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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What a mess, advice needed please

96 replies

Anon2000 · 19/06/2021 23:42

Hi All
So been on mumsnet a while, but dont often ask for advice.
I was married for around 20 years, was with xh from 16 and now divorced. Have been with MM 2.5 years and really need help to let go and move on. I know I'll get flamed for this but I love him and really need help to move on. He's only the second person I've ever let close and it's so hard to let go. No chance of NC either Sad

OP posts:
Anon2000 · 20/06/2021 11:22

Thank you @affor for understanding.

OP posts:
BootsieBarns · 20/06/2021 11:29

The reason it matters is that your relationship is based on a fantasy version of him rather than reality. You've known him a long time and he's your boss, but you only know certain aspects of him, mostly those he chooses to show you.

Being a player is irrelevant, he has shown he is capable of having a long term affair which means that he is able to compartmentalise his life, consistently lying to those closest to him, which also includes you. You cannot know if he is telling the truth as you are only in one of boxes of his life. So the uncomfortable truth is he is probably lying to you as well.

It's relevant that you see that point. You've acknowledged that he doesn't want to leave his wife, yet he is quite happy to live a life that involves the long term emotional abuse of his wife and at the very least is distressing for you. Doesn't sound like a very loveable person to be honest.

Hopingforabagofbuttons · 20/06/2021 11:41

At least you understand that he is not with you because that’s not what he wants, which is a good start.
You need to just be firm with him and tell him that from this point on you will be keeping things on a purely professional footing and that your affair has to stop now. If he has any respect for you, which is debatable given his behaviour, he will agree and you can draw a line under this. You are in a vulnerable state given your past history with ExH, he’s your boss, rather than offer you support he sees it as an opportunity to get you into bed. He sounds utterly disgusting, feel for his poor wife stuck with this worthless pig

HaplotypeK · 20/06/2021 12:06

@BootsieBarns
Being a player is irrelevant, he has shown he is capable of having a long term affair which means that he is able to compartmentalise his life, consistently lying to those closest to him, which also includes you. You cannot know if he is telling the truth as you are only in one of boxes of his life. So the uncomfortable truth is he is probably lying to you as well.It's relevant that you see that point.

Yes. You put this far far better than I did, this is what I meant.

HaplotypeK · 20/06/2021 12:07

@Anon2000

Thank you *@affor* for understanding.
She doesn't 'understand' better than anyone else. She just says what you want to hear because she's done the same things you have.
HaplotypeK · 20/06/2021 12:09

@affor
Does it make it better? No. Does it make it easier? Hell no. But the idea that everyone who has an affair is a serial liar and cheat is just stupid. And proved wrong on this site daily.

The word 'serial' is doing a lot of heavy lifting here.

I don't think it really matters if someone is a lying cheat who betrays their partner with one person or ten. Do you?

affor · 20/06/2021 12:13

@HaplotypeK

I don't think it makes it better no. But threads about affairs always tell the Ow that they're delusional and naive and he'll have done this a hundred times.

And I think that's unhelpful. Even if we're true she's a real person actually experiencing the highs and lows of this. And the lows are so low.

But usually I think it's untrue for affairs, and so telling someone to get over it as they're just a shag is useless advice.

HaplotypeK · 20/06/2021 12:25

@affor my point is that the people involved are, by definition, lying and cheating.

Whether they have done it with one person or ten makes no difference.

I wasn't advising her to get over it because it's just a shag, I was pointing out how distorted and limited her view is.

HaplotypeK · 20/06/2021 12:27

@affor meant to say, yes, the lows should indeed be low. Because it's a truly terrible thing to do. Only a sociopath wouldn't feel bad when doing a terrible thing

secondspringing · 20/06/2021 12:46

If you and his wife were lying unconscious in a burning building, it is you he would leave to burn to death.

That sounds brutal but absorbing the truth of it might help you to move on.

I am sure he does care for you, but you are not his priority, the one he makes sacrifices for and his life is organised around. You are right. There is only one reason he is still with his wife, and that is because he wants to be. He is seeing a counsellor and not a divorce solicitor for a reason.

Some-one on here put it well. Being in a relationship with a married man is being in an anti-relationship.

Anon2000 · 20/06/2021 12:58

@HaplotypeK
I was thanking affor just for understanding, I dont believe they told me what I wanted to hear. I dont believe they said it was ok in any way, because it isn't and I know that. I haven't justified anything, I just need to try and find a way to move forward even though it hurts so much. And before anyone says it, I know I'm not the one with a right to be hurting, but it doesn't change the reality of it.
I already agreed earlier that I didn't think it mattered whether he'd done this before, even though I'm sure he hasn't. But it's scary how much he can put us all in different boxes in his head. I've made this observation before.

OP posts:
HaplotypeK · 20/06/2021 13:05

What is really scary that you realise you're just in one, less important box.

And that this apparently isn't enough to put you off.

HaplotypeK · 20/06/2021 13:06

Oh and the way you 'move forward' is to stop fucking your boss. Which would be a really stupid thing to do when you're financially reliant on this job, even if he wasn't married.

secondspringing · 20/06/2021 13:12

But it's scary how much he can put us all in different boxes in his head

Married people who have affairs can all do this. He'll go straight from passionate, loving, tender and intimate sex with you, to going home and having a loving, close evening with his wife. The time he spends with you does not diminish his feelings for her. Its not unusual for the happiness he feels from being with you to spill over into a happier relationship with his wife.

What matters for you, as pp said, is that you are in the less important box.

affor · 20/06/2021 13:20

Secondspringing

Has posted two excellent posts which sim up the realities well.

