Should I end it before it begins?

[troobleflooble]

Been chatting to a guy online and arranged a first date for last night.

Date went wonderfully, he was interesting, great conversationalist and it seemed like we had a lot in common. He made an effort and treated me very nicely.

However, it transpired during the course of the evening that he has a young child. I had written in a previous post that I really wasn't keen to get involved in a relationship with someone with a child because I wanted to be someone's priority for once and didn't want to (eventually) help raise someone else's child or be involved (albeit indirectly) with someone's ex. I am a realist though and it's very likely that men around my age (mid thirties) are likely to have kids so I'm limiting myself to a very small pool if I only go for someone with no children. I also feel very hypocritical as I have kids myself so I'm wondering if I should reconsider the 'no kids' stance entirely.

The only other thing that came out that gives me pause is that he mentioned he is currently going through court proceedings with his ex as she keeps breaking court orders to let him see his child. He has to keep taking her back to court and paying for solicitors as he does not want to be kept from his DC. I really don't know anything else as I didn't want to pry on the first date but is this all a red flag that I should run away from?

On the one hand I feel unfair to him that I'm reconsidering even getting to know him because his situation is complicated, difficult and out of his control. My own life isn't exact easy or uncomplicated so if I expect someone to take me and my issues on then shouldn't I also expect to deal with their stuff? On the other hand I wonder if it's all too much and is a car crash waiting to happen. Should I get out now before I invest any time or emotion in him?

OP - I would just think back to the reasons you wanted to meet someone who's childfree. I don't think it would be selfish to stop this before it has even begun. His situation sounds quite tricky and fragile. Personally I would not continue with this.
Oh and don't worry they'll be someone else along before you know it :)

It depends on a few things, how young is the child? Did he end the relationship with their mother and why? Also what do you want? If you want a child-free man in his 30's, does that mean you are willing to start again with having more kids?
Men who don't want kids are not likely to want to be with someone who does have kids, so the pool would be negligible. Even if you find one, they have no understanding of your ties and responsibilities to your own children.
Not sure you are being realistic with your wants, however, this particular man has messy court dealings, so I'd give him a miss on that basis, especially if it is a recent split.

It's only been one date so not enough time to know if there are any stand out qualities that would make it all worth while.
It's tough because your date went so well, but at this stage you don't even know how serious he is. You would be better to do it now rather than down the line, he'll be thinking why did you continue when you knew everything that was going on. If kids are non negotiable for you, they're non negotiable. It would be different if you already knew him, developed feelings and you grew closer. Then, you could say you would consider looking past it. Right now, it's just a first date.

I don't want/can't have any more kids so I don't want someone who does want more. That would definitely be a deal breaker for me. I'm more flexible on pre existing kids as I understand that men in an appropriate age range for me are more likely to have them, plus I have them too so it seems hypocritical of me to insist they don't have any.

I just, for once, wanted to be someone's priority and I know if someone has a child then I can't be, ever. I will always come second. But then they will never come first for me as I have my own children! It's a difficult one but I'm willing to try for the right person.

I know virtually nothing about the situation with his ex as I didn't ask, only listened to what info he was comfortable providing at such an early stage. I get the impression, from very limited information, that he has had to fight for access right from the beginning and his ex has been very obstructive, lying, breaking court orders, etc. But he hasn't given up and keeps going back which to me says good things about his character. It's hard to call it at this stage as I know so little.

I'd really like to see him again but I'm also very wary and will proceed with extreme caution!

Personally, I would run a mile. Chances are his ex is obstructing contact for a good reason, if she even is. She may be following the guidance of a social worker or other professional.

OP would you consider aiming for men a bit older who have older kids and don't want more? I'm 36 my OH is 43... he has an 18 year old daughter already flown the nest and doesn't want more...

I think it depends what age you’re looking at in a partner. You might be limited if you want someone who doesn’t want or have children.

Did you mention in your OLD profile that you don’t want someone with kids? If so, I’d find it concerning that he ignored this boundary of yours.

Also, the acrimonious situation with the ex sounds like something you’d want to avoid getting anywhere near. But I agree with PP that when a man has to push so hard through the courts for access, it’s usually because the mother doesn’t want him to have access for good reason.

Red flags all over this one. It’s only been one date. Chuck him back.

Run a mile OP!

The fact he has issues with his ex will only cause problems in your relationship, I’ve been there and got the t shirt. My ex claimed things were amicable with his kids Mum, it was the complete opposite and a nightmare. I wish I had listened to the red flags on the first date!

He's not in a good postion for a new relationship right now tbh.

I wouldn't take him on. You'll end up as his free councellor.

Whoa. Red flags are waving.

Him having a child is a possible negative which might be just fine, but the situation with the ex is a total deal breaker.

