Do narcissists manipulate us better in any way by letting us know their opinion of themselves?

[me4real]

I don't mean trying to convince us how rich, clever etc they are.

But things like announcing they're the funniest person in the room.

Does it help them manipulate others in any way to pronounce overtly that they think they're awesome? I mean not just an inner feeling of comfort, but does saying it somehow help them manipulate people?

As I'dve thought it mostly rubs people up the wrong way.

Just wondering really, no current real world situation I'm in.

Why do you want to know? Google has a clear description of Narcissist traits if your interested?

I know that. I just haven't seen anything cover what they gain from boasting about themselves subjectively, showing what they maybe think about themselves. I don't mean the claiming they're high status to impress people that all articles say is a hallmark of narcs, but the overtly claiming to others that they're hilarious or whatever in a way that doesn't seem like it would achieve anything with other people. I get that a narc might think that about themselves, but assuming they're not thick, what does it achieve to share that to others when it's not usually considered socially praiseworthy to boast?

I had a narc ex a year and a half ago but I'm not hung up on it in a bad way or anything, I just am interested in how/whether this particular thing works.

I think it's generally more subtle than the way you have described it. With people they don't know very well they will probably talk more about their beliefs and values to paint a picture of them being a certain way - as they don't really know these people it's unlikely to be challenged. With intimate partners and family members it is more likely to be a slow drip feed over time coupled with other abusive behaviours leading to cognitive dissonance e.g. I believe you are a good person because you keep telling me so and I've been conditioned by you to believe it even though your behaviour is to the contrary. Abusers are very manipulative and insidious, they won't be blatant.

I believe you are a good person because you keep telling me so and I've been conditioned by you to believe it even though your behaviour is to the contrary. Abusers are very manipulative and insidious, they won't be blatant.

@Dogfan Mine used to outright say he was hilarious etc. His boasting was blatant. That's what I'm wondering about-what would that achieve for them/him in a world where such boasting tends to be frowned on, in terms of gains from/maniplating other people?

But he did pretend to be a good person, too, and that was difficult to see beyond for quite a while, despite some of his actions.

Its interesting. I had an ex who would comment often that hes a good person. And he would often also say he was perfect. And he genuinely believed he was in fact perfect.

He had cheated on every gf he'd ever had, was an aggressive twat when drunk and didn't do didly for anyone other than himself unless he was getting something out of it. And was a compulsive liar.

But it took me ages to realise what he says and what he did didn't add up.

I now don't believe a word anyone says, I go by their actions. If someone says they want to make me happy. Great! Show me.

@me4real I hate arrogance and people who boast like that, I think they are idiots. The issue is that I watch people around me lapping it all up and thinking these boasters are great guys. I find a lot of people mistake arrogance and boasting as confidence and competence.

I've started to believe I carry a lot of narc traits. I hate that I do. But I do tend to brag a lot and people probably don't give a shit. It's not necessarily that I want them to big me up or feel a different way about me. It's more about me and I try to convince MYSELF that I'm a good person and I have all of these good traits.
It doesn't necessarily mean I need people to agree. It's more a core belief that I have. I don't know I'm just trying to give you another angle

I think when I hear people (dsis) bigging herself up I am less inclined to believe her version of herself. If it was more subtle, from someone else, it might work, for a while on a drip drip effect. I'd like to think I would suss out eventually that something was at least 'off' though

It's more about me and I try to convince MYSELF that I'm a good person and I have all of these good traits.

@MamaJustKilledAMan It's healthy to an extent to tell yourself inwardly that you're doing great etc. But I suppose if someone says how awesome they are to others in a boasting way, then that is a sign of narcissistic traits. But everyone has traits of something. I have marked borderline traits. The nearest I might say is 'I'm really impressed that I managed too fix that curtain rail' or something. What I mean is I'm shit at DIY so it's a miracle if I manage to do anything.

I can imagine it might help people feel better too say that they're awesome out loud, though. My ex claimed he used to have avoidant traits, and he deliberately developed narcissistic traits to get past them (he was a therapist so had studied the different traits etc.)

I'd like to think I would suss out eventually that something was at least 'off' though

@SpongeBobJudgeyPants I suppose if it was from most people I would be thinking 'WTF?' If I see someone being like it again I'd definitely see it as a red flag and avoid them.

It's a victim-filter. Anybody with healthy boundaries will feel their hackles go up at this kind of behaviour. So if you start with a room of 10 people and do this, 8 of them will leave, and voila! You have found 2 people who will put up with your massive ego without feeling uncomfortable. Then you try a little bit of manipulation and another one leaves. You marry the one who is left, and set about destroying them.

It's like sport.

Ugh.

Abusers are very manipulative and insidious, they won't be blatant

They absolutely will be blatant. That's known as 'the mask slipping'. It can happen for days or weeks or months at a time, and it will only happen for the victims eyes. For everybody else, they will maintain their acceptable persona.

@TheFoundations not on day 1 and not when they're trying to get people to like them or believe them. The mask can only slip once you've bought into the image they portray.

[quote Dogfan]@TheFoundations not on day 1 and not when they're trying to get people to like them or believe them. The mask can only slip once you've bought into the image they portray.[/quote]
Quite. If you'd said 'They won't be blatant on day 1' I wouldn't have written my post.

