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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

Really hurt - best way forward

48 replies

Bergitte · 28/08/2021 18:29

We have some close friends we've had for over 25 years. We've holidayed with them quite often and it's always been great (or so I thought!) We recently stayed in a cottage with them for a few days. They invited us ages ago so not a case of us being unwelcome guests or anything...
Context: They have always known our DS (14). He's gorgeous but has been hard work at times since babyhood... Definitely not NT and had terrible meltdowns when he was small. The time-out step etc didn't work. He struggled in reception and I flagged it as possible ASD which the teacher agreed with. He was observed by an EP and it was agreed we'd watch and wait. School improved dramatically and we didn't get him assessed as he was happy and made some good friends (in some ways we regret this/in other ways not). Re his behaviour, we sought advice and had some success with being very consistent, reward charts and consequences etc. However, when he's (sensory) overloaded (noise/crowds) he can be really arsey and needs to move away from the situation. As a teenager he can usually do this now. His behaviour is great at school nowadays although he has a time-out card in case he gets overloaded.
Our friends couldn't have children which has been hell for them. They're in their 50s now but I know it still hurts.
Anyway, during the holiday our DS was generally fine. He spent some of the time gaming and was quite happy to come on walks. He has always been polite to our friends. On a couple of occasions, DS was snappy and rude to me in front of DFriend. One was in an outdoor cafe so he may have been overloaded - he swore and I quietly told him that wasn't acceptable but I couldn't make too much fuss as it may have blown up.
Later on, after he'd had a few drinks, DFriend decided to talk to me about DS. He said he didn't like the way DS spoke to me and it seemed like he didn't respect us. He said that he felt that DS lacked resilience and asked what he did around the house. There was other stuff and tbh I was too shocked to say much. I was really aware that I didn't want DS to hear any of this and that I needed time to process. I managed to contain my feelings and got on with the evening. However, I couldn't sleep that night and did quite a bit of crying. I told DH and he was really hurt and flummoxed. We finished the visit as positively as possible but I couldn't shake feeling upset. They invited us away at Christmas and we made the right noises but I'm not keen to do residential with them at the moment.
This was a few weeks ago now and I'm still so upset. I know we need to talk to our friends but just don't feel ready. It's made us feel like we're shitty parents and they don't like our DS. I know we're not perfect but we've tried bloody hard and it's been such a tough gig at times bringing him at times. We keep trying to work out why our DFriend decided to say what he did to me. I've no idea if his DW knows. I tend to think it's best not to comment on other people's parenting but maybe that's just me? Just wondered what people's thoughts were. I've no illusions about my DS but am so cross.

OP posts:

Angrymum22 · 28/08/2021 19:36

Unless you’ve are a parent to a teenager you have no idea what it’s like. Somewhere around age 14 ( earlier for girls) they transform into a Jekyll/Hyde character and you have no idea what reaction you are going to get. Somewhere around 17/18 (if your lucky) they become human again.
Ignore your friends observations. It’s very sad that they will never enjoy the parenting experience but that’s not your fault.

trumpisagit · 28/08/2021 19:43

Their life experience and experiences of your DS are very different to yours.
My imaginary children were very different to my real ones!
You need to smile and ignore.
OR
Explain your DS's difficulties to them and how hard it is for him in noisy situations.
Don't lose a long standing friendship over it. It sounds like he was trying to help even if he really doesn't get it.

twinningatlife · 28/08/2021 19:48

Just based on what you've written so I'm guessing there could be a much bigger back story - your post sounds like a huge over reaction and dare I say it a bit of PFB going on?

Fact is your son hasn't been diagnosed with anything so therefore if I'm honest it sounds like you are using a "possible" diagnosis as an excuse for his behaviour.

Your friend has called it has he has seen it - that your son was snappy and rude to his mother. It may well also be that because he doesn't have children he therefore isn't aware of the unspoken rule that you don't ever comment on someone else's parenting

Isn't it better that he asked you about it to your face rather than discussed with his wife whether your son behaved like a little so and so behind your back?

Aren't friends allowed to be honest and ask probing and sometimes difficult questions? Isn't that what sets them apart from merely being just an acquaintance? Clearly he has struck a nerve hence your reaction but if you value your friendship then you'll need to put it behind you

Stigofthedump40 · 28/08/2021 20:02

People without kids always seem to have an opinion.. they havent got a clue.. humour them

GinJeanie · 28/08/2021 21:01

@twinningatlife - really harsh! Lots of kids have additional needs but don't have a diagnosis. I'm an SEN teacher and have worked with heaps. You sound like you've had a bad day.

