A very difficult time, advice please

[BelleandSeb]

Hi there this is my first ever thread.

My DH and I have two kids DD aged 6 and DS aged 3. We moved back in England where I'm from for six months as our life abroad went tits up ( We lost our jobs and home as a result of the pandemic, it has been a nightmare) My DH couldn't settle in England, was pining for his home country as was my DD aged 6. So he went back to live with my MIL abroad as he had an offer of a few months work and my DD cried and cried to go back as well. Big mistake that I let her go with him. I was happy back at home. I didn't want to leave after the horrendous time we'd had and the lack of faith in the place and the lack of support we received abroad. Anyhow I got called back for a few months work and my DS and I moved a month after so that we could be together although I didn't want to, purely for the kids . All of us with the MIL who is an absolute nightmare. She criticises everything I do and living with her is the hardest thing I've ever had to do. I'm doing this for my family and I'm being so respectful with my MIL making sure she has her space, taking the kids out, cleaning up, buying food just as any good house guest does. I have the overwhelming feeling that she only wants her son and my 2 kids there. I'm ignored, insulted and criticised. My son is ASD and had a really bad day yesterday and she had the nerve to say that when I'm with him I mess him up and that he's better when I'm not around. This hurt so much and my MIL thinks my daughter is hers. She took her to the hairdresser without asking (I saw a similar post the other day) and she keeps my daughters clothes in her room as apparently I don't wash or iron properly. I'm going out of my mind and the relationship with my DH is awful as he never sticks up for me. He's unemployed again and I'm going to work away for a month to bring some money in and MIL is delighted as she can control my kids without me there as she thinks things are worse when I'm around. So I'm starting work tomorrow and I really don't want to be away from my kids but I feel so unwelcome and I just want to move to my home country with my kids but I would need to go legal to do that. What a mess. I feel my mental health is worsening and that Im trapped with no money to get my kids out of this situation. Plus my DH is not applying for jobs and seems to be always unemployed. My siblings saw all this coming before I did and warned me.The worst thing is I've been told by my MIL that there's no space for me and that it would be a good idea if I rented a room nearby. I feel gutted and she's always hinting that it's better if I worked away and came for visits only. Meanwhile her son my DH is enjoying our kids, no rent or bills to pay and has them in a summer camp in the mornings. Yes he appears pissed off about the things MIL says but would never speak up as he's too afraid of her and needs her approval constantly which he never gets.

I'm so sorry for such a long post but I'm being pushed out of my family and it really hurts and any advice would be welcome.

Thank you so much in advance xo

If I were you I would ask your family to book three flights ASAP for you and the children to return home, and just go. You can deal with the legal and longer term practical aspects later.

Tell your family in the UK how bad things really are. Ask for help.

You need to get yourself AND your children back here. Ask your family for help. Leave with nothing but your passports if necessary.

Seek legal advice ASAP. You were clearly in the uk for quite awhile and haven’t been in Spain for long. If you can come back book flights ask for you wages at the end of the week and all come back to the uk.
The longer you leave it the worse it will get
In the uk you will be able to claim benefits and jobs and housing are a plenty in many areas at this time of year.

Get legal advice ASAP. I have been /am in your situation in a different S European country. The attitudes you describe from the mil are chillingly familiar. They regard your kids as their personal property and they will not give up.

Not sure about the length of time you've been in Spain. The court will go on last place of residence and I think the minimum is 6 months. Which means if you go back to the UK he can file Hague Convention proceedings to force them back. Kids' wishes will get taken into account if they're older than 8-.10.

Your best bet is to strengthen your own position in Spain, assume you will be there for the foreseeable, and explore all employment options. Get them away from the mil but maintain their friendships, school etc.

Try GlobalArrk, facebook. They might be able to help. Look up specialist lawyers on Reunite.

sorry OP I just reread your original post.

Is there any chance of your H getting a decent job in the UK or agreeing for you all to move back again?
Any further move HAS to be done with his consent, but even if he gives consent and himself stays in Spain, he has, I think, up to 1 year from your arrival in the UK within which to lodge proceedings to force them back, with or without you. Zero interest will be given by the court to the mother's situation. It sounds impossible but that's the reality.