She's either a spiteful, vindictive ex or he's a shit father, possibly abusive. Either way, all it is drama you don't want seeping in your life. Hard pass.

NEXT.

Men who talk about a 'mental' ex = red flag
Men who need to fight in court to see their kids = red flag
Men who ignore your boundaries (you not wanting to see anyone with kids) = red flag.

Going to court to try to get access to a child the spiteful / crazy / mean ex is trying to stop him 'for no good reason' is a huge red flag.

Women don't just stop men from seeing their children for no good reason.

Leaving aside this specific man I think the problem is OP that men who don't have or want children of their own may well also not want a woman who has children, or even if they are amenable to it, the reality of having someone else's children around may be something they struggle with (you only have to look at the posts by childless posters on here finding it hard to deal with their partner's children).

Of course there will be some men out there who perhaps can't have children for medical reasons, but would like to meet someone who already has children, or someone a lot older who has adult children (although those who have raised kids already may prefer a woman in the same boat or without children).

It's tricky when you're trying to meet someone, because whilst you need to be true to what you want and are comfortable with, by the same token the more you narrow the field the more you limit your options.

A few years ago a friend of mine (then late 30s, single and childless) was dating. Her goal was family life, marriage and kids. She ruled out anyone more than 5 years older or younger, and anyone with kids or who had previously been married. I did suggest to her that a man who was unmarried at 40 might well not want the same things as her, and that she might widen her search. She didn't, and did meet someone who ticked her criteria. They are now married, but they have no children as he kept delaying (and at 48 time has probably run out for her now). He's also a massive introvert, has no family or friends and so their life is very isolated which is not something she wanted either.

It's impossible to say if the outcome would have been better if she'd widened her search of course, but I suspect the guy she met was the best of a very small pool, but in a larger pool she may have ended up with more of what she wanted.

@troobleflooble

Been chatting to a guy online and arranged a first date for last night.

Date went wonderfully, he was interesting, great conversationalist and it seemed like we had a lot in common. He made an effort and treated me very nicely.

However, it transpired during the course of the evening that he has a young child. I had written in a previous post that I really wasn't keen to get involved in a relationship with someone with a child because I wanted to be someone's priority for once and didn't want to (eventually) help raise someone else's child or be involved (albeit indirectly) with someone's ex. I am a realist though and it's very likely that men around my age (mid thirties) are likely to have kids so I'm limiting myself to a very small pool if I only go for someone with no children. I also feel very hypocritical as I have kids myself so I'm wondering if I should reconsider the 'no kids' stance entirely.

The only other thing that came out that gives me pause is that he mentioned he is currently going through court proceedings with his ex as she keeps breaking court orders to let him see his child. He has to keep taking her back to court and paying for solicitors as he does not want to be kept from his DC. I really don't know anything else as I didn't want to pry on the first date but is this all a red flag that I should run away from?

On the one hand I feel unfair to him that I'm reconsidering even getting to know him because his situation is complicated, difficult and out of his control. My own life isn't exact easy or uncomplicated so if I expect someone to take me and my issues on then shouldn't I also expect to deal with their stuff? On the other hand I wonder if it's all too much and is a car crash waiting to happen. Should I get out now before I invest any time or emotion in him?

If you don't see a future with someone that has kids then don't proceed. It's not fair all round to proceed if your hearts not in it. Your position does seem a bit contradictory though, you want to be someone's priority but they won't be yours. Everyone is entitled to look for what they want obviously but you may want to consider how realistic that is as I would think possible but not likely.

I've gone via court for child access. He's making sure he sees the kids. Why this would be a red flag I'm not sure as I thought the red flag would be someone that doesn't make the effort. When it's gone via court it's usually as the parents don't get on.

Sorry, just to add:

This particular situation sounds like a lot of drama which you may well want to give a hard pass too.

Some women do make it impossible for their exs to see children. I know a couple of such situations, and the women are open about it. Equally there will be other situations where the men are authors of their own misfortune, or equally responsible for the issues.

Whatever the case if it's all too much, then step away.

I have put on my profile on other sites that I wanted someone without kids/don't want any more but we matched on Tinder and there's none of that info on there unless you specifically write it in your bio. It's quite a new profile so I haven't done that yet, so he wouldn't have known about the kids situation beforehand.

I do note that he has never called his ex crazy/manipulative/a bitch, has never called her any names at all actually, just said that she has lied.

I don't want to assume that he is actually an abusive arsehole any more that I assume she has a vendetta against him, I simply don't have enough information yet to make that kind of judgement. I have had personal experiences of several male friends and relatives where the woman was DEFINITELY the one in the wrong, 100%, and they had to fight for access. Also had my ex make up horrible lies about me which fortunately only resulted in me losing all my friends rather than getting as far as court. So I know that these things can and do happen.

