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Original poster

friends...your opinions.

28 replies

hls · 01/12/2007 17:56

My oldest friend (of almost 30 years)and I are on the verge of falling out,or disagreeing at least - I can see it coming, as I am very shocked at her attitude towards- yes, relatives at Christmas. She is refusing to have her MIL who is old, and who, if they don't invite her, will spend the day on her own. Her attitude is that she played host for years, even though she didn't enjoy it, and now refuses to do so again.

I just find her attitude to an 80+ yr old so selfish and have more or less said so, and I know she doesn't like hearing that. Should I keep my mouth shut- and has anyone else had these moments when they wonder just what their friends are truly like?

OP posts:
Camillathechicken · 01/12/2007 18:01

personally, if she was a friend of that long standing, i would presume she had damn good reasons to do something so seeminlgy horrible, and presume there was history there i did not know about.

telling people that your view on their family dynamics is selfish or shocking is not going to be a good thing...

sorry !

hildegard · 01/12/2007 18:07

You may be right, but I wouldn't mention it again. What would be the point?

Original poster
hls · 01/12/2007 18:15

I know absolutely everything about her- basically, she resents her MIL for the way she brought up her husband , and blames her for his faults and short-comings in the marriage. They have been on the verge of divorce for years. She has never had a falling out with her MIL but their relationship has dwindled to the odd phone call. Her DH now has to make a choice whether to spend Christmas with her ( his wife) or his mother.

It's very hard to know what to say when a friend tells you her plans for Christamas and says "I just don't see why I should have her".
I want to say because she is old, lonely, has no one else and you should make an effort. I did say that she should be careful not to do anything hat she will regret if this turns out be to MIL last Christmas.

My only answer was "Well I hope my children's partners don't do that to me when if I am 80+ and on my own."

OP posts:
Original poster
hls · 01/12/2007 18:16

Hildegard- it's not an option not to mention it again- I speak to my friend several times a week at times and she will bring it up- how can we not when it's 3 weeks to Christmas and she has a decision to make?

OP posts:
Camillathechicken · 01/12/2007 18:16

so if you know there has been long simmering resentment to MIL and a rocky relationship with her DH, why are you surprised things are coming to a head now? Xmas is a bad time for family problems to come pouring out...is losing a friendship worth getting this point across?

DaisyMoo · 01/12/2007 18:19

Do you like her or want to be friends with her? Because it doesn't sound as though you do? Maybe you need a bit of space. It sounds like rather an intense friendship.

Original poster
hls · 01/12/2007 18:36

Camilla- I am not surprised as the same thing happened last year, although her relationship was more rocky then, and it was more understandable as they had a "reason" - this year, they don't- to the outside world, anyway.

Daisymoo - that's the issue really. This is my "best friend" we go back a long way- yet I find myself asking do I really want a friend who is so callous?

I agree it's not worth risking the friendship for, but at the same time, I am seeing her in a new light- and she isn't the person I thought she was. That's why I asked the question really - my feelings ar on the verge of changing, as I just don't like what I see.

I won't metnion it unless she does and maybe I will just have to say do what you feel is best...but my opinion of her has changed a bit- and that's sad.

OP posts:
hildegard · 01/12/2007 18:49

It is shocking when you find out that someone you respect and care for can behave in a callous manner. Perhaps she will think better of mentioning it to you if she has picked up on your feelings about it. I hope that she doesn't get defensive though, ime people are most stroppy when they KNOW they are in the wrong.

Hope you sort it out and manage to remain friends.

Original poster
hls · 01/12/2007 19:16

hildegard- thanks, yes I hope it works out. I know we will remain friends, but it's just not a nice feeling when yo ufind someone behaving in a way that shocks you.

OP posts:
Pages · 01/12/2007 19:31

Has she done anything else - ever - that has given you "evidence" that she is cruel and heartless? If so, and this is the latest in a line of "transgressions" on her part then maybe you should distance yourself, if you feel that she is not someone you want to remain friends with.

If you are judging her on this situation alone, my advice would be - don't. There may be much more going on than meets the eye.

This is her marriage and her relatives and maybe you don't know the full picture. You do sound a bit overinvolved, hope you don't mind me saying. This isn't really anything to do with you. Are you sure these are not your issues rather than hers?

Hekate · 01/12/2007 19:39

Perhaps the MIL is a totally hateful and malicious cow and the DIL has just had enough? You say this one thing makes you see her in a new light - but honestly, are people just expected to put up with heap upon heap upon heap of shit in the name of 'family'?? Hell no!

You should search for messages about toxic mils on here - there are stories that will make your toes curl! Should each of these women just keep taking the crap that's dished out?

What I am saying is, age is no 'get out of jail free' card. If you are a nasty bint, you shouldn't be excused once you get past a certain age.

Reading between the lines, the mil has caused long term trouble between man and wife. BIG no-no and deserving of a little alone time, imo.

Anyway, the best thing to do, is keep out of it. It doesn't impact on you one way or the other and it doesn't change who your friend is, she just has a breaking point.

Original poster
hls · 01/12/2007 19:58

Pages- no, this is def. not about me or my issues. I know everything about my friend- and vice versa. There is nothing going on which I don't know about. We have spent literally hours talking about her relationships, her relatives, etc etc. Sorry if that sounds arrogant at all - I don't mean it to be, but if you knew what I had supported her with over the years and what she knows about me too, then you'd know there aren't any secrets etc. I don't know what you mean by being "over involved" TBH- my friend phoned me last week and brought up this dilemma - that's what friends do.