To pp suggesting just get on a plane, that is very dangerous advice. Legally, OP could be charged with abducting her own children. It happens more often than you would believe.

Stay strong OP. You are doing your absolute best for your kids.

I know it's been said but just be careful about leaving with the DC without their dads permission. I absolutely would want to in your shoes but I've read on here that it can go against you in court if the country you're leaving is considered their permanent residence. Seek legal advice before you make any decisions.

That sounds like such a horrendous position to be in OP and your husband definitely doesn't have your best interests at heart. I hope you find a way out soon

I know of someone who was in a similar situation. She secretly planned her escape taking her young son with her back to the UK. Her ex didn't have the balls or the money to drag her through the courts. They are now happily settled here. As England is no longer in the EU I dont know if this might be worth looking into. Maybe it won't be so easy for him to get them back?

@Zerrin13, unfortunately the EU has nothing to do with it. Hague is global.

Yep as stated the Hague convention is global. Not all countries are signed to it but most are, including Spain. And as the 'left behind parent' you always get legal aid. Your friends ex obviously just couldn't be arsed. Not something you can guarantee

i dont think he will be bothered to take the kids back. he doesnt even look for a job.

Sorry for the lack of contact everyone I'm working long days on a residential course and I'm just getting back to you all. Some excellent advice and thank you all so much. I will definitely let you know what I decide x

Definitely seek legal advice.

Also, spain isn't like the UK and unemployment benefits is time limited and dependent on how long you have worked. How are your husband and his mother thinking of supporting themselves and the kids?

You need to be a bit clever about this op and think of how you can persuade them to come to the UK. Or look at getting work in spain so you can afford to live there with the kids. Are you planning on staying with your DH?

I don't understand why you let your DD go back to Spain.

What an awful situation. I agree that you need legal advice.

Your husband seems in thrall to his mother and if they are saying there is no space for you after your course, he is in fact separating from you surely, and because they have the children and are making arguments that the children are happier with them (or in your DS’s case, more settled), then they are setting it up for your husband to be the resident parent and once you get a job, they will be wanting maintenance.
Otherwise, why can you not stay?

What rights of residency do you have in this situation if you are not living with your husband? Does he genuinely think this is okay, or is he genuinely so spineless he is going along with this?

Are you really, truly sure that your family won’t help again?

Otherwise I think you are looking at getting on your own two feet, finding a place to stay, checking your residency rights and a legal fight to have your children with you. That is a dreadful situation. Do you have any friends where you are? Are you making any on your course?

Hello everyone. Sorry this is the first time I´ve actually sat down and had time to go on MN. The intensive residential course is really intensive, it´s a very good distraction at the minute though I´m finding it exhausting on top of all the stuff with my family and MIL. I just thought I´d update you all. MIL has said to my husband that I´m no longer welcome at hers and to find alternative accommodation after the course. And to be honest I cannot live under the same roof as that woman and her emotional abuse. My DH continues to be spineless. I chat to him and the kids on Whatsapp video but I can barely look at him. I don´t trust him and he´s showing no concern about where I stay after the course, He definitely wants our relationship over too, he says for me not to worry as I´ll always be a part of the kids life but how on earth can i be when now i have nowhere to stay and to be honest a months salary which i´ll have at the end of August won´t exactly put a roof over mine and my kids head. Although DH has the idea that he will have the kids ffs. I´m not sure if my course is going to go ahead for the entire month of August due to lack of numbers so I´m homeless and I can´t believe what a mess it all is. I´m seriously thinking of going back to England to a friends house if even for a while to get some advice and think about what i´m going to do cos i have nowhere to stay here. I met some new friends on the course but they have no room to put me up unfortunately.
Although I feel i´m running away from the issue as i would need to be here to at least see the kids but with nowhere to stay and no job it´s complicated. Would you take a break back in England to think and plan if you were me or stay and spain and go to a homeless shelter? I think after asking that question i know the answer. I need home for a while to clear my mind and plan ahead. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me

If I were you I would begin contacting womens aid type organisations in Spain and see what they can offer in terms of accommodation for you and your children. I would be making it very clear that you are not leaving your children with these people. I fear if you leave them there , they will cut you off from them entirely.

hi OP I'm sorry that you're going through this. Don't leave the kids in the house without you. If there's no space for you, there's no space for them either.

