How do you create a good marriage?

[Winenota]

Just that really. With all the stress of crap job, elderly relatives, illness, teens, money..how do you create and maintain a good partnership that may even nurture you? Is it even possible?

In our case, verbally expressing appreciation of something the other's done. I guess it's showing that you acknowledge the effort.
Trying to say "I love you" pretty often. Sounds trite but I guess it's a reminder that you are each other's person.
Sex. Even if not frequent, but I think it's important to really try not to lose that because you're so tired and under pressure. You need to have that feeling of closeness. It doesn't have to be a chandelier swinging marathon.
Being straight up "I'm really cranky, it's all been too much today". Get it out there and it stops a row.
Don't be resentful when your partner says the same thing.
Both do your share, even if that comes in different forms. You can't feel nurtured if you're exhausted and bitter that you're carrying all the load. This is where expressing appreciation to each other comes in.
And don't underestimate a quick hug, or sticking an unexpected cuppa/glass of wine in your partner's hand. Little gestures are sometimes all you have the time or energy for, but they count for a lot IME. Makes you feel that you're not going unnoticed.
Anyway, those are my thoughts after many years of marriage and some truly terrible, life changing tragedies along the way. We're definitely 100 times stronger now than 25 years ago.

@Weatherwax13 this is heartwarming to read. I went through an unimaginable loss and my marriage didn’t survive it. Many of the things you mentioned were lacking to get us through.

Make time for some fun! It doesn't have to be big fun, just a bit of fun. Me and my DH have a special Friday thing, where we get a bit tipsy and listen to music and sometimes dance round the kitchen together. It's great!

We also do things together that others might not consider to be fun. We do puzzles, we garden together, we watch certain TV series together. (Not all of the time, some weekends we don't get the chance to do any of those things and that's ok too!)

We also have separate interests, and facilitate the other doing it. So I go to a group thing once a week. DH makes sure he is home in plenty of time and the kids are fed so I don't feel guilty or worried about it. And I do the same for him.

Hope you can figure something out.

For me:
Never undermining each other - being a united front.
Never ridiculing your partner or repeatedly picking holes.
Constructive criticism only.
Intimacy - not just regular sex, although that’s important, and it’s up to you to define “regular” - but a hug, a hand squeeze, a kiss, etc.
Try to go to bed at the same time a couple of nights a week at least - a lot can be sorted out in that 15 mins before you go to sleep.
Having each other’s back, but more importantly, making that clear and not just assuming.
Picking your battles - would you really rather have a 30 min fight about him leaving the milk out every morning or would it be easier just to put it away and accept that as one of his nuances?
Chores rota - and the ability to take up the slack when one of you is under pressure.

@Weatherwax13

In our case, verbally expressing appreciation of something the other's done. I guess it's showing that you acknowledge the effort. Trying to say "I love you" pretty often. Sounds trite but I guess it's a reminder that you are each other's person. Sex. Even if not frequent, but I think it's important to really try not to lose that because you're so tired and under pressure. You need to have that feeling of closeness. It doesn't have to be a chandelier swinging marathon. Being straight up "I'm really cranky, it's all been too much today". Get it out there and it stops a row. Don't be resentful when your partner says the same thing. Both do your share, even if that comes in different forms. You can't feel nurtured if you're exhausted and bitter that you're carrying all the load. This is where expressing appreciation to each other comes in. And don't underestimate a quick hug, or sticking an unexpected cuppa/glass of wine in your partner's hand. Little gestures are sometimes all you have the time or energy for, but they count for a lot IME. Makes you feel that you're not going unnoticed. Anyway, those are my thoughts after many years of marriage and some truly terrible, life changing tragedies along the way. We're definitely 100 times stronger now than 25 years ago.

This is really great advice.

The bit about being honest about how you're feeling really resonated with me (and that means honest with yourself as well). That is one really key thing that was missing in my first marriage that is present in my second and I'm a thousand times happier for it.

@Weatherwax13 is right we've been going through some difficult times and that is pretty spot on.

I'll reiterate something: be honest and talk. A problem I've seen with us is that when DH is tired he can't really understand any subtlety AT ALL. If there is something bothering you, you have to spell it out in all the words and in all different ways. Men....

@Winenota

Just that really. With all the stress of crap job, elderly relatives, illness, teens, money..how do you create and maintain a good partnership that may even nurture you? Is it even possible?

Yes, it's definitely possible to have a good, nurturing marriage even though things are tough. But, essentially, we can't draw out energy out of thin air so if you feel like you're overwhelmed you've got to prioritise what's important to you and step back from the things that aren't a priority.

I also think it's important to make an effort with both yourself and your spouse. If you're not getting enough sleep, you have to make an effort to get enough sleep. If you don't feel confident in your appearance, you have to make an effort to change that. And in order to have a good relationship it's crucial to spend quality time with your spouse. So that requires some effort as well.

