If your partner told you…

[Oldtiredfedup]

…that it’s fine for you to stop doing everything that you do because it would make no different to his life at all (not a joy of difference), how would you feel?

I stay at home, I do majority of everything: school runs (very long commute - it takes up 3 hours of time total in a day) laundry, holiday organisation, errand running, cleaning, pet care (which also involves a commute - horses), cooking, tidying, meal planning, list making, activities planning, child care etc etc etc - he doesn’t his bit when he’s home,absoloutly, but he’s awful at not picking his stuff up. Really awful. For example, he will take something out of a cupboard, used it (whilst he’s still standing in the same place) and then just put it down and walk away. He will take his clothes off and just leave them wherever he got undressed, he will live coupes and plates all over the house, he will use something up and then just leave the empty bottle/packet there. He says it’s because he works long hours and hasn’t got enough time. I disagree - and this led to a very long argument last night where he told me there are bigger things to worry about than him being a big messy, that I should just leave his mess (that means I can’t clean) etc etc…he threw insults at me, kept saying that I don’t pick up my stuff immediately either - which is true, but ita ME that picks up my stuff, AS WELL as his (clothes six feet away from thd laundry, shoes left in the middle of the floor, empty containers, receipts from his pockets, pens, pencils, work paperwork, tools, crockery, cups etc etc….

All I’m asking is for him to just put things where they belong -dirty dishes in the kitchen, tools back in his shed, empty containers in the bin, paperwork in his bag, shoes under the stairs, coats on the peg etc etc etc…and instead I get told that I’m just as bad, that the house has been a mess for a year anyway (it hasn’t) he downgraded it to ‘cluttered’ (well maybe if he put his own shit away it wouldn’t) and that he pulls his weight and works hard and he’s a mug.

I’ve told him to stuff it - I’m downing tools because what I do isn’t appreciated (a few months back he said that hour for hour he does more around the house than I do on top of the long hours he works - it’s isn’t true) and in response he’s said that me downing tools will not make one joy of difference to his life because what I do only takes an hour a day anyway.

How would you feel? I feel utterly unappreciated. And very upset. I’m apparently causing ‘insanity’ for finding it upsetting.

Am I just too sensitive?

No DSS policies are actually illegal and should be reported - it's formally recognised as discrimination. You may have to pass an affordability check though so I'd focus on working as previous person has suggested - pick up cleaning and ironing work - to save for a deposit etc.

Would you be better looking at moving nearer the school if that's an unmovable obstacle?

I know independence feels like an impossible task right now but it really isn't - I was single parent with two small children and had no family support whatsoever and a horrific ex - very little support network as most of my friends lived elsewhere. I worked evening shifts 6-12 and weekends paid local teenager to watch children when they weren't with their (arsehole) dad. Eventually I met someone else and we moved, but I got through that really challenging time where it felt like everything was against me. Ten years later and I can categorically say it was the best decision I ever made to get away from him. I eventually started my own business, which I'd never have done before as I was so exhausted from dealing with his draining ways.

I’m afraid they are not illegal - yes, a judge found that for one particular case that it was discriminatory in the basis of sex - that’s just one judgment, which is great as it has set a orescedeng and paced the way but there is no actual specific law making ‘no DSS’ illegal and the justice route to challenge anyone saying so is long, convoluted, and expensive.

@Oldtiredfedup

I’m afraid they are not illegal - yes, a judge found that for one particular case that it was discriminatory in the basis of sex - that’s just one judgment, which is great as it has set a orescedeng and paced the way but there is no actual specific law making ‘no DSS’ illegal and the justice route to challenge anyone saying so is long, convoluted, and expensive.

I got the info from here landlordlawblog.co.uk/2020/09/14/dss-now-illegal/

Hold on to your DD getting older and her opinion of where she wants to live and which school she wants to attend mattering more.

Remember your ex cannot dictate which secondary school she attends. If you can't agree then you can take it to court.

Once her secondary school is decided upon at least you have an idea of where would be a more suitable location to live.

I have a DH a bit like this. If I ask him to tidy or clean up after himself I’m a nag.
You either suck it up and clear it up, or split up, as I doubt he’ll change.

I’m sorry you feel unappreciated- your partner’s attitude is unhelpful to say the least, a d yes, it is disrespectful of him not to pick up after himself.

But it sounds like he’s carrying the full financial load and any childcare element is for your DD with a different father - you don’t mention shared DC. So a lot of your list of tasks are to do with your DD, not the shared elements of home keeping that benefit him, IYSWIM. It’s probable he has some stored up resentment that perhaps he’s expressing in a very unhelpful way. Did he live alone before and you’ve moved into his house?