Original poster

Bergitte · 28/08/2021 21:19

Thank you for replies. I'm guessing it's complicated somewhat by DFriends not having had kids. So bloody awkward though!
DS is bloody hormonal too - keep forgetting that part of being a 14 year-old too. They know he's "unusual" but think of him as nerdy I think. They've witnessed the two-hour meltdowns and us having to take him away from gatherings when he was younger. We've talked about school when it was awful and they were threatening fixed-term exclusion in reception for DS hitting out/running away.
Anyhow, thanks for the jolt of reality. DH thinks a bit of time is needed but the whole episode has definitely touched a nerve 🙄!

OP posts:

Catlover1970 · 30/08/2021 00:12

Your friend was being protective towards you and was probably jut showing a bit Of frustration at how he felt your son was treating you. Let it go - I’m sure there was no malice intended. Long, close friendships are hard to find and this man obviously cares enough to speak candidly

BeachDrifting · 30/08/2021 04:03

They don’t understand and never will. I wouldn’t lose a 25 year friendship over it. I feel really sorry for them. My idea of parenting was very different to the reality. Is there an element of truth to his statement? How many chores does your DS do on a daily basis? What is his contribution to the running of your household? If he’s doing zero household contribution then your friend has a very valid point and he’s starting to see spoilt behaviour

MyCatDribbles · 30/08/2021 04:13

It’s so hard witnessing abhorrent behaviour from kids to their parents. I’ve seen it a couple of times and it shocked me deeply that the kids got away with it without even a stern word. I would never say anything though but then maybe it’s because I didn’t know them that well. I can imagine your friend, after a few drinks and less inhibitions maybe felt that, after all these years he had to say something, to kind of help you. I can see how it would have been very upsetting for you to hear that, but he may just have had enough with having to see your son speak to you in a certain way. Tough one really. But don’t lose a friendship over it.

Blackbird2020 · 30/08/2021 06:01

Unsolicited advice... that old chestnut...

As the (one of the many) saying goes, unsolicited advice is more about the needs of the giver than the receiver.

If I thought my good friend was genuinely struggling with her DC I would ‘help’ by starting an open-ended conversation about the DC and see where she took it. If she ended up asking me for advice, I’d give it. If not, I’d keep quiet. For all I know, she’s not struggling at all! It’s more that I would be struggling if I were in her shoes!

Why don’t some people learn that unsolicited advice rarely goes down well?! If it were me I’d speak to him and remind him that however well-meaning he thought he was, having a few drinks and then telling you where he thinks you’re going wrong with parenting is definitely not the way to keep a long-term friendship.

Blueberry40 · 30/08/2021 06:24

@Stigofthedump40

People without kids always seem to have an opinion.. they havent got a clue.. humour them

Exactly this!

insidenumber5 · 30/08/2021 06:26

It's impossible to say really without having been there. Your post does read as if you are a bit of a previous parent, and as if you excuse a lot of your DS's behaviour. I have spent time with friends who do this with their badly behaved and rude children and it makes me not want to be around the family. You also seem as over sensitive to criticism as you are lax about your DS's behaviour - 'I needed time to process'/crying for weeks etc. As it stands he doesn't have any diagnosis. Even if he does have ASD, he should still have boundaries and rules and consequences.

I have an acquaintance whose DS is extremely rude and badly behaved. She excuses every incident with 'well I think he has ADHD'. Doesn't want to start the assessment process or anything like that, just wants to say that he might have it. As if it's a get out of jail free card for swearing or punching the other kids. As someone with ADHD myself I find it so offensive that she uses this as a reason to justify bad behaviour and contributes to the inaccurate perception of what ADHD actually means.

farnworth · 30/08/2021 06:54

Sorry you were upset by what your friend said.
To me, it sounded like maybe he is just very concerned for you. If we care about friends we don’t like to see them being sworn at or snapped at - he might think it was a very regular pattern of behaviour. They still asked you away again at Christmas - if they didn’t like your DS they would be unlikely to want to do this.
Your friend also asked what your DS does round the house. To me, that implies how very little he thought DS does. It might be worth having a think about this - does your DS help much? Does he help clear the table after meals, help get meals ready, empty the dishwasher etc. If he does very little, your friend might see as another show of lack of respect, that you run round after your son doing everything. All teenagers are capable of helping!! Sometimes we don’t like what our friends say but, when we reflect unemotionally on what was actually said, it can be very helpful to have an honest point of view.

You also need to be honest with your friends - if a busy outdoor cafe might overload your son, you perhaps need to be more upfront about this.

user1471519931 · 30/08/2021 07:00

It's not too late to get your son a diagnosis - and this may really help him navigate through his life.

rookiemere · 30/08/2021 07:37

Well your DSs behaviour obviously didn't impact them too much or they wouldn't want to go away again with you.
They were really off doing this, they have no DCs they shouldn't be criticising others parenting ( shouldn't really do this even if they do have DCs) .
Not sure what to do now, I'd say you need to reflect before committing to any more holidays together, hopefully that will prompt them to apologise.