My point is basically that with doing some prioritising and making some effort it's possible to have a really good marriage.

Marry someone relatively calm and easy going and can accept a bit of criticism without going into a huff ! If you marry someone who frequently is argumentative, moody and fickle— chances are that this won’t change

only been together 4 years so maybe not so many years of wisdom but in that time we've been through 3 bereavements, 3 surgeries, 2 job losses, wedding planning (following parental loss on my side), major injury, infertility and early stages of pregnancy so maybe some licence.

I'd honestly say honesty is the most important. if i am upset or angry i'll calmly tell him that.

If we disagree or are angry we discuss it out - we have strict rules about no silent treatments. We apologise if we hurt the other one even if we didn't do it on purpose as it doesn't matter whether you did it on purpose - you still hurt them.

We make each other laugh i think is really important. I love that he's not bothered by my morbid sense of humour he laughs more than anyone i know and its my favourite sound in the world.

Enjoy spending time together and have some similar interests but have your own lives away from each other with your own interests.

Getting along with each others family and having similar views on what the important things to spend money on are also two really important things in a relationship as money and family are usually the two biggest issues in a relationship.

@Weatherwax13

In our case, verbally expressing appreciation of something the other's done. I guess it's showing that you acknowledge the effort. Trying to say "I love you" pretty often. Sounds trite but I guess it's a reminder that you are each other's person. Sex. Even if not frequent, but I think it's important to really try not to lose that because you're so tired and under pressure. You need to have that feeling of closeness. It doesn't have to be a chandelier swinging marathon. Being straight up "I'm really cranky, it's all been too much today". Get it out there and it stops a row. Don't be resentful when your partner says the same thing. Both do your share, even if that comes in different forms. You can't feel nurtured if you're exhausted and bitter that you're carrying all the load. This is where expressing appreciation to each other comes in. And don't underestimate a quick hug, or sticking an unexpected cuppa/glass of wine in your partner's hand. Little gestures are sometimes all you have the time or energy for, but they count for a lot IME. Makes you feel that you're not going unnoticed. Anyway, those are my thoughts after many years of marriage and some truly terrible, life changing tragedies along the way. We're definitely 100 times stronger now than 25 years ago.

this is really great advice.

We are married nearly 30 years and have been through deaths/illnesses/really difficult times. Everything weatherwax said was what kept us together and supporting each other and made the hard times bearable and the good times wonderful. The most important thing to us was we always thought well of the other person and presumed we were both trying our best. we resisted the temptation to feel like we were on opposing teams and keeping score (i think this keeping score thing happens when you have small children). And completely agree with the comment on sex. it is the easiest way to stay intimate.

Thanks, some great tips here!
I’ll take them on board. How do people stay together when they change so much? Always seemed a bit daft tbh. Have best mates I don’t see any more!

@Weatherwax13

In our case, verbally expressing appreciation of something the other's done. I guess it's showing that you acknowledge the effort. Trying to say "I love you" pretty often. Sounds trite but I guess it's a reminder that you are each other's person. Sex. Even if not frequent, but I think it's important to really try not to lose that because you're so tired and under pressure. You need to have that feeling of closeness. It doesn't have to be a chandelier swinging marathon. Being straight up "I'm really cranky, it's all been too much today". Get it out there and it stops a row. Don't be resentful when your partner says the same thing. Both do your share, even if that comes in different forms. You can't feel nurtured if you're exhausted and bitter that you're carrying all the load. This is where expressing appreciation to each other comes in. And don't underestimate a quick hug, or sticking an unexpected cuppa/glass of wine in your partner's hand. Little gestures are sometimes all you have the time or energy for, but they count for a lot IME. Makes you feel that you're not going unnoticed. Anyway, those are my thoughts after many years of marriage and some truly terrible, life changing tragedies along the way. We're definitely 100 times stronger now than 25 years ago.

Completely agree with all of this. We've been together 30 years and if I had to pick out one factor which has kept us on track it would be continually reminding each other that we love them and demonstrating love through regular physical contact and intimacy. Years ago when the DC were young we made a deal that we should try not to go more than a week without sex - it was just a casual conversation at the time but looking back now it was probably one of the best decisions we ever made. Keep the sexual spark alive and everything else somehow follows.

Don't go to sleep angry

I think I've been married long enough to give advice now

Best thing you can do is acknowledge and understand that you do NOT have to be ok. Real life is gritty, it's horrendous at times. Absolute shit happens. Some lesser shit happens .. even a sleepless night and people beeing ratty and tired is enough for a bit of a snipe at each other you know.

But I think the best thing you can do is understand between you that these things are ok. You're both human beings, you're not looking for a picture perfect Instagram relationship with no issues whatsoever because that's bullshit. They don't exist.

