Really hurt - best way forward

[Bergitte]

We have some close friends we've had for over 25 years. We've holidayed with them quite often and it's always been great (or so I thought!) We recently stayed in a cottage with them for a few days. They invited us ages ago so not a case of us being unwelcome guests or anything...
Context: They have always known our DS (14). He's gorgeous but has been hard work at times since babyhood... Definitely not NT and had terrible meltdowns when he was small. The time-out step etc didn't work. He struggled in reception and I flagged it as possible ASD which the teacher agreed with. He was observed by an EP and it was agreed we'd watch and wait. School improved dramatically and we didn't get him assessed as he was happy and made some good friends (in some ways we regret this/in other ways not). Re his behaviour, we sought advice and had some success with being very consistent, reward charts and consequences etc. However, when he's (sensory) overloaded (noise/crowds) he can be really arsey and needs to move away from the situation. As a teenager he can usually do this now. His behaviour is great at school nowadays although he has a time-out card in case he gets overloaded.
Our friends couldn't have children which has been hell for them. They're in their 50s now but I know it still hurts.
Anyway, during the holiday our DS was generally fine. He spent some of the time gaming and was quite happy to come on walks. He has always been polite to our friends. On a couple of occasions, DS was snappy and rude to me in front of DFriend. One was in an outdoor cafe so he may have been overloaded - he swore and I quietly told him that wasn't acceptable but I couldn't make too much fuss as it may have blown up.
Later on, after he'd had a few drinks, DFriend decided to talk to me about DS. He said he didn't like the way DS spoke to me and it seemed like he didn't respect us. He said that he felt that DS lacked resilience and asked what he did around the house. There was other stuff and tbh I was too shocked to say much. I was really aware that I didn't want DS to hear any of this and that I needed time to process. I managed to contain my feelings and got on with the evening. However, I couldn't sleep that night and did quite a bit of crying. I told DH and he was really hurt and flummoxed. We finished the visit as positively as possible but I couldn't shake feeling upset. They invited us away at Christmas and we made the right noises but I'm not keen to do residential with them at the moment.
This was a few weeks ago now and I'm still so upset. I know we need to talk to our friends but just don't feel ready. It's made us feel like we're shitty parents and they don't like our DS. I know we're not perfect but we've tried bloody hard and it's been such a tough gig at times bringing him at times. We keep trying to work out why our DFriend decided to say what he did to me. I've no idea if his DW knows. I tend to think it's best not to comment on other people's parenting but maybe that's just me? Just wondered what people's thoughts were. I've no illusions about my DS but am so cross.

OP what you are describing is a sadly common reaction from people who don't understand SEN. Please ignore comments about diagnosis because it's incredibly ignorant. My DS1 is diagnosed but we did have a period where we genuinely considered if it was the right way to go. That label sticks and we decided we would only go for the label if he needed support.

DS1 is ASD and both DP and I have ASD siblings (DP on the more severe end ) and my DF is ASD as is my nephew so we have strong understanding of the indicators. Even if we had decided not to go for diagnosis it wouldn't have made him less ASD but there are groups if very silly gatekeepers who need validation through diagnosis. Honestly it's just ignorance.

With DS1 I have lost count of the people who can absolutely tell me what I should or should not be doing. In reality every SEN child is different.

Some mean we'll and if that's the case with your friend a quiet word helps. I've had to gently point out that commenting on SEN parenting without any experience is inappropriate and whilst I know they mean well they have overstepped. I generally find the ones who really did mean well will apologise and back off.

Those who don't and just need to witter will argue and they get swiftly dispatched.

Try not to take it to heart. Everyone is an expert when it's not their child, there is so many ridiculous gatekeepers of "SEN " and what they view as legitimate. It truly is just a sign of ignorant thinking.

Have a quiet calm word. Most reasonable people will realise they have overstepped. If they don't then take stronger action.

@GoodbyePorpoiseSpit - you're right, defensive and embarrassed I guess. I guess I'm just sad it's potentially affecting our friendships as a family. Tbf, I've always worried about the impression DS makes on people and obviously want him to coexist harmoniously with others as an adult. We will send him to his room/take away phone or screen time when he's rude but also spend time trying to teach him social skills e.g. you need to say goodbye to people when they leave, make small talk etc. I've no idea whether this is normal but it feels like we have to spell these things out to him and that modelling them isn't enough. Luckily, he's very well-behaved at school and usually only has a couple of incidents a year of getting upset over a piece of work or something. He has a group of like-minded mates which really helps I think.
@LittleRedPill - Thank you. I tend to agree with you but DS is against this at the moment. I'm going to look into it anyway I think. He's never wanted to be "different" yet he is a bit. We bought him ear defenders in primary - he wouldn't wear them, a chewy pendant (the same). I think we've made a grave error not pursuing it when he was younger tbh, I really regret it.