If someone feels attacked, they attack back. Yes, he’s a bit of a filthy shit and he’s making work for you. But from his POV he feels attacked and unappreciated, I presume.

Can you reframe? Have a designated place you put all his stuff if he leaves it around - a box that can be out of sight. Make sure DD is picking up after herself - get her a box too. Make your own mantra ‘Don’t put it down, put it away’ and be absolutely religious in sticking to it so you don’t get the accusations that ‘you do it too’.

Treat him like a small child or dog - positive reinforcement. Say thank you A LOT. Thank you for clearing your cups, thank you for unloading the dishwasher.

Yes it sound positively Stepford and no, you shouldn’t have to put up with it. But as you do have to put up with it - you say your position is not tenable any other way - then you need to reset the atmosphere so you all pull together.

Meanwhile make plans to earn and/or study to improve your prospects. If your DD is 8, then applying for secondary school is not too many years away. At that point you’re not tied to the school commute, or childcare. Work towards that.

The problem is OP that your DP won't change. No matter what you do. So you have to make the change. Either put up with doing it all, leave it and live in a pigstye or leave him for good.

I was married to a man like this. Past tense.

He says that I create the problems in the first place becsuse I get upset snd start shouting when he starts with his attitude if I try to address something: eye rolling, bamboozling, flat out denial, avoidance tactics….anything to muddy the waters if I try to approach him over something. and I’m getting to the point where I’m starting to lose my temper quite quite quickly - the first dirty look, first eye roll, first ‘well you do x y z’ and more recently ‘well you stopped doing stuff for three months…how’s THAT FAIR????’ - he didn’t d scaly step into the gap created by my downing tools.

Few months back I sprained my ankle quite badly - so I asked him to please just get some ready meals in for me. Instead he went out and bought ingredients for meals and expected me to be able to cook them. I lived on things like Mayo sandwiches for several days. I tried to talk to him about it -his attitude w’s that I was being dramatic and if I could make a Mayo sandwich I could cook a meal - he was derisive, cold, shaming, dismissive. I’m afraid I threw my Mayo sandwich at him. He now tells me that’s a reason for the way he treats me.

@RandomMess - in theory you are right, I could take daughters dad to court - however I have had an incredibly bad experience in our local courts, even my barrister was quite aghast at how I was treated, I have no money for representation now, and it’s so hard to explain but he is VERY good at convincing people I’m just DIFGICULT and obstructive. Ivd tried talking with him about her high school and I got a very snotty letter that it was ‘very worrying’ that I wanted to discuss high school (so I have some idea of where to move to as we’ve been trying to move for nearly a year) and that if I continue he will have no options but to consider asking the court to reduce my time with her, as I’m clearly bring manipulative. And yes, you would think a judge would see through such tactics dnd see how unreasonable it was but no, that’s not been my experience (I ended up with a supervised contact only order FOREVER 3 years ago - again, I ended up with a formal apology and compensation from the LA who helped him in his abusive smear campaign -but I’m afraid I have zero faith left in our family court here)

@NoSquirrels - he isn’t resentful of childcare etc - he knew that we were a package.

I mean move once her Hugh school is allocated. Think I would wait until she started tbh.

[quote Oldtiredfedup]@NoSquirrels - he isn’t resentful of childcare etc - he knew that we were a package.[/quote]
Just because someone agrees in principle, doesn’t mean in practise they’re but experienci g (probably unjustified) resentment.

Did you move into his house? How long ago? How long have you both been together?

What attracted you to him initially, and what’s changed in your relationship that the communication seems to have broken down?

I think yes his attitude to housekeeping/picking up after himself is appalling. But communication is a two-way street and if you admit yourself you can’t help losing your temper and he’s eye-rolling you have serious communication issues, fundamentally.

Can you afford couple’s counselling? Do you want to work on it? Or do you want to leave (when you are able to)?

No, I end up losing my temper because when I try talking with him he starts with all the typical stonewalling tactics I’m used to: eye rolling, sighing, telling me he’s got bigger fish to fry (yes, he ACTUALLY says that’, telling my that my request I stupid and doesn’t make sense, telling me I’m imagining it, telling me I’m wrong to want xyz. When he makes a request of me, even if I don’t really understand his preference or think it’s silly, I just say ‘ok’ and that’s that. I have to justify every single thing every single time.

Sorry, I don’t know what I want any more.

I believed he was more evolved than the typical males Ivd come across (treating women as nags etc) I guess I was wrong.

You're in an incredibly difficult position. It sounds like you've downgraded from a class A abuser to a class C abuser. He sounds horrible. I wouldn't waste any money on couples counselling with him. You sound really defeated at the moment.