NeilBuchananisBanksy · 30/08/2021 07:56

So according to a lot of posters on here, people without children can't ever comment on parenting?

Bollocks to that.

I'm not a politician but I have opinions about politics. I'm no medic but can comment on illness. So why is commenting on children's behaviour so sacrosanct? FFS.

It sounds like they approached it from a kind place - they didn't like how he spoke to you. Hard to tell from here if your son is rude etc or was just being a normal teen.

But to discount them saying anything because they don't have children is just rude.

Maybe it's hit a nerve and that's why you are so bothered by it? Avoiding a meltdown could also be described as walking on eggshells so as not to upset him....

Lolabray · 30/08/2021 08:25

Shoe on the other foot maybe they were upset how he spoke to you. Maybe they didn’t find it acceptable? Everyone feels and thinks differently to us and we have to accept this. I understand it may hurt. I have a teenage son who is very similar. When they swear they often don’t know that they are doing it.

HailAdrian · 30/08/2021 08:32

Even if he does have ASD, he should still have boundaries and rules and consequences.

I wish someone would tell that to my severely autistic DS. 🤣🤣

For those of you banging on about this kid not having a diagnosis, there will be tons and tons of people struggling because they are 'on the spectrum' and undiagnosed.

UnsuitableHat · 30/08/2021 08:43

I wouldn’t appreciate the unsolicited advice and would probably say so. It isn’t coming from a place of kindness to foist your opinions on people (and I’m not sure how relevant it is whether you’re a parent or not- childfree people still have the ability to use judgement and tact). However if your friends are finding your DS difficult to be around they might need to pull back from socialising with you for a while - worth a conversation? I certainly think it’s worth asking your friend not to comment on your parenting again.

Original poster

Bergitte · 30/08/2021 08:46

Thanks again with replies. Just not sure it was our DFriend's place to "intervene". I know my DS's shortcomings but obviously don't want them to impact on other people. We as a family are not in crisis or anything - although our DS does NOT help enough around the house and we know we need to sort that. I guess if I didn't want to spend time with my friend's kids I certainly wouldn't be inviting them on holiday - I'd not be giving advice/feedback though.
@user1471519931 - I worry that ship has sailed for now. DS knows he has sensory stuff (and social interaction issues too) - we have always talked about his brain being wired a bit differently and have offered recently for him to be assessed properly so he can understand better. I wish we'd pushed for it when he was younger. My older DB was diagnosed last yeat as an adult and my DF certainly has traits. Other folk in the family too so it's in the line.
@insidenumber5 - you sound very cross with a total stranger on the internet. I hope you're ok. Have a lovely day .

OP posts:

PegasusReturns · 30/08/2021 08:48

I have a 15 year old DS who can be hard work. Also delightful, but definitely hard work at times.

Try and focus on the fact that your friends care about you. They saw your DS behave appallingly and wanted to check you were ok. It comes from a place of love.

Maybe your DC needs a bit of support, maybe he’s the devil incarnate. Only you really know and it’s mostly irrelevant. They weren’t criticising they were checking in.

80sPadme · 30/08/2021 08:49

@twinningatlife

Just based on what you've written so I'm guessing there could be a much bigger back story - your post sounds like a huge over reaction and dare I say it a bit of PFB going on?

Fact is your son hasn't been diagnosed with anything so therefore if I'm honest it sounds like you are using a "possible" diagnosis as an excuse for his behaviour.

Isn't it better that he asked you about it to your face rather than discussed with his wife whether your son behaved like a little so and so behind your back?

This is a bit

Do you have any idea how hard it is to diagnose a Non- NT child? Years of assessments and waiting lists. We are 6 years in and still no formal diagnosis just recognition that there is 'something' there.

PegasusReturns · 30/08/2021 08:51

It’s so hard witnessing abhorrent behaviour from kids to their parents

It really is, especially when those DC are approaching adulthood.

GoodbyePorpoiseSpit · 30/08/2021 08:56

I think you have to consider that part of your reaction is the desire to protect your son from judgement by people that know him and have been part of his life for a long time... and part is defensiveness. If you’re feeling defensive then consider they are giving you an insight into your parenting that might be useful? Are your boundaries low? Do you put up with your DS being rude to you? It might be understandable in the push and pull of your private home but both you and your DS need to understand that other people witnessing it will form an opinion of him that neither of you like. Perception is the reality for them

LittleRedPill · 30/08/2021 09:06

OP, if you suspect that your DS is not NT then I would really urge you to pursue the diagnostic route as a matter of urgency now. A formal diagnosis would help him to access additional support at school and at university (if he chooses to go) as well as giving him protection under the Disability Discrimination Act and Equality Act. I know that the assessment process can be long and frustrating but I would get the ball rolling.

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