Was I right to call off the wedding?

[chersbestwig]

I'm in a muddle and feeling really sad and confused. I was due to get married in a couple of weeks (no big ceremony, just a small thing) and I have called off the wedding. I just need a bit of a coach from women tougher than me to feel okay that I have done the right thing.

It's a muddle because there is so much good along with the bad. I love DP very deeply and believe he loves me too just as much. There is so much good in our relationship. We are best friends, he is kind, we argue with compassion, we enjoy the same things, we want the same thing out of life, he is always really loving, the sex is great, we are always honest, we communicate very well, we laugh all the time, there's equality, support and we are definitely better together than apart.

However, I think real loyalty, respect and trust are lacking between us and those are things I feel I can't live without.

This all focusses around his ex, who is a pretty horrible person. I am not just saying that out of some misplaced jealousy or some sense of bias. She is factually a pretty horrible person and he had PTSD from their relationship.

She's narcissistic, highly manipulative and has even been violent. He had to file domestics abuse reports and so on. All pretty horrible and it took a lot of therapy for him to get on solid ground after he left her. They have a kid (older), so "no contact" is not possible and on several occasions she has used contact regarding their child to try hoovering him. It's been a persistent problem that he lacks boundaries and tramples over what I tell him makes me feel hurt or threatened.

To give you an example of what I mean, she found that we were engaged and started emailing and calling, requesting to meet up with him for "closure" and saying she needed him because she was unable to cope. I told him it was classic hoovering and not to go, but she pushed and pushed for weeks on end with waterworks, suicide threats and so on until he caved and met her on account of him worries about his child if she was in such a state.

Any contact with her at all always results in the same thing. She makes him forget the abuse, she reminds him of "good times", she makes him feel he was to blame for all her abuse (he really believes this) and then he comes away almost with abuse amnesia where he sees her as a victim and so on.

So as a result of that meeting, he ended up relaxing boundaries, thinking they could be "friendly" again and entering into an email exchange where he said things about fond memories with her, which she then screenshotted and emailed to me to try and end our engagement. Which is what she does (as I said, a terrible person).

It is like he gets literally brainwashed with any contact with her. He established in therapy that this is part of the hoovering and he read books on it and cognitively understands she is manipulating him and is trying to get rid of me, but he always ends up getting suckered back into a conversation with her. She has bombarded us with attempts to break us up over a very long period, and even stalked me at one point.

I have dealt with her, and I will be honest, she even had me believing she was my best friend because she is very good at playing the victim and she's very charming (she fits the bill of a female psychopath actually) and she has such a way with words that you come away very confused so I do understand how she makes him feel obligated and guilty, but the problem is I set boundaries and he doesn't follow them.

I am not threatened that he will leave me for her or that he still loves her, I believe that's not the case. I am threatened by the fact she is going out of her way to destroy our lives and has done some truly teeth chattering things that scare me. I want him to keep me and us safe and I want him to also put me and us first.

The problem with lack of trust, loyalty and respect is that he repeatedly allows contact with her beyond what is absolutely necessary and this then leads to the abuse amnesia and I feel like we are not on a team together. I feel if he agrees not to speak to her, then he does, that I can't trust him. I feel that he has been disloyal in lots of ways by saying things to her and to others in the family which undermine me. I think he shows a lack of respect by not seeing how much it affects me.

I'm not a jealous woman, but this particular ex has genuinely been so awful to us and on so many occasions she has phoned or emailed me to try and get rid of me and the fact she can get him to do things (even if stopping for a cup of tea) which make me feel betrayed just makes me feel I can't marry this person.

He says he loves me and wants to marry me and really only has anything to do with her because of their kid. Which I understand, but which I also think is being used to manipulate me into tolerating things no one should have to tolerate. I am fine with my husband being friendly with his ex, but not if that person is terrorizing me!

He is a good man who loves me, I know this. But I think he's also a weak man who is a bit of a people pleaser so because she is demanding and a bully and I am gentle and calm he tends to let her win and it's just too much to live like this.

I did the right thing didn't I?

Yes, you did. Because of HIS behaviours and choices.

If has concerns for his DCs’ welfare there are others ways he could address that.

Thanks Dozer. I just need to feel heard and understood and he has some sort of mental block on all this. I think he sees it as him "keeping everyone happy" when it's really only him / me / us we should have concern for.