In your shoes I would make a short term plan to try and get myself into a stronger position. You could stop wasting your time and energy arguing with him - he's not worth it. Step back from him, for your own sake. Focus on your daughter and yourself and minimal engagement with him. Get planning. Start an ironing business, as quietly as possible and start a leaving fund - tell no one. Get your ducks in a row with the intention of leaving when it's more realistic. This could allow you to move nearer to your daughter's secondary school when it's time. Work on making things better for yourself and don't waste your time and energy on your partner.

He also makes me explain the same thing over and over abd over agsin…he’ll say ok he gets I and then several minutes later will tell me he doesn’t…I’ve had to explain 25 times minimum ehy im upset since last night. and then he’ll ask me again some version if ‘why are you upset?’ He’s told me in recent weeks that I am insane and I’m mentally unwell and then either denies he’s said it or meant something else or said it under his breath so if doesn’t count but woe betide if I say ‘you are behaving like a dick’ ‘your behaviour is reminding me of past abuse’

Oh, and he’s a mental health professional…so when he says I’m unwell it really makes me afraid snd anxious.

I am a messy person so I would find it difficult but I would seriously stop trying to talk things through because of the stonewalling.

Pick up after yourself and insist DD does her stuff too so it's clear whose mess it is.

The horses sound very time consuming and something you personally can't afford so knock it on the head so you have time to look for work or just make your less life stressful.

Agree long term goals get your ducks in a row.

Absolutely no washing laundry unless he puts it in the basket. Leave his stuff in piles in each room etc

@Oldtiredfedup

Oh, and he’s a mental health professional…so when he says I’m unwell it really makes me afraid snd anxious.

Oh god! It’s astounding to me how many abusive men end up in these roles. People are trusting him to care for their mental health while at home he’s gaslighting and abusing his wife. Just appalling

No advice other than to please reread and consider the previous posts. You’re not stuck, but I know it feels like it when you look at the big picture. Just take it one step at a time. Getting some ironing in to help earn some money first of all. You won’t be earning enough to pay any tax but do keep note of what you get from ironing and any expenditure (new iron, board etc), register with HMRC as self employed and then in April you can work out your profit. Once you separate from this turd you’ll have some income and also be able to show records for the purpose of getting some tax credits/universal credit etc. as a single mum. Your life will be so much easier without having to pick up after a man child. But for now, just concentrate on moving forward step by step for yourself, and try to tune him out. His opinion of your housework or contribution is irrelevant at this point as he’s shown that he overestimates what he does and underestimates what you do.

I agree with PP who said to get a job. When the financial income is split more evenly, the domestic work can then be split more evenly too. This will have the added bonus of helping dd's separation anxiety, giving you more money - maybe you can learn to drive and gain independence. I think it's the answer here.

I think you need a job, any job and to squirrel some away. I work long hours and still clean up after myself as does every adult so his excuse does not cut it.

I really dont like the sound of this.

All I’m asking is for him to just put things where they belong -dirty dishes in the kitchen, tools back in his shed, empty containers in the bin, paperwork in his bag, shoes under the stairs, coats on the peg etc etc etc…

Apart from the dishes, could you just chuck everything that's his which isn't in the right place in HIS shed? Coat, shoes, papers, empty containers. Just smile sweetly and say you didn't know where he wanted them so the shed seemed the best place.

A friend taught me this if the conversations don't work - a warning that you will stop
Doing his washing. So it therefore directly impacts himAnd not you having to live with a messy house by "downing tools".

I've picked up my husbands pants from 3 different locations where he dropped them and collected his drink glasses from 3 locations around the house, it's just not on and it sets a bad example for the children.

The warning normally works as I did the clothes washing before and it's a real problem for them.

@Christoncrutches - I didn’t release there had been even more cases - his is good news. It seems the landscape really has changed in recent years - next step should be that it shouldn’t be possible for landlords and rental agencies to know where the money is coming from (because it’s very easy to say ‘no’ and find other reasons to mask thd real reason for turning a HB claimant down.

You've all been really helpful.

I’m going to start an ironing business (if not thought of it - and I find it satisfying which id a bonus)

@MrsRobbieHart - may I DM you? To ask you some questions?

Hi op.

I would give the horse loan back asap. I know how tying they are.

Look for work during school hours - maybe TA or something at your daughter's school? Look at doing some training/a course? What kind of thing do you like doing?

Stop picking up after him and treat him like a child. Put his stuff on his side of the room and he can deal with it. Only wash his clothes if he has put them in the basket and so on.

My ex wasn't as bad but had similar things. So glad I no longer have to put up with his shit.