Accepting that it's ok to be moody / tired / upset and things won't always be perfect I think is the best thing you can do.

If you expect perfection, you're setting yourself up for disaster immediately.

I'll reiterate something: be honest and talk. A problem I've seen with us is that when DH is tired he can't really understand any subtlety AT ALL. If there is something bothering you, you have to spell it out in all the words and in all different ways. Men....

I agree with this, and TBH I really wish my ex would have come to the point about issues more often and more quickly rather than beating around the bush with subtle remarks that went over my thick man head..

@JustAnother0ldMan sometimes that's the case. I agreed with DH that we need to talk to each other and be very honest and plain. From both sides.

We tend to assume that other people just "know" things and we're the only ones who struggle.... other people don't know any better than us (unless we're talking about professionals in their very particular area of expertise)

I think @Weatherwax13 list is pretty spot on. But I'd condense it to "be kind to one another". Almost everything on that list involves things that ultimately come down to being kind and considerate.

I'd say the toughest time in our marriage was when we lost sight of this. DH had taken on a new job and thought that meant he could just let everything else go while he focused on that. And I was so resentful and bitter that I didn't take into consideration how difficult and stressful he was finding it. A friend who went through a bereavement recently told me that her husband's behaviour, and kindness and love, made their relationship stronger than ever. Makes total sense to me.

@Winenota

Thanks, some great tips here! I’ll take them on board. How do people stay together when they change so much? Always seemed a bit daft tbh. Have best mates I don’t see any more!

I would say by both of you making a conscious choice to... erm... change in the same direction, if that makes sense? Making decisions about where your life goes with the focus being on the relationship and not focused solely on yourself. For example, a new job that would take you across the country. If you're serious about being together you'd discuss it before even applying (and perhaps decide not to), but if your main focus is yourself and your life with the relationship coming second, then you might not mention it until after you've got the job and are deciding whether to accept or not. It's hard to explain. It's not about doing what the other person wants all the time or not changing unless they're happy with the changes. Your feelings count too in these matters. It's to acknowledge that the opportunity or desire to change comes secondary to your wish to remain in the marriage. If you've fundamentally changed as a person and drifted apart because one of you hasn't changed much, or you've both changed loads but not together in the same direction, then your priorities change and your desire to live differently or take up new opportunities becomes more important to you than remaining married to this person and that's when the new opportunity becomes a deal breaker, with the other person either accepting it without resentment or you break up (if not straight away then after the resentment reached boiling point. Accepting things with resentment doesn't work IMO).

@Winenota

Thanks, some great tips here! I’ll take them on board. How do people stay together when they change so much? Always seemed a bit daft tbh. Have best mates I don’t see any more!

You don't get divorced is the honest answer.

My own parents had a very rocky patch in their marriage and I always presumed they would split. But they came through and are very much still committed to each other 25 years later. Knowing they could work through things has helped me in difficult times in my marriage.

Be kind to each other always. Also remember that it's only the 2 of you who love your kids more than anyone else in the world.

Listening - so important!
Honesty.
Kindness.
Respect.
Affection.
Working together.
Making an effort.

I think there are many different aspects and they can vary, depending of the couple involved.

What I'd say is it doesn't make sense to me to speak to someone you (presumably) love in a way you wouldn't dream of addressing a stranger on the street.

We're kind, thank each other, are loyal and truly see ourselves as a team.

Honesty
Transparency
Equality
Don't judge
Trust

The first response pretty much cracked it. Our marriage I fairly new (10 years) but in terms of awful life stuff being thrown at us we have had it all. We have a wonderful marriage. I would say it is the best thing in my life.

We say three things often, I love you, well done and thank you. And I mean daily, if not hourly sometimes. Obviously for some couples saying it might be too much but you should try to feel it and seek it out.

Where I differ from most of the rest of mumsnet is I don't consider regular sex to be crucial in all successful marriages, I do consider regular intimacy to be crucial. We only have sex about 5 times a year but we are intimate every day. Hugs, kisses, massages, dancing, holding hands, stroking neck...you get the pictue.

What a lot of people forget though is that both parties have to be on the same page about the kind of marriage they want. It can't be one sided.

My philosophy is that a relationship has to double the fun and halve the shit in my life.

Doubling the fun and halving the shit sounds like a plan!
I’m with you on the sex so muddled. Not sure how to cuddle hold hands etc. I’m very tactile, he’s not, so I feel a bit uncomfortable holding hands etc. It’s odd he hugs with his head turned away, even when he instigates it. Wierd.
I’ve been upping the listening and enthusing and complimenting. Of course mnmonster, I’ve daydreamed about divorce, but I agree with you, I think it will cause more bigger problems. And mochridhe, that’s stuck a chord! So true.
Thank you all. It makes sense to treat each other as a friend and with love and respect.
So am going to use all of very good advice.