....."well then, what are you upset about? You hadn't seen her for ages."

It's a shocker and I regularly tell him he lack empathy.

He is however, ex serving forces and has been through alot. It goes some way to explain his lack of empathy for people dying.

Still doesn't help the partner. So sorry you DH is this way, op. When leaving isn't an option I can only sympathise with you. I found just not expecting anything from them in terms of kind words and support, helps. Turn to yourself, or family, a trusted friend and accept this is who your partner is.

Just read the update that says your DH works in traumatic job role, similar to my partner then, I think its traits they have to pick up, or something exaggerated from years of working in a traumatic career.

The fact that your his wife won't make any difference, I'm afraid they see everything this way, as empathy isn't something you can just turn off and on.

What are the things that attracted you to him? He must have had kind, loving or romantic moments towards you to be married with children. Prehaps a focus on bringing some of that back might help?

I'm sorry, he shouts at you in the street? And the children? Why?

@Unsure1983

I dont think that sounds like he has no empathy. He is trying to fix it for you by trying to spin the situation in a positive light. Maybe next time try telling him you dont need him to fix it as it wont help just listen to you and give you a cuddle and then you will feel supported. He will probably do it. I think he wants to make you happy but is just a bit useless at knowkng what to say.

Yes, my mother is like this. She’s completely incapable of actually acknowledging that something uncontrollable is happening that no platitude can combat. I’d travelled to my home country to see a friend who was in end of life care in her 30s, and my mother would keep chirping ‘Ah well, you never know’ and ‘Fingers crossed the doctors will have good news’ when she knew my friend was on an end of life pathway, no longer eating or drinking, barely conscious, her kidneys shut down.

*He will also shout at me or the kids in front of friends or in the street because he can't understand why that might be inappropriate. I spoke to him a lot when we were first dating about not doing it, but he does it without thinking.

I don't know. Maybe I should accept that we cant stay together but it sounds so insignificant a reason to end it all*

What? He's shouting at you and your take is that doing it publicly is the problem?

Every post has more red flags in it OP. What are you getting out of this relationship? It sounds abusive.

I've just had an op. DH was ok in first day and now has just sort of withdrawn. Spent all weekend pretty much ignoring me and doing outside jobs. Asked for some company and he came up and fell asleep. I say I feel down (long recovery needed) and he asks why. He doesn't offer any kind of emotional support or give me a hug and kind word. If I say I feel bad he wants to know why. But in a fixing kind of way. This morning he just snapped at me and this is after me being awake all night. I feel so lonely and physically frustrated and exhausted. I read the riot act some months ago as our relationship is totally non physical. But it was a waste of breath and all back to how it was. Him stressed about money and work snd me absorbing everything else. Our children are both SEN so I'm sure this is at the root of it.

for you, @Exhaustedpenguin
I'm so so sorry for all you are going through.
My dh is like this too. It is very hard and like you I have been staying because I love him and want the children to grow up in a stable environment. I'm not sure what's for the best anymore now. He has massive attachment issues from his own childhood that he will not address or discuss. I know he loves the kids but he leaves the parenting to me generally. If they hurt themselves he will comfort them but comes out with phrases like 'you're ok' if they don't respond immediately to that tactic he doesn't know what to do so will just amble off and leave it to me.
This thread has made me sad for all of us on it.

Hello @Exhaustedpenguin, sorry to hear that important people in your life are at a tough moment.

I've been with my DH for over 20 years now, he sounds similar to yours. My dad is very ill, I'm not very close to him but that brings its own guilt and sadness. DH honestly couldn't give a shit. I asked him the other day would he both keeping in touch with my parents if I wasn't around, he didn't have to think about it 'no'.
The whole sickness & health, better& worse vows mean absolutely nothing to my DH. It is single mindedly all about him.
The good side is - we can have a superficial laugh together, he is steady and very fond of DIY as his hobby. Sometimes it feels like this is enough.

Sometimes when my Dds are teenage hard work or disaster strikes - death, illness, social obligation I know I'm on my own.

I'm learning to disassociate from DH, so I book tickets for stuff I want to do without consulting and I worked away pre Covid for a chunk of time, had an amazing time, realised I was not an anxious person, I'd just been forced into a role.