Muddled

[Namebunny]

Hello, Dh has been a bit controlling in the past and I’m having counselling to stand up for myself, so things are improving but I’m still getting confused.
He asked me to book a train ticket for his weekend away with the boys as he is too busy.this doesn’t feel right somehow. I said I’m nervous because I’ll get it wrong and you’ll shout. He said he wouldn’t.as we had the calendar out, I reminded him I need to visit my mum for a week ( lives miles away) ( I always get nervous at this, it becomes such a massive production and I don’t know why) and he insists it’s when the kids are off school for a day, as he can ‘struggle on for the rest of the week’ ( they’re teens ffs)
Then I stupidly saw half term was coming up. Because we didn’t go away over summer because of his work, ( we also didnt go out for my birthday beacause of his work) he promised half term we’d go somewhere and his parents offered to chip in. Stupidly I wondered out loud about taking us all to see mum, as it’s obviously cheaper and he said’ ure not going on 2 holidays ‘ I explained it’s not a holiday, it’s visiting family. He immediately starts on because I’m not bringing in an income and how am I going to pay for it. I know I’m not, I managed to say that I can get a full time job and you would be doing a lot less work on your own job and he kept quiet. I feel that he’s wanting me to do all the boring house/ kids stuff but he can still put me down because he’s earning. In the past hs very cross when I got a shop job as it doesn’t pay enough apparantly. So now I’m trying hard to improve my skill set. I was feeling like a failure because it’s taking me so long, but I am realising that he interrupts me a lot - It feels like I do a lot of listening and supporting to him ( he needs me to go to tescos with him. Or shouldn’t have to do that because it’s the weekend) but it feels if we talk about me it’s more critiscised and why haven’t I done x or y yet. Today I said I was too busy for a walk and he pulled a poor me face and said he’d go on his own then, which left me feeling awful, but yesterday I went on a walk and felt so drained afterwards ( I find it hard to switch from learning to listening) it took me ages to pick up again. He also seems to think he cooks dinner all the time. And we all have to be amazed. Then he can’t clear up because he cooked, but that rule doesn’t apply to me, because he works and is tired. Then he tells me I should keep the dinners simple like he does. Grr! He leaves clothes all over his room, and finally asked for me to help him put the sheet back on, and dumped all the old orange peel on the cupboard. Is this normal behaviour? I’m not tidy but I feel this is yuck.
Also very wierd about ds shoes - he didn’t like ones id ordered until I said I’ll send them back and get others, they’ll be £40 He got cross because that’s £80 out of our account at one time. We have the money in the account.So then I didn’t know what to do and then he got irritated because I hadn’t sorted it.
And then he’ll go to this weekend with his mates and be all flash Harry.
I don’t understand. I mean I do - he wants me to earn and I want to earn, and of course,more kids I had a great job. it just doesn’t seem to happen. And I don’t know why.
Confused! Sorry to ramble. I need to get rid of all this confusion so I can get on and learn before other stuff. I just don’t know how to make it fair. While I’m not earning. Or what even is fair.

It sounds like he wants to control you by making sure you don’t work so you have to keep financially relying on him. He wants you to have to need him, to have to ask, and he enjoys the power he has over you.

Thanks poppymaewrite. So lovely to hear from someone out there.
Why would anyone want to do that? Surely it’d be better if I was earning?

Things are not really improving at all; he is now showing you different ways in how to control you. There are examples of financial and emotional abuse shown towards you in your post above.

What sort of counselling are you having (Relate?); does this counsellor have any understanding whatsoever of abusive behaviour within a relationship?.

Controlling behaviour like he shows you is abusive behaviour and is about him wanting absolute power and control over you. Giving you spaghetti head is par for the course for such men.

What you need to do ultimately re him is to leave him, not counselling for you to be able to stand up for yourself. Men like described like supposedly strong and independent women because they see them as an additional challenge to bring down to their level.

What do you think your boys are learning about relationships here; they are learning to behave just like their awful father does because they see you still accepting this ill treatment of you.

If you read "Why does he do that?" written by Lundy Bancroft you will find your H in those pages. He does this because he can, he actively enjoys all this power he has over you along with your discomfort (he knows how you feel and he does not care at all. All he cares about is his own self and how he appears to others in the outside world, image is all important to abusers). My guess is that he is indeed all sweetness and light to people in the outside world, it is behind closed doors that his true nature emerges.

He wants you to remain at home to cater to his every whim. He will actively sabotage any and all attempts for you to go back into the workplace. Again this is usual behaviour for controlling men to exert against their chosen target.

What did you learn about relationships when you were growing up, did you see similar treatment to your mum from your dad?.

I would also suggest you contact Womens Aid because they certainly would be able to advise you further.

He also made you leave this shop job you're referring to didn't he?.