Your friends came from a place of caring. Bossy, uniformed and opinionated admittedly but caring.
I hate to ask but how have you got to 14 without anyone else doing this to you? It's such a regular part of being an SEN parent. I mean it's horrible but you grow a thicker skin.
Mostly they were commenting on teenage stuff too.
You can't control their actions just your own reaction. Do you think you're more sensitive right now as he approaches adult hood and your scaffolding isn't enough?
Do you need some extra support for this next stage?

I don't think it was your friends place to voice an opinion, but people with dc tend to realise this, those without have a very different view of parenting, especially if they can't have dc. Must be c difficult for them to watch from the outside, see what's going on, have an opinion, but not realise how unrealistic that opinion is.

If you value their friendship I'd put the comments to one side. Realise that they are entitled to an opinion, but that opinion is none of your business. But if you do decide to go away with them again, have some choice words to shut them down should they try to 'helpfully offer advice' again. If you feel it will clear the air you could drop them a quick message re your ds, that way you won't be on edge if you do go away with them again should your son be a teenager

@PicaK - interesting (and depressing) it happens more to SEN parents. DS is more likely to be rude to us in front of family or our very closest family friends as I guess he feels (too) relaxed. He is on best behaviour with people he knows less well. I guess people have thought it/not said anything over the years. We have taken DS away and apologised for his behaviour (and got him to apologise) on occasions so maybe we got in there first 😕! The hormones are definitely making him more difficult at times (I can tell as his spots get worse too) but overall he's not particularly extreme any more. He always apologises spontaneously and with much remorse after a row. I feel like we can cope as it's so much much easier than when he was small. However, I do wonder if he needs to be assessed so he can cope ok if he goes to college/uni and then beyond. We're probably propping him up too much I fear.

I know how you must feel. One of our dc had behavioural issues (they are not NT) and certain family members would make comments at times which were hurtful (plus other kid's parents, club leaders etc and of course we had lots of conversations with school).

My family knew all about it but after one stay together, I got an angry letter from one of them about the DC's behaviour. In utter fury and indignation, I wrote a long email back explaining exactly how it was from my point of view and why the DC was as they were.

If I had left it, I probably wouldn't have written it but.......it had a very good effect. My family member was profusely apologetic and understanding. It took me a few months to get to the point of actually wanting to see them again as I had been so hurt, but we did get back on good terms and all has been well since.

Might be worth a try? My family member also doesn't have children so I think giving my pov as a parent struck a chord.

I think you are being over sensitive. All kids can be rude to their parents SEN or not. Mine have done it in front of friends and friends have pulled the kids up on it and vice versa with their kids or nieces and nephews etc. I don't see the issue here - just because he has SEN doesn't mean he should get away with being disrespectful and just because they don't have SEN doesn't mean they won't be disrespectful. Perhaps you are giving your DS too ich leeway on account of his SEN? Regardless in my world friends tell the kids off directly in these situations

Well does he do anything about the house OP? At that age surely yes?

@TheWholeJingbang - no, he doesn't do enough which is our fault. Feeds/walks the dog and tidies his room (under duress) atm. He often cooks with support. We both work long hours and have been pretty lax about this. He's started doing the dishwasher at weekends so DFriend's feedback has done some good. I'd have happily taken this advice from my DM but not sure it was DFriend's place tbf.

@Onelifeonly - thank you for your reply. Great to hear your family responded positively and things are so much better. Communication is key I know but it feels so flipping awkward. I think I will check in to make sure they actually want to spend time with DS - otherwise, it's going to feel like treading on eggshells in the future

Oh, this is a difficult one OP. Sympathy to you. I have very close friends with an extremely difficult child and it is extremely hard seeing them struggle so much due to his behaviour. We spend many, many hours talking about him and how difficult things are and at this point I feel a little bit like a surrogate parent because he is so often the topic of conversation! I wonder if perhaps your DFriends also feel a little like this, and it has subconsciously emboldened them to pass comment in a way they might not have done otherwise? They clearly care about you and have been good friends in the past as well as supporting you with your difficulties with DS. So it does sound like their comments - no matter how clumsy - come from a good place. I also suspect you know there is some truth to them and that's partly why it has been so upsetting. It is incredibly hard to hear criticism of our children, even - or perhaps especially - when it's something we're worried about ourselves. I know it always makes me instantly defensive and upset.

Does your friend know of your son's struggles, if not explain them to them so they have a better understanding. If they don't know he suffers in certain situations then it will come across as rude behaviour.