There are some abusers who would absolutely be blatant about their delusions of grandeur.

In my experience, my intuition and gut reaction about my toxic person was spot on - I alluded that I didn't want to give him the wrong idea.
When he heard that, he was adamant that he wasn't "trying to get into my pants" .

He also claimed he wasn't a bastard, when he gave me the silent treatment. He absolutely was a horrible person.

He would often say that others didn't like him because he was more successful or somehow better than them. One hilarious example was that one of the female lesbian managers didn't like him because she was jealous of his success with women.

Told me that he was like me gay, best friend after only a few months of working together. Yes, we got on, but this was a bit much and he wasn't gay. He just wanted me to think he was safe to be with.

One hilarious example was that one of the female lesbian managers didn't like him because she was jealous of his success with women

That is funny. It's so far fetched!

It works on the children of narcissistic parents. The parent will constantly tell them they are the cleverest, richest, most powerful.. especially in comparison to the child. It destroys the children's self esteem and makes them feel powerless to their God-like parent. It also makes the child feel like they would lose a lot by standing up to the parent. Thus makes them very easily manipulated. This is from personal experience...my mother/my partner's father...we recently both realised how much we bond over both having grown up with narcissistic parents. It's easier to spot the behaviour when you're not the victim of it I have to say. One of the first things my father in law said to me when I met him was 'My son is nothing compared to me.' seriously 😶

I think some boasters may be narcissists or manipulators and/or some boasters may be insecure and trying to prove themselves but not disordered in any other way. Whatever the cause it's a very unattractive trait IMO. I think 'diagnosing or thinking' someone a narcissist or a sociopath from this one trait alone is never a good idea - I think they have to have several negative traits to be diagnosed with that sort of personality. Googling 'Dark Triad' or Machiavellianism is a good place to start. Narcissism is a word thrown around too much lately, which is mainly used to describe people who are egotistical or arrogant. Real malignant narcissism is much more damaging than that.

Are you sure that boastfulness and delusions of grandeur don’t lead to social success? I thought they could get you elected President of the United States

I think I know what you mean.

Like a narcissist can have a very rosy perception of them self and so long as you don't do anything to challenge that narrative that they have about them self you might even believe that it's not a narrative, that it's the truth. But if you were to challenge their rosy view of them self by saying, ''but you hurt me when you forgot me, and then you glossed over it with such a bored wave of your hand, and then you got angry with me''. If you were to say a simple sentence like that, then their narrative would be threatened and holy moly would their rage be unleashed on to you.

My ex was like this but in a subtle, and often victim-like, manner. He'd say he was very empathetic and people are always telling their problems to him...but he'd leave out that actually he would always turn those conversations into him having things worse, etc.
He'd treat me like crap then make out I was unreasonable, selfish and mean because he was helping someone out that couldn't manage without his help (funnily it was always helpless women) and I didn't need his help. It was both dishing me a rare compliment at the same time as an insult and making him out to be the hero. And it also isolated me because if I said anything to friends, he was able to make out I was unreasonable.
He'd make all sorts of obscure claims that are impossible to prove as a lie.

My ex was like this and it’s seems it’s all a very subtle ploy to make them seem better so that a victim will have evidence they are better from outside the relationship. In comparison the victim will be below them and question there own behaviour because on the outside they are amazing, more giving, more sociable, the centre of attention.
They play a long game, they do not show there real self in public, whatever they say is a stage for something much bigger. So do they genuinely believe they are bigger and better, I don’t think they actually care it’s just a game play, mine was actually terribly insecure.

@Dogfan Things like 'I'm a (insert career here) earning £77,000 a year' (probably a vastly inflated number) he would say in front of everyone sometimes.

Yep @wobblywinelover he would actually admit he has narcissistic traits and it was quite clear in how he would manipulate or whatever, all sorts of ways, not just this one.

Second that ...very very insecure to the point of will not even go into an unknown situation -even a shop .
But feels free to tell you how bad you are for laughing and having fun with friends ,workmates ,anything that you enjoy .

My narcissistic abusive ex used to drum it in that he couldn't stand liars. Yet him and his best friend were the type of people, who you know that they were lying because their lips were moving.
He also liked to comment on posts about DV, or FB videos of men hitting women. When he'd been physically abusive to all of his girlfriends. He was also bullying towards female relatives.
He was massively insecure, he couldn't live alone, but a big mouth in company that he knew well.

The examples that you’ve given are very blatant but I’ve seen this kind of dissonance in action at a more subtle level. In the examples I’m thinking of, there’s a mismatch between what is said and what is actually happening and in my experience many, many people accept the words and don’t notice what to others is a glaring contradiction.

In fact I’d say that it is a foundational aspect of modern statehood - whether it comes in the form of outright propaganda or simply media outlets in the pocket of interest groups. There are an alarming number of people who present journalists opinions as their own and cannot take analysis to the next level. In fact I’d say that the ability to genuinely critique is quite rare (though most people fervently believe that they can).

In family dynamics, particularly where dc are growing up with a parent who distorts and gaslights and publicises their own version of reality, it must be quite a powerful tool.

It’s also well documented in work environments that men over estimate their abilities but those abilities are more highly regarded for doing so.

I think you’re actually relatively unusual for being able to see through it, op.