Oh crumbs Attila, that sounds serious. He is a nice chap on the whole, I wouldn’t have thought woman’s aid would be interested. yes he does become more ‘normal and fun’ when we are out. Its not that he ignores me at home, though.
It’s like he’s trying..? He did say hello, and I guessed he wanted something ( was right!) and He actually went to get milk on Sunday, Does he really deliberately know how I feel and not care? It sometimes feels that he’s a bit wrapped up in himself - he doesnt seem to pay attention when we speak to him. Other times he’ll be super helpful, But then he works hard ( too hard maybe). He’ll work 8 .30 till 6 or 6.30 and is then tired. Can you be on a spectrum for abusive behaviour, so it’s sort of a bit controlling? He has been told that his dad and mum are quite narcissistic but believes he isn’t.
The counsellor has been working on getting my confidence up. She did say he puts me down so much I no longer notice.
I have just deleted all my rambling! Enough o say, ‘ spaghetti head’ is a great phrase!
Thank you, I will read Bancroft.

I left thanks to covid..but actually I’d asked to go part time ..( can’t remember why) Every time i left fo work it was always a problem. A sour look or shrug. He’d say because it wouldn’t lead to anything I was wasting my time.
I’d have thought money wise it’s better than nothing.

I got a lovely job wfh in covid, and he somehow claimed it was thanks to him. I felt always interrupted when I was doing it ( but maybe I’m disorganised ) a whole 4 hours seemed impossible and I found it difficult to keep track. He said I wasn’t charging enough and I should claim more hours, stupidly I believed him and, of course I lost the job. But I’m not sure I can blame him for that, or maybe it was spaghetti head. I do remember being very muddled. Not so muddled now, thank goodness. But it’s taken a while.

Sorry, I’ve been going on far too much. Skip all this!Thank you!

Namebunny

re your comment:-
"Oh crumbs Attila, that sounds serious. He is a nice chap on the whole, I wouldn’t have thought woman’s aid would be interested. yes he does become more ‘normal and fun’ when we are out. Its not that he ignores me at home, though".

It is serious; controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour. Many abusive men are quite plausible to those in the outside world too.

He belittles you at home and your boys pick up on all this too from him. They are learning from dad too how to treat women. It is also for their sake that you need to leave this man; they cannot afford to keep on learning such damaging lessons about relationships.

Please contact Womens AId; they will certainly want to hear from you and will help you to leave if leaving is what you want. Abuse is NOT just physical in nature. Your counsellor is right; he puts you down so much now you no longer notice. I would think that he will start on your boys soon enough too if he does not already.

See what I mean about him actively sabotaging your attempts to get into the workplace; he takes all the credit for your hard graft and in the other job his suggestions got you laid off. He won't ever allow you to work outside the home whilst you are with him because he wants you to remain wholly dependent on him i.e. controlled by him. He will not change nor stop at wanting to punish you like he is doing, the only way out for you is to go onto divorce him.

@Namebunny

Thanks poppymaewrite. So lovely to hear from someone out there. Why would anyone want to do that? Surely it’d be better if I was earning?

The point is to control you and have power over you. This is just one way to do that. If it wasn't this it would be something else.

You are being abused. If you stay, you will continue to be abused in a variety of ways. He knows what he's doing, this is how he wants things.

Abuse is about power and control, not physical violence or nasty "abusive" words. Abusers are normal people not monsters, they all have nice qualities (as do murderers).

The belief that if you change yourself the abuse will stop is the falsehood he has given you - it's a very effective way to keep his power over you, because it distracts you from what's really going on and wastes your time and energy.

The only thing worth putting energy into is leaving.

Freedom Programme and Women's Aid are your next steps.

Oh. Crumbs. Thank you. Much to think about.
Reading back, it does sound concerning. Hard to see when you are in it.
You’ve been amazingly helpful, thank you .
Reading Bancroft tonight .

Every time i left fo work it was always a problem. A sour look or shrug. He’d say because it wouldn’t lead to anything I was wasting my time.

This is classic domestic violence.

Hello again. We have just had the most awful row - we were late for school when he popped up and started being all Victorian dad about ds shoes. It turns out I don’t care about the kids as ds has tatty shoes and there is no food. He went to cook ds a snack and I’m supposed to gather from this that I need to go shopping. I thought he was caring for his son! And no, he can’t write anything on the shopping list as he is working and tired.
He does work very hard, and is obviously nervous about losing his job, but won’t join a union, says insurance is too expensive.
Basically he will talk over me and will always bat whatever I say back at me. With,’you don’t, you never, you always’ i twist things to make me seem better. I fanny about, ive had plenty of time to get my skills better and get a job.
I was really upset because he’s basically saying I’ve wasted my time over the last year. I was listening, encouraging, supporting the kids and him as he talks endlessly about his job.
He said he’ll set up seperate bank accounts then I’ll have to get a job. He’d love to have my life and swan off to the supermarket. He said this isn’t working.
Don’t know what to think. He does have all the pressure of bringing in an income and does an amazing job. He gets resentful of me. It’s like a yearly thing, and usually when I want to visit family.He’s now telling me I could have been a teacher - he doesn’t remember all the,’oh don’t got to maths class tonight, and leave me alone, I’ll teach you’. I’m just twisting things. I could have, should have got a job by now.
I’m afraid I got cross back and accused him of not listening, talking over me, batting everything back, it’s not a discussion. Stupidly I said that it’s a childish, bullying tactic. Oops. He said, ‘you never listen, you always..’ which was actually funny, I guess.
My confidence I’ve built up so carefully has just plummeted. My cv just disappears without trace, it’s so old. How can I persuede someone to take me on? I was already to charge ahead and now I’m Feeling useless again.