MIL is def .not "trouble" - her only crime has been to have treated the DH as if the sun shone out of him, which is not entirely unusual when he is an only child who arrived late in her life. They live a long way away from her and never see her - the MIL- except on the odd occasion. She hasn't caused trouble- her only sin was not to bring him up as my friend thinks she should have.

OP posts:
Acinonyx · 01/12/2007 23:48

Well if the situation is just as you describe I would also feel unable not to give my opinion - and then we'd take it from there. But it does seem odd that this is the only hint of such a callous streak.

Pages · 02/12/2007 08:48

I suppose what I meant by being
"overinvolved" is precisely what you described, or as Daisymoo said, a very intense relationship where you seem very absorbed in her issues and life (and her in yours it seems).

I suppose if she were torturing small animals or beating her children I might have a fundamental problem in maintaining the friendship, but while I might not (like you) quite be able to understand her feelings on this one, I think I would (in the absence of any other such apparently unkind behaviour) give her the benefit of the doubt and support her, my friend of 30 years, rather than someone I don't know.

Pages · 02/12/2007 08:49

Someone you don't know being the MIL. Do you know why she has no friends or anyone else in her life other than her son, btw?

ElasticAnimal · 02/12/2007 09:00

i think you should side withher, you have both known each other longer than she has known her dh and mil, prsumabley. if she knows your opinion on it, just tell you, you know what i think but its up to you.
it is only 1 day afterall. on both sides.

Anna8888 · 02/12/2007 09:25

hls - I wouldn't make or break with a really good friend on the basis of her relationship with her MIL (notoriously tricky, and, from what it sounds, she has a MIL from hell). Really, it's none of your business

AttilaTheMeerkat · 02/12/2007 10:04

I think your initial answer to your friend was somewhat harsh. Those sentiments are often expressed by people who have no knowledge thankfully of difficult relations.

One person you have seemingly forgotton about in all this is her husband; he may well not like her very much either. His Mother may well have smothered him as a child. This could also be a joint decision on their part to do something different.

You may think you know all the ins and outs of her relationship but you don't. I think it is presumptious to think otherwise. Less judging and more understanding is what is needed here.

Don't fall out completely over this issue; its not worth it. You will have to agree to differ on this one becuase neither of your positions will change.

Original poster
hls · 02/12/2007 14:16

Thanks for all your replies.

I think it's a shame that so many of you replying do not seem to have the kind of friendships that I have with this friend, or even understand what it's like.

I DO know everything about the relationships- my friend is extremely articualte and intelligent and we have talked for literally hours about the family dynamics and how she feels/he feels etc. and I can't quite get my head round why some of you insist on saying that I don't, and also that I shouldn't! (in the case of being over-involved).

What started as a simple question from me- which was "has a friend ever behaved in such a way as to make you wonder what they are really like" has taken all sorts of turns, with a lot of you making remarks which are simply untrue, and actually turning on me, saying that I am too involved (with a friend in her 50s who i have known for 30 years) and so on.

OP posts:
Acinonyx · 02/12/2007 14:24

I was surprised too by many of these responses. If a close friend does something we think is wrong are we not supposed to say anything about and just put it out of our minds? That's not a real friendship to my mind.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 02/12/2007 15:00

My dearest friend and I have been through a heck of a lot together this past 30 odd years. I still don't know all the ins and out re her own family dynamics and certainly would not presume to.

It is your right to have an opinion and voice it to your friend but your initial response to her cames across as both unhelpful and judgemental (calling her selfish for not having MIL over). Do you not think you came across as a bit harsh?. Your friend wanted your support and understanding re her MIL. If your friend feels strongly about this particular issue then you need to respect that along with your own self doing some more thinking about your own reasons behind your initial response. It has touched a nerve.

With regards to the comment made by Acinonyx
we can all disagree with actions of friends but after all they make their own choice and have their own reasons for acting as they do. Sometimes people are not willing, able or ready to take on helpful advice or constructive criticism. They have to work it out for their own selves.

I hope your friend and yourself manage to get things back on track. Thirty years is a long time.

Pages · 02/12/2007 15:22

In asking the question you did, the implication was that you don't know her as well as you thought.

I didn't say I didn't have close friends who I talk to for hours at a time. But there is a difference between a deep, loving and enduring friendship and a co-dependent one, which is what your relationship sounded a little like to me. I may be wrong. I don't know you. Of course you know your friend best, so I am sure you are right to feel as you do.

However, I think those of us who were trying to help were concerned that you might be about to risk the ending of your friendship over an issue which is still, IMO, nothing to do with you.

Pages · 02/12/2007 15:28

And no, Acinonyx, I wouldn't necessarily just keep my mouth shut. But the OP has expressed her view, I would then leave it at that. Surely there must be other things they can talk about?

yurt1 · 02/12/2007 15:33

However much we talk to friends we interpret what they say by our own experiences. If you've always had a very good relationship with your MIL you might find her decision dreadful and very difficult to understand, but it does sound as if there has been many years of problems. Presumably the dh gets a say in who comes for xmas as well so there must be some sort of joint decision in this.

Flowertots · 02/12/2007 21:47

hls, is your friend a bit of a martyr?

My MIL would always piss and moan EVERY year that she would have to play host at Xmas for her OWN mother, and why don't the others do it. She knew full well that she'd do it anyway, but just wanted everyone to know it. She was just SUCH a drama queen over everything and would always end up doing Xmas anyway. I never understood what all the fuss was about. The funniest thing was, 1 year I offered to do it and she woke up extra early and started the dinner before I got up....weird!