Staying together through guilt *SUICIDE TRIGGER*

[PurplePeopleEater76]

TRIGGER WARNING

I have posted on here before about my marriage, which I'm not happy in, but things have taken a new turn.
Long story short, my husband, over the last few years, has become more and more depressed.
He lost his dad after a long illness, his relationship with his mum has broken down because she has become very angry about it all and is taking it out on her son because he reminds her of his dad (that's a whole other thread right there).

My husband has never been particularly good around the house but now he's just lazy, he does work, but that is literally it. He doesn't wash, he doesn't eat unless I tell him to, he's massively overweight. I forced him to seek medical help because I can see him literally dying in front of me, but he had one appointment, lied about everything and refuses to go back. I work too and because of his snoring, I'm doing well to get 4 hours sleep so I'm exhausted.

So, eventually I said I was leaving, I can't cope any more. He said he would improve.

He didn't but I agreed to give him a 4 week timescale.
During those 4 weeks, I tripped over a shoe he had left in the middle of the floor and got annoyed.

He stormed out, then rang me ten minutes later, sobbing that he was useless, he wouldn't be a burden any more and he was going to kill himself.
He had gone to the exact place a friend of mine (not his) did the same a few years ago.

I tried to phone the police but couldn't get through (!!), because I couldn't get there quickly enough.

He rang straight back and said he was sorry, he had scared himself but wasn't going to do it.

He came home, we had a MASSIVE discussion about everything and I have been basically walking on eggshells since. He promised 100% to seek help. Here we are, weeks later, he is still depressed, still not doing anything, but has done nothing about getting help.
If I mention it he flies off the handle (never, ever physically, just shouting) and says it's fine now, he's not going to "do that" any more, because me and the kids are all he lives for.

I did consider getting him sectioned at one point but he is worried that any mental health issues will affect his job and he says that is the one area of his life where he feels in control and has begged me not to make him put it in record.

I have spoken in confidence to his GP but he is unable to help without his consent.

So, now I'm back to wanting to leave again, because I can't live like ut. I have looked into financial support and so on and it's perfectly possible for me to take the kids and start somewhere else.

But I am scared that if I do, he will try it again and succeed, which I would then have to live with for the rest of my life, and the kids would lose their dad because their mum couldn't handle everything.

He has no real friends to speak of, I have spoken to a few of his mates in confidence and they've said they will give him a call, but he only answers his phone to me, my mum or our daughter. He hangs up on everyone else so even if they do phone he won't answer.

I genuinely feel like I have to choose between putting up with this shit until his health eventually kills him, or getting my own life back in the hope he doesn't carry out his threat.

I just don't know what to do any more.

Talk to him again and very clearly tell him that it is ridiculous for him to rather kill himself that look into getting into healthier and more helpful habits.

Maybe write up a schedule where he just does one small thing a week? Or a day? So week one - shower every other day and go on an evening walk with you every other day. Look at some tasty meals - fakeaways or a cuisine he enjoys. Book something fun to do together that you know he will enjoy.

Just so that he sees that it isn't a chore but can be fun and he can feel better and healthier.

I don't have any proper advice, it sounds utterly horrendous for both of you.

But IMO while your husband may be very unhappy, it's not a life for you to be with someone out of guilt or any kind of fear.

If you left him and he took his own life, it wouldn't be because you couldn't handle anything. You would be handling things- you'd be doing what's best for you and your children and you'd be able to explain that to them if you ever needed to.

You can try to help him but ultimately he has to make the changes, and it's unfair of him to guilt trip you or expect you to live like this.

@Sakurami

Talk to him again and very clearly tell him that it is ridiculous for him to rather kill himself that look into getting into healthier and more helpful habits.

Maybe write up a schedule where he just does one small thing a week? Or a day? So week one - shower every other day and go on an evening walk with you every other day. Look at some tasty meals - fakeaways or a cuisine he enjoys. Book something fun to do together that you know he will enjoy.

Just so that he sees that it isn't a chore but can be fun and he can feel better and healthier.

Fuck that, you’re not his mum.

Sorry to be harsh, but it sounds like OP has already tried cajoling and supporting. You can lead a horse to water and all that…

If you DO leave, any choices he makes as an adult are 100% on him. You are not responsible for anyone else’s suicide or threats of. (Unless or course you’d been hounding and bullying him into it, which of course you haven’t). I know that wouldn’t make you feel any better if it happened, but honestly you need to spell it out to him, you’re not going to live like this, you’re leaving, he has to sort himself out because he’s dragging you and the kids down with him.

Sometimes people need to lose it all and hit rock bottom before they make any changes to their life. At the moment he can get away with being like this because he has you there facilitating his life. But when it’s just him he’ll have to sort himself out because you won’t be there to do it for him or to watch while he sabotages himself.

As harsh as that sounds, it may actually help him to have nobody but himself to focus on. In a much smaller way, when my DP is away eg on business or something, I get much more done around the house as I can focus solely on myself and my DCs.

By your own admission staying is actually enabling him to go through with an incredibly slow death. Staying is no more helping him that it is you and it certainly isnt helping your children.