Not every is going to like your child . Start by accepting that .

@Bergitte
No I wouldn’t appreciate it either

I have a child with ASD and had to endure for years people querying why he didn’t speak, why so I let him sit in a buggy he’s four (cos he feels safe), why do we do sleep (ditto)

It’s exhausting and that was just from my family. I know they though he was thoroughly spoiled

At 9 he’s very much better and it’s paid off for us

I Imagine teenage years will revert to tantrums and anxiety again. I’ve got both my kids into a firm touring I’d housework and regular mealtimes and high expectations re behaviour because I’m hoping to future proof myself to some extent

@TheWholeJingbang - sorry you've been through that with others. You sound like a great Mum.
Re tantrums/meltdowns etc I guess it depends on the child. Our DS had horrifying meltdowns as a child. They'd last two hours and he'd fall asleep in a heap. When out, I'd sometimes have to lock him in the car and wait outside as it was too dangerous to drive etc. He's grown out of them though and doesn't do it as a teen. I genuinely thought he would with the hormones etc. He's much likely to be grumpy, arsey and rude which we have to clamp down on (over and over and over again🙄). Hopefully, things won't revert for you. I have a friend whose DS has a diagnosis of ASD and although transition into secondary was tough, she says the teenage years haven't been as bad as early years either. Wishing you well .

@Bergitte

Thanks again with replies. Just not sure it was our DFriend's place to "intervene". I know my DS's shortcomings but obviously don't want them to impact on other people. We as a family are not in crisis or anything - although our DS does NOT help enough around the house and we know we need to sort that. I guess if I didn't want to spend time with my friend's kids I certainly wouldn't be inviting them on holiday - I'd not be giving advice/feedback though. *@user1471519931* - I worry that ship has sailed for now. DS knows he has sensory stuff (and social interaction issues too) - we have always talked about his brain being wired a bit differently and have offered recently for him to be assessed properly so he can understand better. I wish we'd pushed for it when he was younger. My older DB was diagnosed last yeat as an adult and my DF certainly has traits. Other folk in the family too so it's in the line. *@insidenumber5* - you sound very cross with a total stranger on the internet. I hope you're ok. Have a lovely day .

Mmm, interesting response. I'm not at all cross, why would I be? It's not my life. I do infer a lot from your passive aggressive and defensive responses to any opinions that you don't like and think that this sort of attitude is likely not to be conducive to you taking advice on board or eliciting meaningful change in the real world. Sorry that you're so oppositional. Good luck.

@insidenumber5 - sorry if I offended you in anyway in my posts. I'm just not sure where your hostility comes from. My response was because it sounded like you came on wanting a fight which I really don't want.
I've been very grateful for the wide array of differing responses. I've owned that my DS's behaviour can be awful and I get that not everyone will want to hang out with him. What I'm primarily worried about how to handle the situation with a very old friend so we don't make it worse. I probably have been oversensitive but have not "cried for weeks" as you completely misquoted me. I also don't understand the random quotes you've supplied to back up your point.

I'm a mom of a an adult special needs child-no one can honestly understand unless they've walked a mile in our shoes. Discipline, family dynamics, planning for their future is just drastically different than developmentally normal children. I've been told by the father of a sister in law my child needed more discipline and a spanking. I could've lamped the bastard. I do not know what I would've said to a childless adult pontificating on my son. Puberty was awful and my child was committed for a few months until we could get bipolar symptoms treated with appropriate medication. Best of luck

I think it is a rare parent whose back wouldn't go up having received unsolicited advice from friends.

Best to keep opinions to yourself IMO.

I think parents are generally protective so criticism seems very personal.

Parents are often well able to butch about their children, but heaven help anyone else doing it!

@Bergitte I would come back to this thread tomorrow and reconsider whether @insidenumber5 really has been hostile.

As a neutral observer I think you’ve overreacted considerably to her posts and you might want to explore if that is normal for you and whether that affects the way you are reacting to your friends

@EKGEMS - I'm so sorry you've been through so much with your child. I can't imagine how painful it's been to see them suffer to that extent. I really hope that things have stabilised and are brighter nowadays. Sending big hugs

@billy1966 - so true. Your post made me chuckle 😆🤣. I think us parents find it hard to be objective about our own kids and even when we're aware of how awful their behaviour can be, we dont want to hear it from others. I think that's probably universal 😆. Maybe it's a cultural thing and people are more honest/open in other cultures? Who knows

I agree that criticism of your child is hard to take. Partly because sometimes it comes from a place of not understanding and partly because I think we often feel that we as parents could have done more or done better, so it also taps in to our sense of guilt / inadequacy.