Bollocks.

Sorry for swearing. But at least I did! Shows some spark of oomph I guess.

He's very abusive. He's not a decent man at all. I'm sorry you're in this mess but you can get out of it.

All par for the course sadly for those on the receiving end of abuse in a controlling relationship. The argument was of his doing and manufactured. Keeping you in line and or making you feel useless was the intention. He was exerting more power and control over you here; doing that to you makes him feel better.

This relationship is further going to go one way too - downwards. He actively sabotaged your attempts to get back into the workplace and when you were there his "suggestions" caused you to lose that job you had.

Please for your sake and that of your kids, get this man out of your day to day lives asap. Consider seeking legal advice with a view to separation and divorce. When he is out of the house contact Womens Aid.

This man really and truly only cares about his own self; you and the kids are not of any direct concern to him. He makes life a thousand times harder for you all than it should be. And his leaving the orange peel on the bed is disgusting too; it shows contempt and that its "your job" to clear up after him. He with his job (that he is not doing very well at all really, bet he puts on a show of doing much whilst basically accomplishing little) is a man you really should no longer be in a relationship with.

How else can you be helped into leaving your abuser?. Don't forget either the kids are picking up on all this too. This is no legacy to be leaving them.

Thanks closeyoureyesandsee. Good name!
What’s normal behaviour? Am I just presenting him in a bad light and moaning and presenting me as fabulous? I’m not that great at housework. We do run out of bread. I should have done x and y and got a job. Somehow I just get stuck - like the shoes. It’s so hard to unmuddle. I was just going to get the new shoes that ds will wear. Dp usually says ‘get the best, why are you being so tight’ and suddenly it’s ‘ he needs discipline, he’s got you wrapped around his little finger. You are too lazy to take him into town’ ( he doesn’t get that it’s better to get them online) sorry, moaning.

Dear OP please don't apologise to us, you are doing nothing wrong. He's got you so you don't know if you're coming or going. I have a strong suspicion that left to your own devices you would manage or at least have enough headspace to learn how to manage. This sounds like a horribly claustrophobic environment where you are constantly second guessing yourself. It sounds like he has been gas-lighting you for years. You deserve better, figure out what you could get in benefits, figure out how to leave.

"Am I just presenting him in a bad light and moaning and presenting me as fabulous?"

No no and thrice NO!!!.

He is a controlling man and controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour.

This man lives there too; he is equally responsible for what happens in that household. It should not just fall to you alone. He will continue to make you feel muddled and or have spaghetti head if you choose to remain with him for your own reasons.

I would also think you have been gaslit by him for the vast majority of your relationship. Not at first mind you, he was able to keep up the "nice man" act long enough to draw you in. His true controlling nature has come at you by degrees over a longish period of time.

No, it is not you. He is an abuser. This is how abusers operate.

Nobody deserves to be abused.

I don't think you sound fabulous, you sound like a normal human being who has been subjected to years of coercive control and now repeats the lies her abuser has fed her to justify his abuse.

Normal people run out of bread sometimes. It doesn't justify domestic abuse.

Pp are right. As long as you choose to stay with him you will continue to feel confused and useless.

Just like if you get lost on a hike up a mountain, if you just sit there contemplating how hungry and thirsty you are but do nothing to help yourself then you'd slowly die from exposure. If you called mountain rescue for help and got up and got yourself to safety under their direction then you'd be able to nourish yourself and rebuild your strength.

You can call Women's Aid. You can call the Freedom Programme. But if instead you choose to just sit debating how confused and useless you feel then you will continue to feel confused and useless.

Which would be a shame, because you're clearly not useless.

Can you imagine talking to your children, all through their childhood, the way this man talks to you?
How do you think they would be now, if you had done that?

There is no way to live happily with someone who behaves like that and it sounds like there's very little chance of him changing.
So you have to make other plans.

Going back to your very first sentence...

I’m having counselling to stand up for myself

Unless this means standing up for yourself by valuing yourself enough to leave him, then it is a futile unhelpful goal. Nothing will be achieved by wasting your life trying to debate with an abuser.

He is not interested in rational argument. He is only motivated by power over you. He would argue that gravity is turned off overnight if he thought it would control you.

It is a waste of breath, time and energy trying to debate with him or trying to debate with us what he says.

Put your time and energy into leaving him. That is the only way your life improves.

All your posts scream that you are being abused by this man
It is actually heartbreaking

The only way you will ever stop feeling this way is by leaving him
Thankfully also the children are not tony so as to be used in his games which they would have been

Reclaim your life before he finishes the job of ruining it in that your are a shell of self doubt, subdued and confused so much that your fight and sense of instinct has gone.

See a solicitor
Contact women’s aid and get some local specialist help there are some fantastic organisations out there who will have seen all of this many times before.

You deserve to be happy and you deserve better. He IS abusive snd he will not change