I am also really upset because recently an ex contacted me to say he still had feelings for me and this upset my fiance. Without needing to discuss it further, I told my ex it was nice he reached out but we could have no contact because I was engaged. I blocked the man because I didn't wan't my fiance to feel threatened or undermined.

I just don't understand why he would not do the same for me. I appreciate there is a child involved (I have granted a lot off leeway), but this isn't an ex - it is an ex who is actively trying to break up our relationship and one who is very abusive to me. I had to get counselling because she gave me nightmares.

I just feel like he has absolutely no empathy and needed to hear like people could see me.

Yes you did.

Christ, she sounds scarily like my STBXH's ex. They split up nearly 21 years ago, and she's made it her mission in life to continually terrorise me and him.

She has professionally diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder and is a genuinely horrific person - her constant abuse and threats, and STBXH's complete lack of boundaries and failure to defend me is one of the many reasons I'm divorcing him.

You ABSOLUTELY did the right thing, trust me. This woman would NEVER stop hounding you otherwise. Protect yourself and your own sanity, and don't look back, as hard as that may be.

There would be three people in the marriage. You have done the right thing, he is spineless.

@BeautyGoesToBenidorm I am so sorry you have been through this. It's bloody awful. Both me and DP have had stress related illness as it's been so bad.

I love him and could live with a crazy ex, but like you say it's HIS choices and lack of boundaries which give her ammunition and the way he switches from being terrified of her to thinking she's not that bad and we can all get on.

It literally always ends up in her contacting me to hurt me. She has done it probably once every 2 months for the past year. She says things like "if he loves you so much, why did he stop in for tea". He walks into it, and I pay the price.

@MingeofDeath is that what it is? Spineless? His therapist says it's Stockholm Syndrome. It fits with that as he seems to flip into some bizarre loyalty and sense of fondness for someone who has literally physically and mentally assaulted him repeatedly.

I wonder if he's getting something from it - the feeling of being wanted and chased by two women?! He isn't a malicious person, probably more naive to the point of ridiculous but he cannot see how hurtful and scary it is for me. Or he says he does, then he doesn't stand up for us.

Well done you. Don't look back.

Yes, you did.

I had doubts before my first wedding (circumstances not quite as horrible as yours) but went ahead anyway. I ended up leaving 5 months later and will always regret not just calling it off in the first place.

You did the right thing.

All for different reasons, but I married someone when I should've had your guts and called it off. The marriage lasted just 18 months and it was a costly mistake both financially and emotionally. The financial side of the divorce set me back years and I still feel sick about the money wasted on the wedding.

I wish I had been as brave as you, don't doubt yourself.

@chersbestwig I really, really feel for you. It's soul destroying, isn't it?

The final nail in the coffin was when she started sending fake screenshots as "evidence" of STBXH messaging underage girls - they were blatantly fake, as they didn't remotely resemble his writing style, but was very much hers.

STBXH didn't tell me they were being sent to him too, instead he deleted everything. That decimated my already enormous lack of trust in him (he has form for secretive behaviour regarding other women, but that's a whole other thread).

I know it's a heartbreaking situation you've found yourself in, but please believe me and PPs that you've 100% done the right thing.

If you need to talk, my PMs are always open

He needs more counselling tbh.
Because as you say he is STILL unable too see her for who she is, he still believe she is the victim etc….
She really had him hadn’t she? :(

Thanks for the support all. I am feeling so bloody sad right now and second guessing myself.

@NotAllTheOnesWhoWanderAreLost it's not that he doesn't see her for what she is, it's that he sees her as two completely separate people. One is kind, loving, caring, clever, funny and came from an abusive childhood and makes him feel he needs to look after her. She can turn on the charm like nothing you've ever seen (as I said, it's worked on me multiple times too). Then he sees a completely separate, terrifying monster and his brain cannot put the two together. It's like being brainwashed.

Not that any of that matters, even if she were the nicest person in the world the point is if I say "do not go in for a cup of tea" and him doing it ends in drama and pain then that's the problem.

Doesn’t matter v much WHY he did/didn’t do X, Y, Z. He didn’t handle himself or his contacts with his ex well, and thereby repeatedly increased your ‘exposure’ to his ex, and hurt you.

Sounds like you erred by not walking away much, much sooner, for your own sake.

