Muslim perspective needed please x

[Nadiasnails]

There's a situation I'd like to ask about. My friend is a British white convert to Islam (twice divorced with a young child). I've know her for around 20 years so we understand each other quite well.
She's recently confided in me that she's fallen in love with a non-Muslim man. From what I know, he doesn't follow any religion but he's very respectful towards her being Muslim. In fairness to them, he sounds lovely and I know he treats her well.
She was married previously to 2 Arab guys who both treated her little rubbish and didn't respect her as a Muslim or as an kind of woman. This (non-Muslim) man sounds wonderful but my only concern for her is that he's not Muslim. She talks about a future with him and he doesn't pressure her to quit Islam or anything like that. In fact, he sounds very supportive - buys her halal food, encourages her to wear hijab and so on.
My friend's faith is strong but because of both traumatic marriages, she'd never marry another Muslim man.
There's no way he's open to embracing any sort of religion and she respects his position on this. He speaks well of Islam but isn't interested in adopting it.
Any advice? Please, no replies saying how "haram" the relationship is and how it's haram to fall for a non-Muslim. These kind of comments aren't helpful and I really want to support my friend.

What worries you - that he will cause your friend to lose her faith because he is an atheist? That your friend will be ostracised from the Muslim community because the relationship is not acceptable? Or something else?

He is kind to her. Her previous two husbands were not. Does it matter that he is not Muslim?

What advice could you possibly need? She is your friend and her relationship is none of your concern. What else is there to it? If she's your friend and you love her, you support her, especially given she's not doing anything wrong.

well, the most likely outcome to me is that they get together and her faith becomes less important and they live a pretty much secular lifestyle.

I am struggling to see why that would be an issue though.

You're not going to get the Islamic perspex Ives you need on here. If ylshes a practicing Muslimah and so are you then you know the answer and what needs to be done. Speak to someone in your local community/imam etc. She herself is a revert so anything is possible.....

I'm really sorry but I'm not sure what you're asking. Your friend has met a lovely, kind, respectful man after two crap marriages. The Muslim angle seems like an irrelevance without some context about the nature of your concerns. At first glance there seems to be no problem here.

Thanks for the replies.
When my friend confided in me about the relationship, she admitted she felt kind of 'guilty' about it because she has always been strong in her faith and expected that any future partner would be Muslim, with the same beliefs and lifestyle..
She just feels a little 'torn' between him and keeping up her lifestyle as a devout Muslim. I think this is where her guilt comes from. I've not advised her for or against this relationship, I just listened to her. I didn't want to impose my views on her or influence her.

I suspect she’ll start to lose her faith. Is this an issue? If she’s married 2 abusive Arab men and reverted as a result of one of them then her faith is clearly influenced by her relationships.

Struggle to see it as an issue or anything you need help with TBH.

I was married for many years to a Muslim man, have children together, he never expected me to follow the faith, he could marry anyone of “one book” without the letter of the Koran and this is how it should be, respectful.

Women however should not marry out of the faith and the reasoning is any children adopt the fathers religion. I’ll hold my own opinion on that one.

I’m a Catholic woman married to a Muslim man (we got married in a Muslim country) and, as far as I’m aware, the only reason non Muslim men need to convert to marry a Muslim woman is that, in Islam, children get their religion from the father. It’s not haram to marry a non Muslim as long as any future children will be Muslim too.
Being with someone of a different religion/no religion does nothing to diminish your own, unless you let it

She can’t marry him unless he converts. She will know this and must understand this islamic position.

You can only advise her once and remind her once about her religious duty.

Apart from that, there is nothing else you can do. The rest is between her and God.

As GuavaFish said , the guy will need to convert for them to marry . Of course she will know this. And she will be able to help him in this

Many people convert and do not practice , just as many are born into the religion and do not practice . Or he can go step by step

Good luck to her .

Presumably she became a Muslim because of one of the Muslim men she maried, who then turned out to be/she realised was abusive.

So on one level perhaps she's ready to no longer follow the religion her abusive husbands insisted that she followed.

Not that there's anything wrong with Islam. After those experiences I can see how someone might go off it, though.

There are some more laid-back or progressive forms of Islam- she could get into that, like relax what she believes en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism_and_progressivism_within_Islam Just a suggestion. I mean, she maybe kind of has.

my only concern for her is that he's not Muslim. She talks about a future with him and he doesn't pressure her to quit Islam or anything like that. In fact, he sounds very supportive - buys her halal food, encourages her to wear hijab and so on. My friend's faith is strong but because of both traumatic marriages, she'd never marry another Muslim man.

So, is she bothered about it particularly or is it just that you are concerned for her? It doesn't sound like she's bothered about having a non-Muslim partner; it's what she wants if she has a partner at all. So- you have an issue with it and she doesn't.

I appreciate that people are supposed to encourage others in a faith to behave according to the rules- but I would just let her do what she wants TBH. It can't be any worse than her exes (famous last words.)

She can marry him without him converting, she'd just have to follow a more laissez-faire form of Islam, like most Christianity in the UK.

There's one rule for men and another for women in Islam, with Muslim men allowed to marry women who are from other religions of The Book. That's not really ok.