I think you need to say that it isnt fair on your or the children to be his reason - and he needs to seek help. While he does that it is best for you to separate and if he manages to get help you are there

It won't be your fault if he kills himself, it will be his choice. I'm going through this with a friend at the mo, her partner left as he couldn't cope with her depression, and he stayed for an extra year as she kept saying she could cope without him. First she just threatened, so he rang the police to warn them, that was three threats, then a failed attempt where she took drugs that needed far more tablets than she took to take affect and he rang the ambulance, next time she tried she took a drug where it wouldn't have killed her anyway, and we rang the police, told him to stay away. It made her realise the threats didn't work and gave her no option. I'm not saying he won't, but with my friend it was a control method to try and keep him, she had no intention of actually suceeding

You have to leave OP, he’s dragging you down with him. If he says he wants to fix things, great, you leave, he has 6 months alone to work on himself and then you can see how you feel, but he’s already proven he won’t change whilst you’re there so that’s now off the table.

and the kids would lose their dad because their mum couldn't handle everything

And please don’t think like this. You are never responsible for his choices. You are not duty bound to sacrifice your happiness for him.

My ex husband used to use threats of suicide as a means of control. Nearly 20 years divorced and he's not killed himself. Don't stick around letting him guilt trip you into staying.

It sounds like you've tried to help him repeatedly. You can't put your own life on hold because he refuses to use the help available, no matter how guilty you feel.

"I did consider getting him sectioned at one point "

Um this is not something you can do. you can ask for a MH assessment but he would also have to consent to this unless he was psychotic

How old are the kids? I think you need to leave him, but I’d be worried about having to send younger kids to spend time with him as he doesn’t sound capable. If I could make sure that wouldn’t happen, then I’d do it. You can’t stay with someone because of suicide threats and it would not be your fault if it did happen - it’s his responsibility. The kids presumably are suffering with him being like this, as are you. I think you’d all have a better life away from him and he’d be more likely to get help.

I would then have to live with for the rest of my life, and the kids would lose their dad because their mum couldn't handle everything

If he did commit suicide (which I doubt he would, sounds more like emotional blackmail / mind games!) he is the only person deciding to take his life. It is not your fault, you would not be to blame in any way. Your health and wellbeing matters just as much as his and everyone else's. If you do believe he would attempt suicide then you must alert the relevant people / authorities. I don't think they would consider sectioning him at this point, though.
That doesn't mean you stay. You live your life!!! What's the point in you being miserable too.

My friend went through something v similar. Her 'D'H was a lazy, unattractive, emotionally abusive arse who would threaten to kill himself if she left. She was desperately unhappy throughout her 30s and felt she couldn't leave incase he did it. Well would you believe she turned 40 and amazingly he decided to get in to shape, be less of a boring lay-around. Within a year he left her for a younger woman he'd been seeing on the sly. Friend has the kids all but 2 weekends a month, strapped for cash while he swans around living the life of Riley, fancy holidays and gorgeous new house. She wasted so many years being unhappy, for an absolute bastard. How I wished she'd have done what was best for HER.

OP

I have been here. Lived in misery for years. The kids lived under the same dark cloud. It was oppressive and unhealthy. I couldn't get him to move out once the decision was made. He repeatedly threatened suicide.

Eventually he cut up his arms with a Stanley knife in my daughter's bed (outside upper arm, shallow). I sat with him through a call to the samaritans, 111 and had him taken to the hospital. He voluntarily admitted himself to Bethlem, otherwise he would have been committed.

Every day he called me begging to come back. Nope. I kept calling the psychiatrist to tell him he was suicidal. In the end the psychiatrist got quite fed up and told me that he himself was more suicidal than my ex and that I was being manipulated to stay.

A few things to think about:
The choice of location for his suicide plan seems rather manipulative. I have been suicidal for a few years now. The decision as to how, where takes time and is personal. Co opting your friends place is suspect and seems aimed for maximum impact.

Threatening suicide is a very effective form of manipulation. It is also very very toxic. I only told people my plan after I knew I wouldn't use it. If he does kill himself, that will be his choice totally, just as it is his choice to make you stay out of guilt.

The kids will be being affected by this. If he is suicidal, he is not mentally fit to be around your children. He needs to seek help and stability first.

**"I did consider getting him sectioned at one point "

Um this is not something you can do. you can ask for a MH assessment but he would also have to consent to this unless he was psychotic.**

You are mistaken. Someone can be sectioned if they are deemed a danger to themselves even through depression. It’s not only people suffering with psychosis who are sectioned.

Suicide as a form of manipulation is common, and I think your DH is trying to manipulate you into staying.

It's working on you, though, isn''t it? You're the one feeling guilty and walking on eggshells, while he's living his life as he wants. He doesn't care about you, or he would have made efforts during that 4 weeks you gave him. You are not the one who should feel guilty.

You and your DC need to leave, you need a life where you can be calm and not live in an abusive atmosphere. Because it is abusive.

My ex tried using "suicide" attempts to get me to come back, but I was prepared for the possibility and called the police for a welfare check. I did this again on two more occasions, until he got the hint I wasn't going to be manipulated. I think the police had a word as well.