I know someone who cancelled her wedding, and later ended her relationship, because her DP had poor boundaries with his (nice!) ex wife. Inconveniencing and upsetting my friend. She brought up her concerns and feelings over time, he made no changes and ‘gaslit’ her over it.

She later met, had a much better time with and recently married someone else!

You did the right thing even without an explanation. Any doubts are a good enough reason to cancel. Marriage isn't the only way.
You've been really brave and should be proud of yourself.
I'm sorry you are in this situation it sounds horrible.
Always put yourself first and don't let anyone drag you down.

@BeautyGoesToBenidorm It's awful. The situation was, she was / is much older than him and she latched onto him when he was just 16 after his Mum had recently passed. She was 28 at the time and he was too young to know what hit him and had never had another relationship before so he had no idea it was odd that she wouldn't let him go out or tracked his every move or controlled him with blackmail. It took him a long time to get out.

As for her behavior now, honestly, it has been dreadful. We have had it all. Stalking, unwanted visits, threats, intimidation, triangulation, flying monkeys, smear campaigns, suicide threats, using their child as a pawn. The personality disorder arsenal.

The one that bothers me most is that she still tries to mother him, and suckers him in with that. "come in for a cuppa as we really need to talk about DC it an emergency"

He does it

She is super nice to him

The super nice goes on for a week or two.

The cuppas become a "norm"

She pretends to be caring and asks him about me and us (even saying she is happy with someone else to bring his defences down).

She manipulates / orchestrates something to happen (nothing big but something like an email or him having a drink with her) then she messages or emails me with the details as proof he loves her and not me.

She has done that about six times!!!! Typical tactics would be something like parents evening. She doesn't drive and asks him to pick her up. He goes to pick her up and then she says she isn't quite ready and to get himself a drink while she does her makeup. He has a drink, and then a week later she's calling me saying "did he tell you we had a drink together?!"

It's just horrible and has been so horrible and the fact he can't see her fully as the monster she is just makes me feel alone.

Did it perhaps occur to anyone that he is still being abused?
Not only women can be the victims of emotional and psychological abuse and it sounds like he is still suffering as a result. This is obviously made harder as he has a child with this woman.

@chersbestwig you need to do what is best for you and if that means walking away from the relationship then there is nothing wrong with that. Ultimatly she will be in your life 1 way or another until he accepts he is a victim, not her and does something about it......thats sometimes easier said than done.

Slightly off topic but is there a chance she is similarly abusing her child in the same way? Has this occurred to your partner?x

[quote chersbestwig]@BeautyGoesToBenidorm It's awful. The situation was, she was / is much older than him and she latched onto him when he was just 16 after his Mum had recently passed. She was 28 at the time and he was too young to know what hit him and had never had another relationship before so he had no idea it was odd that she wouldn't let him go out or tracked his every move or controlled him with blackmail. It took him a long time to get out.

As for her behavior now, honestly, it has been dreadful. We have had it all. Stalking, unwanted visits, threats, intimidation, triangulation, flying monkeys, smear campaigns, suicide threats, using their child as a pawn. The personality disorder arsenal.

The one that bothers me most is that she still tries to mother him, and suckers him in with that. "come in for a cuppa as we really need to talk about DC it an emergency"

He does it

She is super nice to him

The super nice goes on for a week or two.

The cuppas become a "norm"

She pretends to be caring and asks him about me and us (even saying she is happy with someone else to bring his defences down).

She manipulates / orchestrates something to happen (nothing big but something like an email or him having a drink with her) then she messages or emails me with the details as proof he loves her and not me.

She has done that about six times!!!! Typical tactics would be something like parents evening. She doesn't drive and asks him to pick her up. He goes to pick her up and then she says she isn't quite ready and to get himself a drink while she does her makeup. He has a drink, and then a week later she's calling me saying "did he tell you we had a drink together?!"

It's just horrible and has been so horrible and the fact he can't see her fully as the monster she is just makes me feel alone.[/quote]
My first question would be how does she keep getting your email and phone number every month and why wasn't she blocked on all platforms the first time she contacted you? Block her. It's not like you need to have contact with her. You could also take control here by preventing her contacting you in the first place.