I think you need to speak to lawyers or another organisation there, but please don't allow your MIL and your H (because he's complicit, not just weak willed) to throw you out without your children.

If you haven't told your family, I think you should tell them too.

And yes, what a PP said, your daughter is 6, she doesn't get to decide where she lives.

Have you contacted the British embassy yet? Spain isn't in the middle east you will be able to get help and a way forward.

It seems you want posters to tell you its OK to go back to England without your kids. If thats what you want; go! but they are young impressionable children OP you have parental rights, go get your kids and be in the same room as your husband to discuss what is happening.

I'd be wary of coming back to UK and leaving children behind. It would give the impression that you're agreeing to them living with DH permanently. And at you believe he and his DM can give them a good home. And the DC might be told that you've abandoned them.

If at all possible, I'd stay in Spain and try to find a solution. Get legal advice. Secure accommodation and possibly employment. Make it clear that you're building a secure base for your children to return to live with you.

My heart goes out to you OP. Please call the Briitish Consulate, that is why they are there, to help their citizens in a foreign country, they may be able to offer free legal aid. Don’t leave your children and start to keep a journal. Call the Embassy. Xxx

How long have you been back in Spain now OP and how long were you there before you came back to the UK for 6 months?

I know you needed money but I wouldn’t have left the DC with your DH and MIL (from hell) in your situation. They could use this time while you’re away to get further control of your DC and your DD will feel further disconnection from you, especially now your MIL is refusing to let you come back to live with them!

You absolutely cannot leave Spain as they can say you abandoned them.

Can your family come over to help you get the DC back to the UK, obviously having taken urgent legal advice, and assuming they are not classed as habitually resident in Spain now? Is your DD enrolled in a UK school still?

If your family are prepared to help you come back and put you up for a while, you can worry about finances later. The longer the DC remain in Spain, the harder it will be to get them back.

I think you have to tell your mother that your kids go where you go and if that means that all three of you turn up to the local embassy claiming to be honest that's what you will do. Your husband is clearly spineless so you have to step up. Mil clearly thinks she can push you out the picture. You have to stand up to her. Bell would freeze over before I would leave my kids behind. A 6 year old DD does not get to decide and anyone with primary shed children can tell you that they re settle into new schools and locations very easily. You have not said how long you have been back in Spain. I echo others posters in that if you have been on Spain less than 6 months I would just get back to UK. If longer than 6 months then you need to seek legal advise. Again, tell your MIL, if you are homeless then so are your children. No negotiations.

Don't return to the UK and leave the children in Spain, that's handing them over on a plate to your in laws. It might be tempting to return home alone to the UK but realistically what can you sort out from here? You need to be where the DC are regardless. If you are not welcome at your MILs then present you and your DC as homeless to the Spanish version of the local council or whatever authority it is. DO NOT let MIL keep them, they can argue in court that you abandoned the DC. Plus your relationship with your DD will not improve living apart from you, don't let her dictate to you at only 6, that's a recipe for disaster!

Leave your hopeless H and start proceedings for a life just you and the DC, in Spain for now until you know where you stand legally. Which country were your DC born?

In the kindest possible way, you need to man up, make some decisions and get moving. We all know they want you to leave your kids. No point going on about that.
Are you staying in spain with them or going to the UK? Decide and start taking action

There's a huge expat community in Spain, do you have a local English speaking group you can contact to help you with local (or not so local!) accommodation?

Also, look at house sitting or volunteering - lots of places accept children. If you got married in Spain talk to a solicitor about divorce and maintenance. As PP have said, it's not the Middle East and you have legal rights as a resident (I assume you are?).