I'm not saying this is the guy for me but I'm not sure I'm ready to completely write him off just from what I know so far.

I am not clear on what you view is on men with children, in you r opening post you say you would rather not but later on you say that “pre existing” children would be acceptable.

I didn’t meet DH until I was 34, I found there were plenty of men around their mid 30s without children, perhaps by 40s this would be less common. When I was in my 30s I did some OLD and had I met a man with children who had expressed a preference that a woman should not have children so that he could be my priority, I would have run a mile. So yes, I think you are being hypocritical about that, well maybe that is not the right word, but I would find it disturbing, probably worse than hypocritical.

As to this new man, well with all the court stuff, it isn’t something I could be bothered getting into and would probably choose to walk away now for that reason.

@VelvetSpoon yes this is what I'm starting to think, that I may have been too hasty in ruling out such a large chunk of potential dates just because of that. It is a bit selfish of me to want to be
Number 1 in someone's life when they won't be that in mine.

I think I'm just tired of not being treated right by partners. Sick of feeling like I'm not a priority AT ALL and being with people that make no effort for me but I suppose there a lot in between all or nothing.

@Roblox01 well this was my thinking. Usually it's a huge red flag if a man doesn't see his DC, they are always told to go to court, fight for access, do whatever they can to be there for the kids. This guy is doing that and it's still considered a red flag? Seems he can't win. I think I need to find out more before I really make my mind up.

I would run a mile from this tbh, sounds way too complicated and it's not what you really want.

Like a previous poster said you'll inevitably find it hard not to get involved if you develop feelings for him and you could end up being his counsellor. People in this situation shouldn't be dating full stop IMO, they're obviously not going to be that emotionally available for a new relationship. I can testify that I once dated a separated man going through a divorce, and that was bad enough, never mind a court order about kids is involved. I'd never do that again. This guy doesn't sound like he'd be much fun, i'd put him back and try and find another one OP.

End it NOW and please, please, please, if you have the boundary 'NO KIDS', stick to it. You don't need to justify it, it's totally acceptable to have that boundary.

I'm the same age as you, and also struggle with the decision on dating men with children. I don't have a strong "no" position against it, but I have very clear boundaries of what will not be ok for me.

The biggest line in the sand for me? A negative break up or negative/difficult custody arraignment. It becomes very complicated very quickly, and for me, I choose to cut and run before either of us are invested.

If I was in your position? I would walk away now. However, I've dated men with children previously, and it's been great - I'm still friends with my ex's ex-wife lol.

You want someone who will make you their priority but as you have kids you won't return that.

Run for the hills. The ex partner custody bs is a huge red flag. Either he is a crazy arsehole or his ex (who is his kids mum so will always be part of his life) is.

[quote troobleflooble]@VelvetSpoon yes this is what I'm starting to think, that I may have been too hasty in ruling out such a large chunk of potential dates just because of that. It is a bit selfish of me to want to be
Number 1 in someone's life when they won't be that in mine.

I think I'm just tired of not being treated right by partners. Sick of feeling like I'm not a priority AT ALL and being with people that make no effort for me but I suppose there a lot in between all or nothing.

@Roblox01 well this was my thinking. Usually it's a huge red flag if a man doesn't see his DC, they are always told to go to court, fight for access, do whatever they can to be there for the kids. This guy is doing that and it's still considered a red flag? Seems he can't win. I think I need to find out more before I really make my mind up. [/quote]
Yeah that's my point kind of damned if you do or don't.

I think if you do proceed my suggestion from my own experience of a strained relationship with ex is make sure his situation is boundaried. So that the drama can be kept away from yourself and your kids if need be. Which is basically keeping separate homes and thinking careful about blending. Might seem a bit drastic but if you look at the step parent board it's often the blending and lack of boundaries that does for situations.

If you do want to blend significantly this guy probably isn't for you unfortunately.

I think I'm just tired of not being treated right by partners. Sick of feeling like I'm not a priority AT ALL and being with people that make no effort for me but I suppose there a lot in between all or nothing

See, this just makes me think even more that your twat radar might be a bit off and needs recalibrating.

If you have a history of being treated badly by partners, there’s some work for you to do on defining and reinforcing your boundaries.

For example, you set a boundary saying you don’t want to date men with children (which is totally fair enough and within your rights to do). Yet after just one nice date, your ready to trample all over that boundary. Also, someone with stronger boundaries would hear ‘messy, bitter court battle with lying ex’ and go yeah, no thanks, not touching that with a barge pole. Yet you’re still considering this man as a decent prospect. Raise the bar a bit.

How long has it been since the end of your last relationship? How did that end? Have you done the reflection and the healing or did you jump straight back in to OLD?