It was fleshing out their life which helped me. I had out her and their family into the smaller box. But they were 90% of his day, and so it helped me to unpack and think about how much he interaction that was, how many jokes and laughs and smiles and kisses and touches.

The other thing was realising that all my favourite moments with him, he had had or was having with someone else. The cuddling, the causal touches and smiles, the waking up etc.

I also made myself feel the fact that at some point he had done with her all the things I wanted. he has told her he loved her for the first time, proposed to her, married her. Looked at her with wonder, dreamed about their future together, moved house and decorated. Decided to have children, been there at births, been in awe of her etc.

But like many things - leaving jobs, sticking with diets, going through any breakup - staying away from him won't work if you follow someone else's advice or have to be told what to do. It'll only work and last when you really mean and want it. In the meantime you just have to feel it all and grieve, like any breakup

Anon2000 · 20/06/2021 13:22

@HaplotypeK why do you think it's not enough to put me off? I'm trying to move on. You can put it as crudely as you want and I know it's what I have to do, but these are still real feelings of grief and loss to work through.

OP posts:
Scoobysdoo · 20/06/2021 13:24

That's great advice affor

Make the wife into a real person in your head instead of an abstract concept that you can't tuck away and not feel guilty about.

Scoobysdoo · 20/06/2021 13:25

*can

HaplotypeK · 20/06/2021 13:37

[quote Anon2000]@HaplotypeK why do you think it's not enough to put me off? I'm trying to move on. You can put it as crudely as you want and I know it's what I have to do, but these are still real feelings of grief and loss to work through.[/quote]
Great. Delighted to hear you're not going to fuck him any more. Good luck working through your feelings of grief and loss, hope you keep your job.

GelfBride · 20/06/2021 14:01

I think seeing him as a player is part of getting over it all to be honest OP. You wouldn't have a clue if he has done this before. Once or ten times. I've worked with loads of men that are actively having affairs behind their wives back. A lot of them don't seem the sort but they have a penis, that makes them the sort. Women do it too. It's ingrained in adult humans to do it. The smoke and mirrors and superterfuge make it seedy and unpleasant. Step out and be a better person. Part of getting better is seeing the affair as seedy.

80sPadme · 20/06/2021 20:12

@MandalaYogaTapestry

That's not an answer
It bleddy is! Why would he leave his wife when he has 2 women on the go. Wife at home with kids, probably still having sex, comfortable and secure home. OW, sneaky sex with a bit of a thrill, passion, her saying she loves/ needs/ adores him must be amazing for his ego. Why would he give that up if he can have both cakes and eat them.
MandalaYogaTapestry · 21/06/2021 18:15

@80sPadme I am assuming the OP has asked her MM why he cannot be with her. I highly doubt that he answered what you wrote about.

Hence my question - what does he say when she talks to him about it.

Elisandra · 21/06/2021 18:45

Does anyone at work know about this, OP?

Thewookiemustgo · 21/06/2021 19:26

Whether he loves you, or he loves the situation, or he just loves the shag and the ego boost are all entirely possible but this is neither here nor there. He might be a one-off cheater or a serial cheater, both exist. That is also neither here nor there. A one off cheater is no more ‘noble’ than a serial cheater. You don’t know for sure that although you might the first, you are definitely his last. You might actually be, but again, this is pretty irrelevant.
The ongoing hurt must be unbearable, agreed, but the bald truth is that the situation will go on and on, with no sign of him making his mind up about anything, until he has to. Why would he, whilst his poor wife is in the dark and you make yourself available to him whenever he wants? Why upset his wife and family when he can just carry on doing this anyway with no fallout or consequences to himself?
Neither his wife (because I presume she doesn’t know) nor you, have given him any ultimatum or impetus to change his behaviour or make a decision. He has no motive to do so himself, however much he may or may not love you, his fantasy future at present doesn’t appear to include an exclusive life with you.
So do you carry on hurting and wanting and waiting, letting him do whatever he wants, with scant regard for what you want, or do you save yourself and your mental health?
You know that you need to clearly tell him you can’t carry on like this, that it’s over, then cut all contact you can in the difficult circumstances. Limit communication to as little as possible, and no communication about anything not work-related. You know this has to happen. But you’re not yet doing it.
So, the simpler question to ask yourself is “Do I really want to move on?” You have said it goes against your own moral code, that you know how terrible it is etc, but this hasn’t motivated you to stop. These are your choices, this is not coercion or a literal inability to stop. You are choosing to carry on.
Instead of choosing to continue, giving you more long term pain, you could choose to stop, painful in the short term but better for your self esteem and mental health long term. All the advice in the world, kind or unkind, won’t stop you or give you a way out until you listen to the advice and choose to do so.
Until you really honestly do, you will carry on suffering and hand-wringing whilst he does what he likes, for as long as you let him, or until he gets bored, or until his wife finds out. He won’t decide, you need to decide for yourself how you want your future to look. Tough decision, but if you are posting on here you have clearly moved nearer to a place where you take back control of your life and stop letting circumstances (and him) dictate.
I hope you make the best decision for you, OP. Take care. X

MrsBobDylan · 21/06/2021 20:03

Not the same situation but this helped me dump a ltr which was awful -

Imagine yourself in 10 years. You have more wrinkles, you are past your fertile years. You have spent 12.5 of your prime years being a man's back up plan. All your 'memories' with him are short events when he was able to sneak away from his wife and kids. He knew you would never let his secret out or give him an ultimatum, so you were the perfect bit on the side.

As he ages his sex drive drops, he's done with sneaking about, he wants to retire and go travelling with his wife now that the kids are off to Uni/work. He leaves you older, none the wiser and completely and utter alone.

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