On the final "suicide" stunt he pulled, I caught him in a bare faced lie, in writing, but again ignored him. Basically I could prove he was pulling a stunt. He actually dropped dead suddenly of natural causes.

I sppent 30 years witth my ex, most of the time treading on eggshells because of his depression and "suicide" threats. Don't waste your time like I did.

Eventually you're going to have a physical breakdown due to lack of sleep alone, never mind all the additional stress he is piling on you! Tell him you're going to leave if he doesn't seek help and then FOLLOW THROUGH!

Suicide survivour here. And I mean I actually did it, three times. Not threaten ot although I did tell people I was in a bad way before.

Therefore this might sound quite odd but I think this is a manipulation to reassert control over you.

That being said, every time someone says, 'I'm in a very bad way' take them seriously but equally you are NOT responsible.

I think that's the difference. Geuine people say, 'I think I'm bad. I'm not coping' ungeuine people will be overtly drammatic but never follow through. This is a mind fucker at epic levels.

Don't ever allow anyone to tie you into a situation which you know is wrong for you because this manipulation is being levelled.

Invariably they won't. But you will. Your spirit will be broken by degrees.

Best of British OP. You know what to do I think.

OP, I'm so sorry you are in this position, it sounds incredibly hard.

I just wanted to echo what a PP said

If he is suicidal, he is not mentally fit to be around your children.

This is so true. It will be so damaging to your children to live like this.

@happygoooolucky

**"I did consider getting him sectioned at one point "

Um this is not something you can do. you can ask for a MH assessment but he would also have to consent to this unless he was psychotic.**

You are mistaken. Someone can be sectioned if they are deemed a danger to themselves even through depression. It’s not only people suffering with psychosis who are sectioned.

The point is that OP cannot 'get him sectioned'. Someone can indeed BE sectioned, but it doesn't happen on the say-so of a wife whether after 'consideration' or not.

OP, stop trying to be his nurse. Stop being a saviour. Stop being so very understanding, important and vital that only you can save his life. Give up being so special and so needed. Stop standing between this man and the actual, proper, qualified medical help he needs. Just - stop it.

If you need help to escape from this co-dependancy then find a qualified counsellor for yourself. If you truly want to, that is.

But I am scared that if I do, he will try it again and succeed, which I would then have to live with for the rest of my life, and the kids would lose their dad because their mum couldn't handle everything

But he didn't try - he went somewhere, (you don't know if he really went where he said) and claimed he was going to do something to himself, then phoned you back saying he wasn't after all. All very dramatic but he may have just been down the road all worked up for all you know.

Interesting that he picked a place associated with your friend's suicide - calculated to scare the shit out of you. And since then he has relied on your fear of him hurting himself and done precisely zero to help himself.

It's not the case you would be failing your children or "not handling everything" if he did do something to himself. He's responsible for himself, if he killed himself it would not be your fault, it would be his choice.

If he's as unwell as he says, he needs proper help and he's not going to get it while you're enabling him.

@cheeseismydownfall

OP, I'm so sorry you are in this position, it sounds incredibly hard.

I just wanted to echo what a PP said

If he is suicidal, he is not mentally fit to be around your children.

This is so true. It will be so damaging to your children to live like this.

This quote is incredibly damaging for those that have undergone very severe trauma indeed.

A geuine person does not wake up one day and say...ill just pretend to kill myself.

Geuine people who take that step have often been horribly abused. They deserve care and understanding. Possibly time away from the family unit. That I get.

I was never afforded that option. Ever. I've had my own parents calling me stupid because I was at rock bottom.

Cheers for that. Thanks. Really appreciate it.

You aren't the only one to go through trauma. There is a trigger warning. Suicide threats ARE used by some as manipulation.

I hope you feel better soon

Nobody is responsible for someone else's suicide. I would ditch like a hot coal anyone who tried to manipulate me like that.

Take the kids and go. If he threatens again, ask police to do a welfare check and keep doing that until he gets the message.

You are not responsible for his mental well being.

He is manipulating you

He doesn't want help his choice
You cannot get him sectioned. Professionals need to do this.
You say He is v overweight and risking his life anyway.

You cannot save him
Take dc and go

Tell his gp what you are doing

If he does call threatening suicide then call 999

Ultimately it would be his choice
But sounds like manipulation

@TVS19, I'm really sorry that my comment and requote upset you, of course that wasn't my intention.

I was writing it from my own perspective as a child of a mother with long term depression. She only twice threatened suicide (that I can remember/am aware of), and I doubt she even meant it, it was a cry for help. But I cannot begin to explain the impact it had on me as a child (I think I was around six). It terrified me and absolutely haunted me for years. I was so desperately scared whenever she got upset, that this would be it, this would be the time she did it.

You are quite right that the words were clumsy and of course I don't mean that parents with depression don't deserve or are a danger to their children. But I do believe that they need protecting from its impact.

If he is suicidal, he is not mentally fit to be around your children.

Agree. A dear friend of mine (in her 30s now) is still having therapy following her father's mental ill-health and suicide attempts (threats) made during her childhood.

It had a massive impact on her teenage years, relationship with both parents and decisions she has made in her adult life. She should have been protected from being around him.