You did the right thing. Unless HE wants to change it’ll be a never ending heartache for you. You will feel more and more invalidated and disrespected and gaslighted for not being supportive and understanding enough. He’ll see himself as the victim of this situation, whereas in reality he’s a co-creator of this dysfunctional dynamic.
Look after yourself.

You've done the right thing. Too many people go through with a wedding when they have serious doubts and it is never a good thing.
Have you ended the relationship or just cancelled the wedding?

Can I be really frank? She’s got what she wanted now. You’ve called your wedding off because of her and that’s played right into her controlling narrative. She’s been handed power because, not only has she got your bloke dancing to her tune, but now you are too. I bet she’s ecstatic.

The biggest proof that he wants you, not her, would be to get married. He didn’t marry her, did he? And she didn’t want him to marry you either so you obligingly called the wedding off. I can completely see why you did it but it’s reinforced her sense of her own importance and, as she perceives it, your lack of it in your partner’s life.

How long before she’s whispering in his ear that you don’t really love him, look you called your wedding off, you wouldn’t do that if you were committed to him, etc.

What she’s doing is vile and it must be dreadful for you but you’re enabling it. Set and agree sensible boundaries about things that really matter and stick to them - do you really care if they drink tea together? Block her emails, texts or any way she contacts you, there’s no need for her to contact you at all. Take back the power.

@Kiki275 He / we worried of course, but the aggressive behavior is only for him. He is a really good Dad and tries his best to provide her with stability and so on. This child is 15 now and it a happy, adjusted girl who seems to look after her Mum like a parent to be honest. I think that's the toxic parenting - rather than being frightening she sort of enmeshes herself. We tried to give her as much stability as we could.

@Geanna2 of course we did! She changes her number, using VPN, uses software, creates email addresses. She is relentless! It comes in waves, a bit of peace and quiet and then she's off again.

@WB205020 I am certain he is still being abused! Hence he is in therapy - I persuaded him to go. We read books on it. I support him with it. We read a book on "emotional blackmail" where an abuser uses FOG (Fear, obligation and guilt) and she does all that. She literally does 90% of the big list of abusive behaviors. Some to me as well. He is most certainly still fitting the profile of an abuse victim, especially in believing it was his fault.

The problem is even though I know he is being abused, does it really matter? This last blowout was basically that her showing me a message from him she had manipulated him into sending by leading him into it where he said stuff on the lines of "you don't need to apologise, I brought it all on myself, of course I have good memories before things went wrong".

I was DEVASTATED. She didn't just message it to me, she called me over a hundred times that day having a major meltdown and telling me I couldn't trust him and he was mentally ill - it really was just so bloody awful. I went ballistic and told him any more contact or bull shit whatsoever and the wedding was off.

He then a few days later got himself into being in the pub having a drink with best friend and his wife. they were best friends when he was married and the wife of his friend is best friends with the ex. So they were having a drink and the ex came in and he sat and had drinks as a foursome. I am certain she had colluded this with the best friend's wife, as they are friends and it's typical of the stalking behavior.

Genuinely I was in disbelief, but he claims he couldn't be rude and he had a couple of drinks and when she tried to get him talking and he cut her off she left in tears after getting emotional.

I mean - seriously?!!! This is what I mean, because (a) he is normalising having a drink with his abuser who's terrorized me (b) he is breaking a boundary I set a few days earlier with clear consequences (c) he is chatting as a foursome with his bloody ex wife whilst I am at home.

He knows what the result will be because he took the day off work in a panic because he knows this is likely to lead to her harrassing me again and he kept saying "I love you, whatever she says, I did not plan to meet her, she engineered to show up". Which I believe, but why did he stay?! I hope you can see what I mean about trust / loyalty / respect.

So I called the wedding off and called and cancelled all our suppliers and so on. I just couldn't marry someone who would do this. He kept saying she was just upping her game of desperation before the wedding and it would be over soon, but even if that's true it's not the point. I'd expect him to walk out of the pub and be loyal.

Yes, you were right. He needs to see how this is affecting his current life. The key is in your post. YOU set boundaries, HE doesnt follow them. Until he sets his own, it is hard to see how this could improve. In terms of his inability to break free, he was predated upon when he was a child - in the US she would be charged with sexual abuse of a child because of when they started their relationship. He needs more therapy, Mankind and perhaps the freedom program? So sorry for you, must be so hard for you to be dragged into this.