If this man is good to her, respects her faith and makes her happy, even if he isn’t a Muslim himself, I can’t see the issue. What’s more important to you, Islam or her happiness? I think her choice is between herself andAllah, don’t you?

Only God knows what is in a person's heart, She should ask for guidance in her prayers.

It changed recently and the male does not have to convert anymore to marry a Muslim woman
What can't they be happy with each other respecting both of their beliefs

@66babe the faith doesn’t change?

I'm no expert .. but I believe until a couple of years ago .. if a man wanted to marry a Muslim girl .. who was not from the same faith
He had no choice but to convert
That is no longer the case

Name changed for this as could be outing.

I’m a muslim woman and married a Christian guy when I was mid 20s and 6 years on I couldn’t be happier! He was actually the first non Muslim I dated and as my parents are quite religious, it’s not something I ever thought I’d do but he’s perfect for me.

He didn’t convert (said he would but I didn’t feel right asking him to), but completely respects my beliefs; I don’t drink or eat non halal meat and he now only drinks/eats non halal meat on rare occasions and it works well for us. If your friends new partner treats her well, the rest should (theoretically) not matter. Some of my extended family no longer speak to me but my parents are fine with us now. We found an imam in Oxford who did our nikkah without him converting, there are handful of them that do- we just had a meeting beforehand with him and he made sure we were both sure about getting married.

Not really sure what you’re looking for here.

You say you want a Muslim perspective but as you seem to already know Islamically she cannot marry him unless he converts.

So yes she will need to leave the faith to be with him. And if that’s what she wants then great.

Did she convert to marry the first Arab man or did she convert for the faith itself? This may make a difference to her. Or not.

But the Muslim perspective is no she can’t be with him as a practicing Muslim.
(and I’m not sure why you’re asking for this on MN tbh where there isn’t exactly a truckload of active Muslims and where there have been so many problematic threads about Islam and Muslims over the years. In fact it’s making me suspicious of this post 🤷🏽‍♀️)

Muslims may have married non Muslims and if they’re happy great but the Sunni Muslim jurisprudence on the matter is clear. From a purely Islamic perspective it is forbidden.

If that doesn’t bother her or anyone else then that’s between them and God.

I think you need to support her whatever she decides. Whether that's leaving her faith, leaving this mam or marrying him and still continuing to practice, even if it means pushbike from her community. If its what makes her happy, you should support her.

@Nadiasnails

There's a situation I'd like to ask about. My friend is a British white convert to Islam (twice divorced with a young child). I've know her for around 20 years so we understand each other quite well. She's recently confided in me that she's fallen in love with a non-Muslim man. From what I know, he doesn't follow any religion but he's very respectful towards her being Muslim. In fairness to them, he sounds lovely and I know he treats her well. She was married previously to 2 Arab guys who both treated her little rubbish and didn't respect her as a Muslim or as an kind of woman. This (non-Muslim) man sounds wonderful but my only concern for her is that he's not Muslim. She talks about a future with him and he doesn't pressure her to quit Islam or anything like that. In fact, he sounds very supportive - buys her halal food, encourages her to wear hijab and so on. My friend's faith is strong but because of both traumatic marriages, she'd never marry another Muslim man. There's no way he's open to embracing any sort of religion and she respects his position on this. He speaks well of Islam but isn't interested in adopting it. Any advice? Please, no replies saying how "haram" the relationship is and how it's haram to fall for a non-Muslim. These kind of comments aren't helpful and I really want to support my friend.

I know I’m late to the thread but her faith and her understanding of her religion can’t be very strong if she’s open to the idea of marrying a non-Muslim man. I’m very sorry for the trauma she has been through, but shouldn’t generalize. Not all Arab men are trash like those men. Not all Muslim men are trash. She should avoid men like her exes. Maybe take a break from marriage and focus on herself and her kids.

@Namechangetemp1

Name changed for this as could be outing.

I’m a muslim woman and married a Christian guy when I was mid 20s and 6 years on I couldn’t be happier! He was actually the first non Muslim I dated and as my parents are quite religious, it’s not something I ever thought I’d do but he’s perfect for me.

He didn’t convert (said he would but I didn’t feel right asking him to), but completely respects my beliefs; I don’t drink or eat non halal meat and he now only drinks/eats non halal meat on rare occasions and it works well for us. If your friends new partner treats her well, the rest should (theoretically) not matter. Some of my extended family no longer speak to me but my parents are fine with us now. We found an imam in Oxford who did our nikkah without him converting, there are handful of them that do- we just had a meeting beforehand with him and he made sure we were both sure about getting married.

Your marriage isn’t valid or accepted in Islam, so I don’t understand why the imam did that. Did you pay him or something?

@Somerandomshittyname

I’m a Catholic woman married to a Muslim man (we got married in a Muslim country) and, as far as I’m aware, the only reason non Muslim men need to convert to marry a Muslim woman is that, in Islam, children get their religion from the father. It’s not haram to marry a non Muslim as long as any future children will be Muslim too. Being with someone of a different religion/no religion does nothing to diminish your own, unless you let it

You’re very wrong. I don’t know why you would post something like this considering a quick google search will give you the correct answer. A non Muslim man can not give her the rights she’s owed as his wife. He can’t raise his children upon Islam.